A thread for newbs?

[genmce]

I was reflecting on my current/continuing journey with guitar wiring and wish there had been some sort of "how to" or entry point.
Perhaps a few links to encourage "easy" projects for new people to try before they dive into more complex/difficult ideas.
Maybe even some links with videos on how to solder. I learned elsewhere working on making amateur radio wire antennas.
I think - some visitors are very experienced (engineers or others) with significant background knowledge, however, some are total newbies - that don't even own a soldering iron. I think most of this information is already here, however, it is not easy to find.
Especially when a newbie does not know the term to search for.

I propose a thread/sticky called entry point for first time visitors.

Something that enumerates a basic tool kit
- soldering iron (links to cheap ones on amazon)
- VOM (links to cheap ones on amazon)
- compass! This one is one that I, now, use all the time. (I was working on a friends guitar - 3 pickup tele sss - all were the same polarity - no wonder it hummed so much!)
- electronic parts suppliers - where to get cheap super switches or dpdt on/on/ons...
-

Hum-cancellling links to theory but also practical - rules of thumb, for the person who may just want the answer to the how question.

Pickup phase testing prior to install (especially on strats - omg - I can't say how many times I have had to remove the pickguard)

Point to point testing prior to final install.

I don't know, maybe I'm just wasting this post for no reason.

I suppose - it boils down to "things I wish I knew when I started" that would have made my continuing journey smoother.
If this thread already exists then I will be embarrassed and apologize.

Thoughts?

[newey]

There are threads in our References section that cover all those topics and more, and we instruct newcomers to read there before posting. We have discussed pulling "the basics" together into a thread, to which newcomers could then be linked. But we never really followed through with that.

So, yes, it's a decent idea, and one we have had before. You are certainly welcome to try to pull the info together into a single "Primer" thread. If you have the time and inclination, have at it.

What we have found is that newbies come in two varieties: There are those who lurk for a while, peruse the threads, read the references (and read the rules . . .). These folks tend to post thoughtful inquiries, and come armed with a diagram, or at least a plan, about which they may have a few questions. Probably a larger group, however, just dives in the deep end without preparing themselves, and your "primer thread" won't reach these people. These are the threads that tend to start with something like: "I'm going on tour in a week and I've just disconnected all the wires in my guitar. . ."

[genmce]

So it has been considered...
I think I'll stand back then.

[newey]

I was serious, you should have a go if you want. Our original idea was to have something we could link to when newcomers asked basic questions, maybe sort of a FAQ thing.

But it occurs to me that this discussion should be in the coffee shop, so I'm moving it.

[cynical1]

Sept 7, 2015 14:33:16 GMT -5 newey said:

...threads that tend to start with something like: "I'm going on tour in a week and I've just disconnected all the wires in my guitar. . ."

Amen.

Most folks who come here are just starting down the path to madness that is guitar modding...or they've gutted their axe right after they called the cab to get to the gig.

I think a thread reflecting the most common opening questions would be more useful...not to mention entertaining...

As with any FAQ the most important component is when you RTFM. As newey pointed out, the Reference section is full of good information already. I think it's the knowledge gap most people who post here suffer with that makes a "Newbie" section, while informatative, about as helpful as a French phrase book with only the French words in it.

HTC1

[genmce]

Two thumbs down. Or luke warm at best.
Seems like my (all of our) time could be better spent on something else then.

This among so many other good stuff in the reference section.
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/post/41213/thread

I crawl back into my hole - never to be heard from again, at least on this point.

[sumgai]

Sept 8, 2015 11:10:31 GMT -5 genmce said:

I crawl back into my hole - never to be heard from again, at least on this point.

I take strong exception to that last point - you WILL be the point man for this exercise, make no mistake.


Here's the thing: Beyond newey's "two kinds of poster" observation is this factoid: many, many visitors here don't know that they don't know what's necessary, and they have an idea that, to them, seems simple - "just do this, and all will be right with the world".... the key word there being "just". You and I know that it ain't that simple, but none of us can expect the average visitor to understand that they will need to bone up on several disciplines, both in theoretical knowledge and in the physical arts (soldering, etc.) in order to accomplish their goals. The key, to my way of thinking, is in how we Nutz prepare them for this far-flung vista, the door to which they've only opened with a tiny toe-hold on reality. Or to put it another way, meshing their reality with ours is our first and foremost job here in The NutzHouse. If we can't get that right, then we might as well pack up and go home. IMHO, of course.

