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Post by dannyhill on Dec 2, 2013 12:20:32 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I am hoping to widen the channel running between two minihumbucker cavities of a LP in order to stuff more crazy wiring through from my extra switches. How on earth can this be done? The angle is too great with a long drill bit to connect from each, if I drill carefully so they meet. I cannot find a drill bit with 90º head to fit in one of the cavities to drill through. I guess they drilled this before gluing the neck in place? I know you can buy sanding/abrasive cord, or I guess fold over a pieces of rough glass paper and work it through gradually back and forth? Any other ideas? Cheers,
Danny
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Post by newey on Dec 2, 2013 23:30:31 GMT -5
My guess would be that they did it before gluing down the top veneer, but you should be able to tell from looking.
Anyway, one of those "survival" wire-cable saws might do the trick if you go slow and watch what you're cutting. The question would be if you could feed the cable through the hole after taking off the split-ring at one end of the thing (and then reattaching the ring so you can hold it to saw).
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Post by b4nj0 on Dec 3, 2013 2:26:56 GMT -5
Just a left field thought, how about changing to a cableform? Here in the UK, telephone cable is really quite small in diameter and carries 8 conductors. Also, it comes as four twisted pairs which is good for the application that you have in mind. The signal levels are so low that only a solid connection at each end is necessary due to the minute micro amperes of current. After all- pick up wire is only 42 gauge...It is a reversible mod too. There are other tiny multiway cables available with even more conductors, but 4 twisted pairs seems ample to me.
e&oe...
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 3, 2013 6:01:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments everyone. newey, the guitar has neither a cap nor veneer. @b4njo, there is the five wire neck pickup cable plus another 8 wires (3 for the 3 way selector, and 5 for treble and bass cut switches for the two pickups mounted on the back cover of the three way). Those 8 wires are currently (screened) jumper wires, about 8-10mm in diameter once taped together in a bundle. Is there a problem of cross talk between the wires when not individually screened? Cheers, Daniel
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Post by lpf3 on Dec 3, 2013 6:56:14 GMT -5
" You might be able to use a long drill bit & go through the jack hole but I think I like b4nj0"s idea of the smaller wire better.
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Post by b4nj0 on Dec 3, 2013 7:25:10 GMT -5
The cableform that I was speaking of has twisted pairs. This "in theory" means that provided the currents in each conductor of a single twisted pair are in phase and of equal magnitude, they should reject anything else. Well it seems to work OK for 'phone wiring here in the UK. I have used unused wires in a 'phone system for network wiring where I live and have not experienced any cross talk (that I'm aware of...) The downside would be having to foreshorten your present lengths of pick up connection wires. Caveat: I have not tried this- it's just a suggestion.
e&oe...
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 3, 2013 8:09:30 GMT -5
Unfortunately the jack hole is not on a suitable line, I think it would go through the bridge. I believe I need to widen the wiring cavity as the cable you speak of is more or less as thick.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 3, 2013 13:06:03 GMT -5
I also would support the thinner wire idea. I had good results using wire from an old parallel printer cable - 9 cores? Here I used it to make a single 'umbilical' from a Strat front cavity to active piezo and blender wiring in the back cavity. On an LP, ive had no trouble using three runs of 4-core shielded cable within the wiring channel. i'd gues that you could get two of these multi-cores in too. Its a screened cable, but without separation between cores. My application has a mixture of passive and active signals and I do not notice any cross talk. John
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 3, 2013 18:49:59 GMT -5
Hi John,
Thanks for that! But actually the current hole must be max 0.7cm diameter. Just enough for three shielded single wires and one shielded 4 wire, all insulated of course.
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 6, 2013 10:40:31 GMT -5
Aghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I was drilling the holes down from the neck pickup cavity into the control cavity and of course I do not have a jig for holding the guitar and the drill bit wobbles as I hold the guitar with one hand the drill with the other. So there was no way I could get the same angle into the cavity as they could, how do they do that? One went through and JUST came in and under the level where the cavity plate would lie. The other? It came out just the other side. So I now have a 1x2 cm hole to the LHS of the bottom left hand corner of the cavity cover. I could have cried. How on earth do I cover up this 'mojo'? Help!! Found a few plates of varnish which I can cover part of the filled hole with. And I was worry about a few slight shallow scratches in the varnish on the front!
