Blender Strat Wiring

[kaustinwright]

Hey Guys, I wanted to thank everyone in this community for helping me out with my Super 7 modifications, the guitar turned out great with all of its switching power!

I have a new project, a strat I plan on wiring with a dummy coil and  Blender mod. 
Using the Middle pickup (or bottom) tone control, to now act as a blender to bring
the middle pickup in to the circuit, and the other 2 knobs acting as master volume and tone. 
Although I do want a position for series connections between the bridge/middle and neck/middle
positions in my switch, so I can get some pseudo-hum sounds. 

So is it possible to create a scheme with these 5 positions?

pos. 1) Bridge (with option to blend in middle p'up)
pos. 2) Bypass blender with middle and bridge in series
pos. 3) Neck and Bridge (with option to blend in middle p'up)
pos. 4) bypass blender with middle and neck in series
pos. 5) Neck (with option to blend in middle p'up)

I never use the Middle P'up, only in conjunction with the others, so I have removed it from the circuit (read p.s.). 
Any help with this circuit, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

P.S.
Not sure if this sounds ridiculous, but i would like to incorporate the blender knob in positions 2 and 4, 
possibly acting to blend the neck (pos. 4) or bridge (pos. 2) pickup out of the circuit, just leaving MIDDLE by itself
when fully rolled back. that way I still have the middle p'up available, and can bring the volume down of one coil
if the series connection proves to be too loud, without using the master (and sacrificing tone) while playing live. 

[JohnH]

I think all of that can be done. So in positions 1, 3 and 5, you are blending in the M in parallel, and in 2 and 4, you have series wiring in which B or N are blended out leaving M?

You'll need two 250k no-load pots and a 250k volume pot, plus a super switch.

A slight quirk is the way the rotation of the blend pot will naturally work. From 0 to 10 on the blend pot, position 1 will work like this:

B+M (parallel) blends to B

in position 2, it will be:

M blends to MxB (series)

The other positions are similar in how they work. Ie 3 and 5 work like 1 and 4 will wotk similarly to 2.

The reason for this issue, if it is an issue, is that the low resistance end of the pot provides full blending in a parallel mix but full bypass (no blend) in a series mix.

[kaustinwright]

That setup sounds perfect! 
Thanks as always for the quick response JohnH, you are a true wiring wizard,
I can't thank you enough for being so open and ready to help us out.

A little backwards from what I was thinking, but I understand why the blending has to work that way.
I will run out and buy a super switch today, but I have 0 experience working with them, so I will definitely
need some type of schem. or diagram to work off of. I can just modify and scrape a small amount of conductive strip
from the inside of the 250k pots I have already to create a no load or true bypass pot correct?

If it's not too much to ask, I could really use a diagram to work off of. I have been trying to create my 
own, but I get frustrated from all of the moving parts, and I'm oblivious how to wire 1 pot to control all 
of the things I am trying to accomplish, especially the series connections. Also, with the super switch, I 
would still be connecting my dummy coil between the vol pot and switch correct?

so to clarify:  rolling 0 to 10
Pos. 1) Bridge/Middle in parallel (blending to just Bridge)
Pos. 2) Middle (blending Bridge in Series)
Pos. 3) Middle (Blending Neck/Bridge in parallel)
Pos. 4) Middle (Blending Neck in Series)
Pos. 5) Neck/Middle in parallel (Blending to just Neck)  

again, Thank you!

[JohnH]

I can do a hand sketch in the next couple of days. No time for neat diagrams right now but it would get you started at least.

[kaustinwright]

Absolutely, No rush or worries!
Don't spend too much time on me, just a sketch will get me flinging solder in no time, as my title suggests hahaa. 

Thanks so much for the help. Im just sick of the conventional strat wiring, and looking to get some more tones than just 5. 
but I'm pulling my hair out drawing lines on this paper, with no Idea if they'd work or not.

Anything I can do for you, just let me know. 


thanks again.

[kaustinwright]

Also, for position 3 (middle) I really want to have the Tele sound (Bridge/Neck), and the ability to bring in the middle in parallel so all 3

pups are selected, not starting with just middle and bringing them in because that removes 2 sounds that I really love.

[JohnH]

Thats all fine, it's what I thought you meant. Position 3 would be B+M+N blending to B+N all parallel

Have you had all 3 like that before? A variation that I liked on my sons Strat was B+N blending to (B+N) xM ie the M pup is brought in in series. Its a very clear but powerful sound because its impedance is only 50% more than a single but its 6db louder. Plus its humcancelling. It was the best sound we found on his inexpensive Strat. That being said, I havn't figured out how to do it on your set up, whereas what you suggested was working fine on an envelope next to my coffee cup this morning.