Now, with that in mind, I think c1 has it right - pointing newcomers with requests (not just general questions) to a FAQ is not a dumb idea. Certainly your list is a good starting point, and I'm equally sure that others can throw in valuable additions, but someone has to start the ball rolling. And I'm almighty certain that I just heard you volunteer to head up the committee, didn't I.

Of course we'll help you in researching things, and in assembling a useful FAQ that can be useful for anyone, not just newcomers/lurkers. But keep in mind, Google (and other search engines) send people here because they have questions, and depending on which side of the bed they got out of this morning, they may not wish to be "led to the drinking trough", if it doesn't appear to immediately answer their query. That's the sticky point in all of this discussion. So I'm electing you, as Chief Volunteer in Charge of The FAQ, to relate your experiences in how you overcame your initial trepedations here in The NutzHouse, and how you think other newcomers can be persuaded that looking at a simple FAQ isn't just a bad idea after all.

Just remember, humor can be a useful tool in this venture - I'm pretty sure you've got an ample supply of FunnyBone in your repertoire, amiright?

Good Luck!!



sumgai

[genmce]

Well
I have read a couple of threads in the reference section that appear to be what I was suggesting.
As I read them I make a couple of observations:
1. You people are awesome and generous, sharing information and leading others to their guitar modding goals.
2. You (meaning the knowledgeable/vocal members) are sometimes ruthless critics, to points that others suggest. While these are, usually, very important to the
topic at hand, they tend to turn highly technical very quickly and leave the average newb - mystified. I sometimes feel out of my depth quickly. My usual reaction is to run and hide (skip over the bit because it's over my head or distracting me from my task at hand). Now these critiques are often, totally fact based or theory driven, which is good, however... In my opinion this made it very difficult for me/ a newb, to find my/his or her way. Though I still consider myself a newbie.

Ok - so what was the point of that and how does it relate to - what you (meaning you folks) have molded into - a FAQ?

There needs to be a place for the critiques outside the actual FAQ thread. A FAQ, in my opinion, is not the place to argue about a point, it is meant to guide an individual to what they need quickly.

I digress again.

While I'm on this digression - I found an interesting link

www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/guitar-wiring-diploma-course

I suggest this FAQ have some ground rules - which is very difficult to get others to agree on.
Possibly permissions regarding posting in the FAQ - not that I want that, myself. I am happy to suggest questions and have others answer in the FAQ.
I read the link to stew Mac stuff and it is good, which is listed as something to read first.

Question 1 or 2 - Why are you here? (Not the existential question... though maybe it is) - what is wrong with my guitar, that brings me here... (Which causes the question to exist). Hmm not a very good start.
Ahem - 1. Why are you (hear) ( sorry - I use puns all day at school - kids like dumb jokes) here?
Why are you here?
Answer -
- Just curious and want more knowledge - links to reference section.
- I hate my guitar/bass, it just doesn't sound/play right.
(This is quite the rabbit hole - how to organize these questions and answers that will guide people in a certain direction)
This seems like a hierarchical FAQ starting to form.
> sub question What is wrong with how it sounds?
Answer
--It hums, I just want it to stop humming - links to possible solutions.
-- it doesn't sound good
>>sub questions -
Would you rather have a different guitar?
Have you tried new strings? Or a different set?
Have you tried a shorter (10ft) cable?
have you setup the guitar? Links to setting up
have you adjusted the pickup heights?
Are willing to look under the hood?

The car metaphor seems appropriate here, perhaps building on that?
Do you want a new car(guitar)?
Do you need new (tires) strings?
Do you need better efficiency ( shorter cable)?

...

[haydukej]

Sept 9, 2015 6:08:01 GMT -5 genmce said:

2. You (meaning the knowledgeable/vocal members) are sometimes ruthless critics...they tend to turn highly technical very quickly and leave the average newb - mystified. I sometimes feel out of my depth quickly. My usual reaction is to run and hide (skip over the bit because it's over my head or distracting me from my task at hand).

I personally approach this as an opportunity implement the often solicited practice advice of "Play with those more adept than thou". Sure, we'll probably never be as cynical as Cyn1, or an electronic savant as JohnH/SG, or avant garde as Ash, or handsome as Newey, but can gain great bits of information here and there from visiting with them in the Nut house, and maybe, just maybe...


Now for the FAQ section: As I'm more visual, my initial thought would be a linkable flow chart(s). But in practice, I don't think it would format well given the post layout.