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Post by newey on Dec 6, 2013 12:30:22 GMT -5
Danny, Danny, Danny . . .What are we going to do with you? We make a bunch of suggestions, and rather than try any of them, you go off all half-a88ed with a drill bit. "Drill in haste, repent at your leisure" . . .or sumpin' Cyn1 will probably be your best help on a repair. I'd suggest posting some pix of the damage so he (or others) can assess the best way to proceed. I have drilled all the way through headstocks on a couple of occasions while fitting new machine heads. Same thing- too ham-handed with the drill. I drilled the hole out a bit and fitted a slice of dowel rod, then put clearcoat over the top. The repair is still visible, but not too bad for a "down and dirty" job.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 6, 2013 15:28:35 GMT -5
Hi Newey, Thanks man! Sorry, must of confused you. The widening of wiring cavity between the pickups is still under way. Stabbing/chiselling with a screwdriver and push/pull/rub a narrow strip of 50 glass paper which is folder over once or twice over itself. No, the screw up just now happened in widening the two holes between the bridge pickup cavity and the control cavity for the switch wire bundle and two pickup wires. Actually, due to the angle I had to drill new holes. The first came out just made it under the cavity cover for the switch cavity wire bundle, the second, which as it happens was quite easy to sand wider I tried first two to drill down into, although the angle was steeper than I realised and ouch! Enclose some photos: I guess I should use a dark stained wood filler and then a dark red dyed superglue drop filling? Danny
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Post by sumgai on Dec 7, 2013 0:43:00 GMT -5
I guess I should use a dark stained wood filler and then a dark red dyed superglue drop filling? Nope. The fastest, easiest, and arguably the most cost-effective way to cover this snafu is to simply extend the shelf route over far enough to include the holes, then lay down a larger piece of plastic as the new cover plate. Purists will shy away at resale time, but the average player will take it in stride. And if yer thinkin' like a true Nut, then you'll realize that this presents a golden opportunity to enlarge the cavity itself, to hold more goodies! HTH sumgai
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Post by newey on Dec 7, 2013 8:42:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with sg- use a bigger cover plate, given that the snafu is right next to the cavity.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2013 9:23:42 GMT -5
Hi Sumgai,
Thanks for that. I didn't consider that, but then I already had to cut out two little holes in the backplate for tone cap switching, I would then have to get a sheet of pickguard material and as it probably wouldn't match the switch cavity, have to cut a new one for there with all the extra holes cut out in that plate for 3 micro switches. So, I was thinking of covering it up. Then again, maybe I could fit a momentary switch in there? Perhaps a gold cap to match the screws? Not sure I would find a matching piece of pickguard material to add a separate 'dot' there. Otherwise how to fill and paint?
Ta
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Post by ux4484 on Dec 7, 2013 9:58:07 GMT -5
WhatEVER YOU DO, put that axe in some kind of clamp when you do it! I have a Black & Decker-like workbench/vice/holder with plastic clamps that I cover with rags to keep the body stable. You might never be at this point if you had something clamping that body. Routing that edge out for a new cover is an opportunity for more damage. I would make a guide and clamp IT to the body to get the shape you want.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2013 12:12:27 GMT -5
Sure, I have no clamp/bench though. If there is ever a next time I sure will.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 8, 2013 4:32:15 GMT -5
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 8, 2013 4:34:04 GMT -5
BTW Any ideas wrt routing the wiring cavity between pickups, I've been going to and fro with the rough sand paper in a narrow strip which works well, but seems to have little effects towards the centre of the cavity. Knott? Or need to pull strip tenser?
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Post by newey on Dec 8, 2013 9:27:05 GMT -5
As for the push button switches, those are huge- .37" diameter and 1.1" long. They are also a "latching" type- click on, click off- not what you want for a kill switch. They are SPST, meaning only 2 contacts. You want a SPDT switch for this application, so that you can ground the signal to short it, not just break the hot connection.
In addition, the plastic bezel will look cheap and won't match the rest of the hardware on the guitar. So don't buy 10 of these, buy 1 of what you really need.
As for your hole widening activities, it's going to be slow going anyway you do it. I suggest taking a wire coathanger, cut a length off that you can get into the hole. Then cut a thin strip of sandpaper, like about 1/4" wide. Use the black oxide type of sandpaper that has the cloth-type backing to it. Brush some glue on the backside (or better yet, use a spray adhesive.) wrap the strip of sandpaper in a spiral fashion around the coathanger wire. Let it dry. Use that for your tool.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 8, 2013 14:39:03 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
Thanks for the info! I was thinking of running the hot to one lug and then onto the hot of the jack and on the other lug have the ground wired to the ground of the jack. Would that not work, does nothing when open and when closed shorts the hot to ground? Not sure what I can get here, but it needs either cream, gold/brass or wine red to match surrounding materials.
