Diagram needed for 3-pickup with push/pull volumes

[tommy]

Brand new to this forum, and nice to be here. On my custom built guitar I have three single coil pickups and a 3-way toggle switch. I want to have only two volume knobs using push/pull pots to activate any and all pickups in combination. I know this is possible, but I'm just a novice at electronics. Can one of you guys help me out with a diagram? Thanks much in advance.

Tommy

[b4nj0]

Hi Tommy and welcome to the Nuts House!

First, you don't need any electronics know-how unless you propose to incorporate active circuitry ( eg: a pre amp or in other words any wiring that curls up its toes without at least a battery or cell driving it) I imagine that you don't mean that? I would suggest getting a cheap circuit ringer / buzzer / test lamp, and playing around with switch tag combinations (disconnected!) to get a feel for what is happening as you throw the switch.

Secondly, it's not possible to tell whether you meant a Gibson type on-on-on toggle switch, or a Fender type 1 or 2 pole / 3 way "knife blade" type of switch. Both are three way toggle switches, but very different from one another in what they can achieve.

Thirdly, did you mean being able to select all pick ups individually together with all of the possible combinations? Moreover, there are series and parallel combinations of pick ups, two at a time (or even all three) and also in-phase and out of phase combinations. I have to say that even with 2 pole push / pull switches, all that does sound on the face of it as being impossible to achieve.

While no one can promise a solution for whatever you may be thinking of, can you be any more specific about what you have in mind, and what hardware you already have to hand?

e&oe

[tommy]

Thanks for the welcome. To try to fill in some of the blanks, I'm using three Rick toaster pickups (single coil, one lead, one ground only), I have a Switchcraft 3-way toggle, like a Les Paul, and I'm not interested in any active circuitry. Mostly, I'd like the capability to have any two of the three pickups on at the same time, as well as being able to isolate any of the three. I don't need all three going together. No tone pot is necessary, either.

Tommy

[JohnH]

Welcome to GN2.
That is a bit of a puzzle, both electrically and functionally. Setting aside electrical details, how would you wish those switches and pots to operate to acheive the intent. Ie, what ideally would be the function of each switch?

Were it not for wanting two volume pots, I would have suggested a simple master volume and tone. Then use the toggle to select N, N+B, B. Use a push pull to switch M on in combination, in parallel. And if youd like some thicker, louder sounds, the other pp switch could put M on in series instead of parallel. But all of that does not give two volumes, nor M on its own

[reTrEaD]

Apr 27, 2014 16:10:51 GMT -5 tommy said:

I'm using three Rick toaster pickups (single coil, one lead, one ground only), I have a Switchcraft 3-way toggle, like a Les Paul,

Okay, Tommy. It sound like our starting point might be the standard Les Paul (Three-way switch, two volume, two tone controls) wiring, minus the tone controls.

Apr 27, 2014 16:10:51 GMT -5 tommy said:

Mostly, I'd like the capability to have any two of the three pickups on at the same time, as well as being able to isolate any of the three. I don't need all three going together. No tone pot is necessary, either.

The standard wiring will allow you to select the Neck alone ... Or Both at the same time ... Or the Bridge alone - via the 3-way toggle. So much for those two. Now let's consider what we need to get the other possible pairings.



Approach #1:

If we *substitute* the Middle for the Neck through the use of a push-pull switch (on the neck volume pot), that gives us ...
Middle ... Both ... Bridge - via the 3-way toggle

If we *substitute* the Middle for the Bridge through the use of the other push-pull switch (on the bridge volume pot), that gives us ...
Neck ... Both ... Middle - via the 3-way toggle

You can think of pulling either of the knobs up as putting the Middle pickup on that control.
There is one problem we need to manage. If BOTH knobs are up, we certainly don't want the Middle pickup to be assigned to both controls! This should be easy enough to solve, since each push-pull switch has two poles. With some creative wiring between the two switches, BOTH knobs up would return to the default function of the 3-way: Neck ... Both ... Bridge

So that accomplishes all the goals you defined in the beginning. Now let's look at a slightly different possibility.