[kaustinwright]

That sounds perfect, with the middle position bringing in the middle pup in series with neck and bridge, I'm interested to hear the sound. If you can't figure out how to incorporate that into my blender wiring, just draw it however you think will be best. Again, do it on your time, there's no hurry on my end.

Thank you for your time!

[JohnH]

It seems like it will work. Here is a schematic sketch:



It shows the main switching with the blend pot. can you follow these? it needs a wiring diagram next (which I can do if you wish) but the schematic is a necessary first step.

The 3 series settings in positions 2, 3 and 4 can be wired to blend either to M alone or to B and or N. As shown. B+M will blend down to B, (B+N)x M with blend to B+N and NxM will blend to M. This way you get 5 sounds from the 5 way no matter where the blend pot is set.

[kaustinwright]

Jul 23, 2015 7:10:10 GMT -5 JohnH said:

The 3 series settings in positions 2, 3 and 4 can be wired to blend either to M alone or to B and or N. As shown. B+M will blend down to B, (B+N)x M with blend to B+N and NxM will blend to M. This way you get 5 sounds from the 5 way no matter where the blend pot is set.

So, basically I will have 2 positions (pos. 2 and pos. 4) that are wired in Series, but blend down to just the Middle? 

so..
 pos.        blends to                     on 10         
 1)    B+M     --->   B          (Blends Middle out)
 2)    BxM      --->   M         (Blends Bridge out)
 3)    (B+N)xM -->   B+N     (Blends Middle out)
 4)     NxM     --->   M         (Blends Neck out)
 5)     N+M    --->   N          (Blends Middle out)

a total of 9 tones with blending in between?

[JohnH]

Its good to be clear on what designs will do. This is what I have drawn:

   
Pos. 1) B   --->   B+M
Pos. 2) BxM      --->   B (or, this could be M)
Pos. 3) (B+N)xM -->   B+N
Pos. 4)  NxM     --->   M
Pos. 5)  N   --->   N+M

Youll see I suggested a change in position 2 to put B there, but it could be M again if you prefer. Also, the wiring could be done so its an easy change later. I put it that way because i find the blending range is more interesting if you fade down the bassier pickup, and maybe yoh dont need M twice?.

All as shown above are from blender at 10--->0, so see the directions that youd get as I described before. I think it is good to think about the moves that youd make to get between two sounds. Hopefully there is a good range of changes possible just with one control.

Any good?

[kaustinwright]

Jul 23, 2015 7:10:10 GMT -5 JohnH said:

This way you get 5 sounds from the 5 way no matter where the blend pot is set.

I see what you mean now, I think I would prefer 2 and 4 to both blend to just Middle. 
Though I don't see Myself using the middle too much, it will be nice to dial back the series volume
to just the middle. 

Probably a stupid question, and Ignore it if it is, but would it be possible in positions 2 and 4 to blend 
one pickup to another, so in pos.2 blend the Middle to neck in series with the bridge, and in pos. 4 
Blend the Middle to bridge in parallel with the neck, giving me B+N and BxN? and allowing the 3rd
position to blend to just middle (blending out the bridge and neck) giving me a total of 10 positions?

to be clear:
1)B+M         ->   B
2)BxM          ->   BxN  
3)(B+N)xM   ->   M
4)NxM          ->   B+N
5)N+M         ->   N

if that is impossible I will go with what I said first, 2 and 4 blending to just middle. 

Thank you

[JohnH]

Its a good idea, but is unfortunatelt not possible with the way i see it. So lets just go for blending to M in position 2 and 4. Also, please note how the direction of blending is different to how you listed it in position 1 and 5, per my last post.

[kaustinwright]

I understand now that I had it backwards, as the arrows represent rolling the blend pot to 0, rather than 10 like I was saying, so 1 and 5 were backwards. And I'm fine with position 2 and 4 to blend to just middle as well. It looks perfect.

I have modified a 250k pot to be no Load by scraping some conductive strip away at position ten (when fully rolled on), which should work right?

also, if you could draw a wiring schematic for me to follow, that would be awesome!

Thanks so much for all of the help

[JohnH]

That all seems fine. I can sketch a wiring diagram. The no-load pot sounds right, if you have a multimeter you can check that it really goes to infinite resistance at 10. You will be using the same two lugs as if it was a normal tone pot. Its definately needed for the blend pot and best to have another for the main tone pot. It will help to keep the series settings sounding clear.

