|
Post by ashcatlt on May 13, 2015 17:06:07 GMT -5
So, this thing came up on PremierGuitar. I can see where it might almost do something, but I find the methodology in the video to be quite suspect, unscientific, and essentially meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by haydukej on May 13, 2015 21:40:41 GMT -5
Hmm, interesting. For a $60 piece of new metal, I'd like to make sure they've determined the appropriate alloy mixture and thickness to achieve maximum "benefit".
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on May 14, 2015 2:53:32 GMT -5
Just about any time you add mass to something that vibrates, the sustain of those vibrations will increase in duration, period. It does depend somewhat on the mounting methodology, of course, and there will be frequency dependencies, to be sure, but by and large.... Even so, newey will soon quote ChrisK correctly - this is FelderGarb, pure and simple. The telling point for me was this: watch Mike Miller as he does the intro and outro... he was wringing his hands like there was no tomorrow - a sure sign of insincerity, if you want my opinion*. Thanks, but I'll pass. And to 'duke: How are you gonna determine that they got it right? Are you as well qualified to make that determination? No, don't answer that just yet - you don't wanna be lumped into the same boat with this caliber of idiocy, do you? sumgai * And in case anyone wants to rebut my opinion, let me offer this: If you defend his actions with the possibility that he's got some kind of skin condition, then GTFO, as JFrank would say. There's not a sales school in the country (nor probably the whole world) that will tell you that playing with yourself during a pitch is OK. Uniformly and universally they all tell you "don't touch yourself, and most especially, don't fidget!" If you must "talk with your hands", that's not necessarily a bad thing, but don't play with any parts of your body, period. To address the unlikelyhood of a skin problem, I'd say what the Masters all say - if you can't keep your hands to themselves, then put someone else in front of the camera - don't turn off the potential customer.
|
|
|
Post by newey on May 14, 2015 4:13:23 GMT -5
I'm with ash on this, someone needs a refresher course in the scientific method- the part about controlling your test for confounding variables. They're not just testing the "T-Bone"™ against a stock Tele, they're testing the version with the brass ferrules. There are some of us who remember the "Brass Age" of guitars (autos also had a "Brass Age", but few left alive can remember that . . .maybe sg, I dunno ). I frankly heard little difference between the two demos, but I remain unconvinced that this slight difference isn't attributable to the change in ferrules, and not to the "backbone". And, there's a reason why brass nuts, ferrules, etc. quickly disappeared from the wish lists of most guitarists back in the '70s. And, to sg's point about the hands. When trying cases to a jury, I learned long ago (through reviewing video of my final arguments)to remove all the change, car keys, etc. from my pockets when trying a case to a jury, to avoid the nervous habit of playing with them. One can use the railing on the jury box as a place to put one's hands, but not at first- the box is the jury's "personal space", and they have to "invite me in" subconsciously before I dare approach that close. Until then, there's usually a podium to use as a place for one's hands. Body language does matter . . .
|
|
|
Post by haydukej on May 15, 2015 12:49:39 GMT -5
SG, my science background involves very little physics and/or metallurgy, so I would be pretty much clueless to confirm/refute any additional studies on that. I suppose I was trying to convey that I expected more in their elevator speech.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on May 15, 2015 17:48:52 GMT -5
We really need to figure out some relatively easy to DIY means of exciting a guitar string/strings in a reasonably repeatable manner.
Then, if they actually cared, they would use the exact same Tele!!! Not "exactly the same" in that it's the same model. Then they'd have to be extremely careful not to change any of the rest of the setup (neck angle, et al) as they install the thing for comparison. Then we can look at the waveforms and maybe have some useful information. This video is completely devoid of any educational content, and doesn't even come close to convincing me.
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on May 17, 2015 17:30:10 GMT -5
Well, compelling wouldn't be the first word that came to my mind. Does it have an effect. Sure, screw just about anything into the guitar that adds mass will have an effect. Is it worth $60.00? Well, not my $60.00 bucks...
Perception is reality.
C1
|
|
|
Post by JFrankParnell on May 18, 2015 0:46:08 GMT -5
You guys might be interested in this, for testing guitars, exciting the pups, etc. They have a few vids with this analyzer thing. Kinda like that 5spice thing you guys use, but 'meat-space'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 7:10:37 GMT -5
IMHO in order to measure sustain, one should measure all [21->24 frets]*[4-9 strings] of any stringed instrument, using constant setup, strings, pick, pick attack. Before and after or in many iterations over the configuration. I have yet to see this happening.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on May 18, 2015 16:41:12 GMT -5
The discussions about testing and measuring sustain are interesting. I have a couple of thoughts that will probably never get to the top of my 2do list:
A standard picking gadget
Hard to describe, but imagine guitar on its back for testing. A pick is mounted vertically at one end of a horizontal arm. The other end has a hinge to a padded block that can be placed on the guitar body. The arm has a short slot and and extending/telescopic section. The length of the slot is the extent to which the arm can extend and is the distance that a string will be plucked sideways before release. To use the contraption, place the padded block on guitar body so the pick is just contacting the string, extend the arm to end of the slot to pull the pick sideways by a consistent distance (3 or 4mm?). Then holding the block in place, raise the pick end of the arm vertically to release the string. Record to pc via a high impedance buffer. Compare trace amplitudes at the initial peaks and at times of say 0.5, 1 and 3 seconds.
Finite element modelling of guitar resonances
Just as we can model electrical response and compare results, we can model physical resonances, not so much to attempt absolute conclusions; but to gain insight into how certain changes may or may not affect results. Particularly, test things like whether adding mass to the head, or adding the 'back bone', is likley to affect response, or not. The software to do this is in daily use in any engineering design office, and key physical properties of materials such as stiffness and mass of metals and woods are known well enough. One parameter that is harder to judge is energy absorbtion by the system ie damping, which causes decay of resonance and will be less for steel than for woods. Still, even without all parameters known exactly, there might be something to learn abd nothing to lose by trying it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 22:42:39 GMT -5
John, I get the idea about energy absorption, but smth tells that there is more. In my experience when a note dies due to wood vibrations, it dies fast and in small consecutive periodical doses. This means that there is a periodical phenomenon which works its way against the string movement, feeding it with vibrations that work against its prime motion pattern. We have been over this again, IIRC. I consider your second idea to be of greater interest. Picking is not so important, other than persuading a person that is done "right". IME, if the note wants to ring, it will ring if you pick it lightly, hard, or even just tap it with the right or left hand.
|
|
|
Post by haydukej on May 28, 2015 13:03:21 GMT -5
Looks like 6 "lucky" contestants will be winners of some backbones provided by Premier. Link below if anyone is interested in potentially trying it out for free, provided you're one of the winners. I hope you get your choice of bone. Contest ends June 4th! Backbone contest*Personal disclosure: I've been entering every available guitar-related contest (a la Premier Guitar, Sweetwater, Proguitarshop, Guitar World, Reverb, AMS, TC Electronic, Carvin, etc.) religiously for the last 3 or 4 years and finally won something. A free Eminence t-shirt from Premier Guitar. It wasn't any $300 pedal or $3,000 bass rig, but I'll take it. Who doesn't love a free shirt. So I suppose there is some hope in winning these contest.
|
|
edvard
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
|
Post by edvard on Aug 15, 2015 16:42:51 GMT -5
I... just don't see how that's gonna work, brass ferrules or no. Their concept might work out if there was a "T-Bone" that went from the bridge to the headstock, to add more rigidity between nut and bridge, but then, remember the Roland G-707 guitar synth controller from the 80's? Yeah, that might work...
|
|