Approach #2

Starting with the standard Neck ... Both ... Bridge ( as the default function of the 3-way)
- We use one of the push-pulls as a "mode" switch.
Down is normal. (in the normal position of the mode switch, the assignment push-pull has no effect)
Pulled is "enable Middle".

- The other push-pull would determine where the Middle is assigned.
For instance, when the assignment switch is down, that could be Middle assigned to the Bridge control
and up could be Middle assigned to the Neck control.
Or vice-versa. You could wire it which ever way you prefer.




Do either of these approaches interest you?




EDIT:

The wheels are always turning.  I just thought of a couple of variations on Approach #1.  Let's call this:  Who's the boss?

The BOTH knobs up condition doesn't need to return to the default of Neck ... Both ... Bridge.
We could decide before wiring which of the switches would take precedence.  (Be the "boss")
For instance, if the Neck control was the "boss", Neck knob up or BOTH knobs up would result in the middle being assigned to the Neck volume control.
Likewise we could decide before wiring to make the Bridge control the boss.

Have I confused you yet?

[newey]

RT

Alternative #1 is brilliant, quite different from the usual use of P/P. It's sort of a "dual mode switch" set up.

Regardless of what tommy may decide to do, a diagram of the Alt1 scheme belongs in Schematics.

[reTrEaD]

Thanks for the compliment.
I'm not sure if I just had another epiphany or if I've completely stripped my gears because...
Yet another possibility (I think this could work)...

Either knob pulled would assign the middle to the control that's pulled.

BOTH knobs pulled would assign the middle to one of the controls (we can decide which before wiring) along with the original pickup.

For instance: Both knobs up could have the Neck AND Middle pickups on the Neck volume control and the Bridge pickup on the Bridge volume control.

[JohnH]

ReT - I also think your no.1 idea is very good, particularly with the last suggestion where M gets put together with N when both are pulled. That way all three can be engaged.

I reckon that is the way round to do it too, rather than putting M with B in that mode. This way, you can set up B lead and quacky N+M rythym, preset on the toggle for quick selection. I think a Gibson toggle is the best of all controls for flicking quick changes. Your scheme will allow almost any possible pair of tones to be available just with the toggle.

It implies some interesting cross-wiring of the switches, but I reckon its possible and no doubt you have it worked out.

[reTrEaD]

I worked it out in my head. I'll draw it out today and see if it works.

[reTrEaD]

Here's the drawing. I used a less direct approach to pole placement in an effort to make the drawing more simple but it is still a bit convoluted. If one or two of you could proofread/vet this, that would be cool.

Design concept of the push-pulls:
At the bottom of the drawing,
1  -  the Bridge Volume push-pull selects the Bridge pickup (pushed) or defers the selection (pulled) to the Neck push-pull. 

2  -  the Neck push-pull then connects the Middle pickup (if Neck p-p pushed) or Bridge pickup (Neck p-p pulled) to the Bridge Volume

3  -  the other half of the Neck p-p connects the Neck pickup (pushed) or Middle pickup (pulled) to the Neck Volume.

4  -  the remaining half of the Bridge p-p (when pulled) forces a connection of the Neck pickup to Neck volume.

Both pushed:                 Neck pickup -> Neck volume | Bridge Pickup -> Bridge Volume
Neck control pulled:     Middle Pickup -> Neck volume | Bridge Pickup -> Bridge Volume
Bridge control pulled:     Neck Pickup -> Neck volume | Middle Pickup -> Bridge Volume
Both pulled:  Neck and Middle Pickup -> Neck volume | Bridge Pickup -> Bridge Volume

[JohnH]

Nice..seems good to me. But I think it will be easier to use than to explain what the switches do!

Lots of ways it could develop further with Strats or 3-pup Teles, or add a pair of tone pots and its good for an LP Custom.

[newey]

Looks good to me as well. Nice job!

[reTrEaD]

May 6, 2014 3:00:32 GMT -5 JohnH said:

or add a pair of tone pots and its good for an LP Custom.

3-pickup Gibsons use a unique 3-way switch to do what they do (which really isn't very interesting).  But those switches can be wired to accomplish the same function as the normal Gibson 3-way.  I agree this circuit would add a lot of choices for those guitars.  Good call.