[kaustinwright]

I'll be keeping an eye out for the diagram to get started, I have ordered the Super Switch online, and am waiting on delivery, so no rush. 


Could you tell me where to connect the leads of the dummy coil to the Super Switch (or show it in the diagram)
so I get Hum cancelling in every position?

[JohnH]

Ah yes the dummy coil. I had forgotten about that and hadnt figured it in. What do you have exactly?

[kaustinwright]

just 1/2 of a humbucker, with magnets and pole pieces removed. 
Wrapped in electrical and copper tape that is grounded.
3 leads coming off total, positive, negative and ground.
it was the adjustable side, so I have reason to believe it is NW/NP 

[JohnH]

My suggestion would be to reconsider whether the dummy coil is a good idea or not.

There are two issues with it, how to switch it in and out, and how it affects your tone.

The way it would theoretically be wired is in series with the other pickups, but only in certain settings and with care to get it the right way round, which would change. All of your combo settings where M is combined with B, N or B+N are already as humcancelling as they can be, so adding a dummy coil there will actually increase hum. For use with M alone, the dummy coil should be the opposite way round to when used with N, B or B+N, assuming your pickup set has a normal reverse wound reverse polarity M pickup. If you get it the wrong way round for a given setting, it will increase hum.

The extra coil adds resistance and inductance, and it will change the sound making it less clear and sparkly. Have a look at this thread:

Dummy coil experiment

He had some good and not good results:

Hooked the same coil i used for the p-90 up to my Ibanez hardtail strat today.

After much fiddling i managed to stuff it under the pickguard next to the bridge pickup, and i hooked it upto the switch to compare.

When turned on, It cancels most of the hum in the neck and bridge positions, but increases the hum in the other 3 positions.

Tonal change? In short, it takes away most of the great sounding characteristics of a fender single coil....all the sparkly single coil goodness is gone and it just makes it sound fairly flat and 'boring' for lack of a better word.
Also is just a tad quieter with dummy coil switched in.
Though i can see myself using the dummy coil when playing live or recording.....as i usually just use the neck or bridge

For this design, we already use all of the superswitch for controlling the settings. But if the dummy coil is wired into all settings without switched control it will spoil all the tones and make half of them worse hum!So, I suggest, either leave it out completely, or give it its own dedicated on/off switch (a mini-toggle, or a push-pull switch on the volume pot. It would be in line with the B and N pickups and configured to reduce hum in three case B, N and B+N (and will reduce their treble response too) You would have it switched off most of the time and for all other settings, and just engage it if you have a particular noise problem in those three cases.

[kaustinwright]

I plan to install a Peizo Ghost System to replace my current saddles, and I will be incorporating a 9v battery in the back cavity 
where the springs usually are (I will be blocking the trem), so is there any way I can use this active preamp circuit to eliminate hum?

My main concern with this strat is going to be the dreaded hum that most (stock) strats get in single coil positions, and I haven't played
strats for the longest time because of this. It drives me crazy! It blows my mind how many people put up with it saying "you can expect 
some hum, as EMI surrounds us, try moving around and stay still in the sweet spot" 

I understand now that the dummy coil can actually cause more noise depending on the selected pickup, but I don't really want to add 
any switches (other than possibly a push-push/pull) for looks, but I do want as little of that 60 cycle buzz as possible. I have shielded the previously 
shielded cavity with 3 more coats of conductive paint, and i will be lining the inside cavities with conductive adhesive copper tape as well.
I am either wrapping the coils in copper, or lining the inside of the pickup cover. I plan to add a grounded baseplate to each pickup
(thickest steel one on the bridge, like old teles, and thinner ones to the M and N pups) for maximum shielding and tonal reasons.

My understanding is that the N3 or noisless pickups available through fender have a stacked dummy coil for each pickup, so would it be 
possible to do the same with three dummy coils, one dedicated to each pup?

If there are any other ways to quiet this thing (all I have found is shielding, dummy coils/humbuckers/RWRP, proper grounds, and active circuits)
please let me know. I really don't want any hum on any audio tracks I record with it, and turning the noise filter up kills the recording tone.  

[JohnH]

I think your best easy/cheap option to try what you have in mind is the push/pull switch on the volume pot, to engage the dummy coil when you pull it. Currently you have 9 sound options (plus in between blended sounds). 5 of them are already humcancelling, and B, N, B+N and M are not. What Im suggesting would cancel most of the noise in all of those except M, which you don't usually use anyway.