  

[genmce]

Sept 9, 2015 10:17:13 GMT -5 haydukej said:

Sept 9, 2015 6:08:01 GMT -5 genmce said:

2. You (meaning the knowledgeable/vocal members) are sometimes ruthless critics...they tend to turn highly technical very quickly and leave the average newb - mystified. I sometimes feel out of my depth quickly. My usual reaction is to run and hide (skip over the bit because it's over my head or distracting me from my task at hand).

I personally approach this as an opportunity implement the often solicited practice advice of "Play with those more adept than thou". Sure, we'll probably never be as cynical as Cyn1, or an electronic savant as JohnH/SG, or avant garde as Ash, or handsome as Newey, but can gain great bits of information here and there from visiting with them in the Nut house, and maybe, just maybe...


Now for the FAQ section: As I'm more visual, my initial thought would be a linkable flow chart(s). But in practice, I don't think it would format well given the post layout.

  

All true - and being prompted to learn something is really good.
My choice of "ruthless" was too heavy, sorry. Forgive me, you folks have helped me several times, I appreciate it very much, I was not trying to be ungrateful.

A flow chart sounds great - or even a mind map, like freeplane.
I don't know how to get that into this forum format.
I suppose we could do some tests.

[cynical1]

The late ChrisK was at times, difficult, caustic and never gave anything away without some "audience participation". While this approach may not work for all, it taught me that if I really wanted to understand, I better develop a thicker skin and listen if I was going to learn anything from him. While you'd never guess at first glance, he was generous to a fault with his time and knowledge. His knowledge was the type the SAS used to parachute operatives in on a suicide mission behind enemy lines to steal. Those of us that have been here a while tend to keep that flame alive in some small way...well, maybe just the caustic bit...

The Internet is all about instant gratification. Unlike a library, it's seldom a place for higher learning or dedicated study with most people. This is especially true here. For every person who drifts in looking to gain knowledge and insight, or to contribute to the collective, you get 50 that just want to know where "Tab B" goes.  Most never come back once they have their answer.

My point in the previous post was that all the ReadMe and FAQ posts you can create will go by the wayside, as most of our visitors simply don't know what they don't know. They saw something, read something or heard something...and all they know is that they want it. Or they read about a dozen different options, but have no clear idea what they want...  This is why they bother to sign up and post.

While we may appear to become "too technical" too soon in these posts, there are reasons for this. Sometimes we're looking to see how much the poster understands. As with most things technical, especially if you've been doing it for a long time, you assume competency on the part of the poster. ChrisK would always rail against diagrams over schematics. That was his language which he was fluent and prolific within. I tend to rail against every problem being a nail just because the only tool you have is a hammer.

I'm not the electronics guru around here. I'm just the wood butcher. I tend to stay away from FAQs as one symptom presented may indicate multiple causes. No one here wants to send a poster down a rabbit hole. One thing you realize the longer you do this is that there is no single answer to give as there is no single question asked.

So, all that said, since SG dropped the gauntlet, I guess it's yours to pick up. Anything I can contribute to a thread like this is I will.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[genmce]

I just tried freeplane - mind mapper - to make a small test, export to html, paste here.
No dice.

Just looked at google lucid chart... flow chart maker. Does not seem to export into a format that will work here.

[Deleted]

If this isn't interactive (what you are trying to achieve), there is always plain good old screenshot. Export to PNG, post here.

[cynical1]

Yeah, ProBoards isn't famous for its user friendly interface or cutting edge functionality. Trying to do fancy stuff, or even employ standard HTML code, can be an exercise in terror.

HTC1

[newey]

or handsome as Newey,

Someone needs to get back on their meds . . .

But to genmce's point, we do tend to get technical pretty quickly, but there's a good reason for it. For the most part, all we can do is talk about a person's issue or question, as opposed to actually seeing it, so we need to write in a precise manner- vague generalities are only going to lead our intrepid newcomer down that proverbial rabbit's hole.

And, the tone of that sort of writing can be off-putting, all the nuances get squashed and it sounds or feels like we are being critical, when all we want is precision of language.

We all found our way here by different pathways. I'll never be 10% as knowledgeable on electronics as sumgai, JohnH, ashcatlt or others, nor will I ever have Cyn's woodworking skills, and I'll never be more than a journeyman guitarist. But I remember all the help I got early on here, back in 2008 or so, and all the really stupid questions I asked, so I try to be helpful to newcomers to the extent I am able to (which is usually not much).

If we are going to do some type of "basics" page, I agree with whoever said to keep it light and humorous- That alone may help to alleviate some of the "too technical" concerns. But if it keeps even one person from grabbing a soldering iron by the business end, it is worth doing.