I will perserve with the widening. Thanks for extra ideas. This w/end has been a nightmare. Drilled through the LP and then on my import Black Beauty dropped a heavy screw driver on the laquer and cracked it. Then all my attempts on that second guitar to cover up cracked or missing laquer have ended up with little or no change but exta micro scratches requiring more work (some from razor to scrape the superglue drop filling), luckily they are in unobtrusive places. Where I dropped the screwdriver I used ink to colour the centre and then drop filled superglue. Only I took took too much off with the razor as I then rubbed away with my mesh paper the laquer down and through the paint. Nightmare! Got some fountain pen ink and found I could colour the superglue in-situ! That's a shave and rub/polish job for tomorrow! 2 hours later I realised the pickguard I bought was going to cover it, doh!
I was going to strip a house lighting neutral wire as it had snapped off in the wall fitting....I think given how things have gone, it can wait until another day. :-)
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Post by newey on Dec 8, 2013 22:18:30 GMT -5
Your method for the kill switch will work. We have debated whether one way will be more subject to noise than the other, but it may not make any real-world difference.
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 9, 2013 4:39:20 GMT -5
Hi Newey, OK, that's great. Its clear you don't like the switches I linked to from Ebay. If I can find one in Europe all the better, otherwise I will have to wait and purchase ten from China. I thought of it as its diameter is approx 1cm which is the diameter of the hole I made.
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Post by newey on Dec 9, 2013 6:11:42 GMT -5
You definitely don't want a latching switch. You want a SPDT On-(On) or On-(Off). (Switch mfrs use the parentheses to designate momentary actuation, which is what you want.)
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 9, 2013 15:36:58 GMT -5
What? Momentaries only work whilst I hold the button, latching is permanent until pressed again or flicked back? And there is no difference between SPST and SPDT according to our conversation wrt noise?
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Post by JohnH on Dec 10, 2013 2:29:07 GMT -5
Hi Danny. If you want a kill switch to shut the guitar down while you get another beer, then a latching one is good ie like any normal switch. But if its for making staccatto effects, then a momentary one can be handier. Either way, the best way electrically is to have it shunt the output to ground. Then it has to be silent.
Now back to your cavity scraping! How about a small round file?
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 10, 2013 6:26:42 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Dec 10, 2013 7:03:11 GMT -5
The first switch you linked to, the gold toggle, is fine if you want a toggle. The second is the same latching switch you first posted. The third is about the size you'd want, but the description doesn't say that it's momentary. I would assume that it, too, is a latching switch. Those prices are jacked up, too.
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Post by b4nj0 on Dec 10, 2013 8:13:21 GMT -5
Snap the file off at the required length ( which will probably be a couple of mm longer than the available space in the largest cavity.) There's nothing to stop you from filing the top of the entrance hole a little to create a lead in and hence a longer usable file length- just so long as it will remain unseen. That way you'll have less work to do along the length of the channel too. Be a good citizen and do it using a vice to grip the file safely at the required length and cover it with some rag too for the benefit of your eyes! This works better if the wanted length of file is between the vice jaws- ie, not the length of file sticking up in the air. It will only take a gentle tap with a hammer and the rag will save the face of the hammer too. If this sounds like a solution to you, whatever you do please take care and save the bits for "next time".
e&oe...
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 11, 2013 7:10:33 GMT -5
Hi all, Well, my wire saw arrived, only the rings to attach the handles to are too big to fit through the hole. So I will replace one tonight with a smaller one. Then between that and the folded/platted 5o grade sandpaper hopefully we are good. Wrt to the hole on the back, well, maybe I can patch this. I found three pieces of the tinted laquer/poly coat which would seem to cover all or almot all the whole if glued down onto some filling. What do you think? Its just I'm not really enamoured with having a kill switch and it would look a bit out of place. I have put two photos where I have placed two different pieces in the same place, not sure where each should. You wouldn't think it was that difficult, 3 piece jigsaw puzzle which fit together in some places where they haven't lost edges. Cheers, D
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