A dummy coil only cancels all hum if it is precisely matched to what it is combining with, so you would expect a good reduction but not perfect.

The best easy/not-so-cheap option is to get 3 new noise-cancelling pickups.
Another is an Illtich back plate. this is a large low impedance coil that mounts o the back of eth guitar, picking up camcelling hum but with very few winds so very little tonal change. Needs extra switching to combine in in a complex design such as this

At this point, Im off the scale of what I know works and into ideas that might work.


I think there may be a way of driving a dummy coil through a small preamp to feed the ground side of a guitar circuit, providing anti hum but with very low impedance. Not tried it though.

[kaustinwright]

200 dollars for a low impedance coil assembly sounds kind of ridiculous to me, which is why I was 
fiddling with the dummy coil idea. 

If there is any way we can come up with a design to incorporate the active ground circuit, that would be amazing. 
I could possibly start another thread on this exact topic to get some help from the awesome people here. 

If not, I will purchase a push push 250k pot to switch on the dummy coil, though I might place it in the tone position, 
rather than volume. As the volume will get used quite a bit compared. 

and there's no way to get the middle to be hum-free? I know I dont use it much, but it would still be nice to say
all positions are hum-free. 

thanks again for putting up with my ignorance to some of these things, I'm starting to feel like the dummy here,
but I'm learning a ton!


music-electronics-forum.com/t26986/
don't know if this helps, but it was mentioning combining active and passive circuits with a dummy coil. 

[JohnH]

There are a few factors here:

There is some interesting info on that link. Those guys were dealing with some of the same issues, and it is clear that they needed considerable experimentation and a good deal of electronics understanding to make such things work. have you built electronic circuits with components like that before? its very important to understand them because they never work first time and you have to troubleshoot.

When you add the ghost system, will the passive magnetic pickups be fed into that too, so it all becomes an active output? If so, that can help with the tone loss caused by adding dummy coils

The switching and blending that we are talking about here is considerably more complex than any of those for which I have seen dummy coils and noise cancelling systems proposed. This means that there are too many different combinations and no remaining switch poles to control an anti-hum system. That is why we will only be able to address some of the combinations, and to engage the noise cancelling, it will need the extra switch rather than it just happening automatically.

Noise cancelling pickups, or standard pickups plus dummy coils have higher impedance output ta simple ones, which leads to a benefit from higher value pots.

I reckon you could buy a 500k log-taper push/pull pot. I was suggesting the volume control since the others were going to be no-load and it is difficult to convert a push/pull pot. But if you want to use it for a tone pot then get a standard 500k volume as well. Id also suggest a treble-bleed circuit on the volume pot, 1nF (=0.001uF = 1000pF) in parallel with 150k resistor.

If you do that, you can get something going with the passive dummy coil and test it, and you will be able to see how it affects hum and tone for the combos that it will help (B. N. B+N). Cant get it to work with M alone since it would need to be reversed and we are out of switch capacity to do that.

Then you can add it to the ghost preamp system and see if that helps.

Finally, if you wish, you could try an active circuit for the hum cancelling. But this should be a final step after everything else is understood and proven.

Is that a reasonable plan?

[kaustinwright]

I dont plan on running the passives with the ghost preamp, but if that is possible I would consider it.
possibly with the installation of this. (but I prefer not to spend money, when possible)

 www.premierguitar.com/articles/Seymour_Duncan_Introduces_Blackouts_Modular_Preamp_to_Make_Any_Pickup_Active

and here is a forum with some interesting diagrams based on this premise, david schuab has some good info here:
music-electronics-forum.com/t2358/

Essentially, all an active pup is, is a passive pup (with a lower impedance) and a buffer or "amplifier" circuit added, but I have never done this, 
so it might be best to stick with the passives, and the 9v for the ghost. 

I see what you mean by there not being enough space on the switch for anti-him circuits, so like mentioned in the above forum, there 
could be a way to tie an active circuit to the output jack or master volume, causing similar effects like an active system. 
I will install a push/pull if necessary like we were talking about to engage the dummy. 

I have already modded one 250k pot to be no load, but you were saying that both tone controls need to be no load?
I already have 2 500k log taper push pull pots left over from my super 7 scheme which are available. 
But like you said, modding these to be no load might be tricky, but ive never tried so I could be wrong. 
What do each of the values for the 3 pots need to be based on your recommendation?
Vol:500K(push pull) Tone: 250K(No Load) Blend: 250K (no load)? 
Also, have treble bleed circuits ready to wire from the last project as well. 

The active circuit sounds like it would be a great idea, but like you said, after we get all of this mess sorted,
then add it to the circuit at the end. Very interested in this idea. 

I cant thank you enough for this. 
Not a lot of people would be willing to sit down build an idea from the ground up, 
so happy to see there's people like you that are kind enough to help

[JohnH]

A quick question. The dummy coil which was half a humbucker, what is its resistance? Or, what sort of humbucker was it from? Just trying to guess how it might best match the others and which pots will be best. And what sort of singles do you have? Resistance measurements would be useful. If they are still wired in a guitar, just measure between tip and barrel of a guitar cord plugged into the jack (all knobs at max).
That assumes you have a multimeter. A cheap digital one is fine and very useful/necessary for troubleshooting.

[kaustinwright]

Resistance values (in K Ohms)

(Standard Squier Pups)
Neck & Middle: 3.61
Bridge: 3.63

(Washburn Zebra Bridge Black Bobbin)
Dummy: 4.7

[JohnH]

Your pickups seem to be very low resistance (les than I assumed), so probably not many wire winds, with strong ceramic magnets. Actually they should be quite good for series wiring. One risk is that the dummy coil may make more hum than required to cancel the main pickups. So when you have assembled it but before putting it back on the guitar, you might try it and maybe bypass the dummy coil with a resistor - need to experiment, which should be interesting.

So, for pots, you have 250k no-load for blender. Lets use one of your 500k log push/pulls to control the dummy coil switch and be the tone pot, without trying to make it no load . The volume pot, maybe a 500k, or maybe a 250k. Maybe decide that based on what you think of the tone with normal wiring. What pots does ir or did those pickups have originaly? were they 25ok or 500k and what did you think of the tone? Did it have a bridge tone control )probably not)

The difference between the 250k and 500k volume pot will be quite small, its not as if one will work and the other not. You could use the other 500k push pull if you wish.

[kaustinwright]

I could could I incorporate 2 500K push/pulls if needed in master volume and tone positions, like you were saying to reverse the winding direction of the dummy possibly. The pots that came with the guitar were all 500k log mini pots, the only issue I had with it was the hum. 500K should give me some cool sounds with the series connections as well, with the high range clarity from the larger resistance. (Does this high range clarity when increasing resistance apply for both tone and volume controls?)

I like your idea of putting a resistor (in series?) with the dummy coil to increase the impedance to match the other pups(if that is what you were suggesting when you said bypass". I'd have to find the formula and try to get it close to match, unless I do pickup surgery (which could end badly when unwrapping the delicate wire)

[JohnH]

Ok thats a plan: 2 x 500k log push pull pots to control the dummy coil switching and to be volume and tone pots. 1 x 250k log no-load blender.

The effect of a high tone pot is identical to that of a high volume pot at max, in terms of tone. It is the parallel combination that counts.

With those 2 push pulls, one will switch the dummy on and off. I suggest pulling it is 'dummy on'? Most of your combinations dont need it and may sound better without.

Now the 2nd push pull: we could use it to flip the phase of the dummy, which you may use when you use M alone. That may be the simplest to use Or,

..It could be used to flip the phase of the middle pickup instead. When you do this, it makes no difference to the sound of M alone except that the dummy coil can now cancell its hum. But it will also give you a bunch of weird thin out of phase tones in all the main combo settings. These can be fun, though I dont use them myself on my guitars. These out of phase sounds are not naturally hum cancelling, but switching on the dummy coil will help to some extent. The wiring for this option is not more complicated (though the whole thing is getting quite complex by now!)

On controlling the dummy with resistors. I was thinking of adding this in parallel. But it can only be detetmined by testing and cant be calculated., if it helps at all.

The whole dummy coil thing - it should help but it wont probably be dead quiet.

[kaustinwright]

That's brilliant, that will broaden the tonal options a ton with the middle phase reversal. I was playing today and had a great time messing with the out of phase tones on my super 7 Ibanez S that you helped me with, so no doubt I will use them.

I can't wait to wire this thing up, the Super switch came in today and all of the parts are here so I'm ready to go once I find a cap I like and decide on what resistor to place in parallel on the coil.

I understand it won't be perfect, but it's a cheap option to an expensive backplate or stacked pickups and the resistor idea is going to be very interesting across the dummy.
And with all of the shielding I am lining the cavities with, it should eliminate a ton... hopefully

Thanks again