sam6string
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Post by sam6string on May 21, 2016 11:13:46 GMT -5
I have an OLP guitar (similar to Music Man) with a humbucker bridge and 2 hb rails in the other positions, superswitch and 2 push pull pots. I would like to be able to tap the coils and also have an option to select between the middle pickup and bridge/neck with the ss in position 3. Can't seem to find any diagrams, plus I'd like not to have to drill for a mini switch. Is this possible? Thanks for your help.
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Post by newey on May 21, 2016 12:51:48 GMT -5
Sam6-
Hello and welcome to G-nutz2!
(Please don't feel slighted that you didn't get my usual 14-pt, full-color greeting, but I'm on my phone and the mobile app doesn't have those features)
Anyway, before we can address your questions, we'll need more info. First, what is the SS doing now? And, what are the push/ pull pots doing currently?
If you want to use one of the p/p pots to split coils, you will of course lose whatever it's doing at present. The same for the other p/p if you use it to toggle between N+B and M+B at position 3 on the SS.
Sent from my SM-G928V using proboards
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on May 22, 2016 16:54:15 GMT -5
Nothing is wired...a blank slate waiting for a creative wiring diagram!
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Post by newey on May 23, 2016 6:26:37 GMT -5
OK, so then here would be a game plan. One P/P pot will perform the coil-cut chores. Your choice here is, do you want to split all three pickups at once, or only 1 or 2 of them? If so, which ones? With only one P/P to work with, we can split all 3 pickups to single coil, but we can't do so and make all the SC combos be hum-cancelling. So, you should think about which combos you would want to be hum-cancelling when in split mode. For example, if N + M and M + B (with both coil-split) are both hum-cancelling, then N + B will not be. If N + B is to be hum-cancelling, then either N + M or M + B won't be. IOW, you can have two out of three, to have all combos be hum-cancelling requires more switching that a P/P pot can provide.
Second, the other P/P can be used to "toggle" between the M and N + B at position 3 of the SS. Are we to assume that the rest of the positions on the SS will be as per the usual Strat-style switching (i.e., N, N + M, M, M + B, B? ).
So, please confirm this is what you want to do before we start talking any sort of a diagram.
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on May 23, 2016 20:09:16 GMT -5
Great food for thought! I think I can do without N + M hum cancelling. The selections you show for the super switch are what I was thinking. Thanks!
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on May 28, 2016 7:42:24 GMT -5
Do you need more info than I have provided?
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Post by sumgai on May 28, 2016 12:58:47 GMT -5
sam, Do you need more info than I have provided? No, he's out looking for some salt to go with the crow he's about to eat....
With only one P/P to work with, we can split all 3 pickups to single coil... Sadly, there is no way to connect three humbuckers to a two-pole switch such that all three Hbs can be functionally tapped/split to single coil units. By that I mean, as soon as two Hbs are connected to the same pole, those two are always connected thereafter - the 5way switch will not be able to separate them. Sad, but true. Can this be solved? Well, given your current parts count, yes... if you sacrifice the desire to select either M or N + B with the other p/p switch - you'll assign that other pot to do tap/split duty for one of the three Hbs.
Can you still have both things, if you buy other parts? Yes, that can be done, easily in fact. You will need a 3P2T switch, where each pole will connect to one individual pickup - specifically, to the "series connection" junction of each pup. You can of course mount a so-called "mini toggle", they're available, cheap, and easy to work with. However, that means adding a hole to your rig, which of course is up to you as to desirability.
A Fender S1 switch is ideal for this situation. Fender does have a variety of knobs for this switch, you might be able to 'stealth' such an installation. You'll be using only 3 of the S1's 4 available poles, but that's not a real problem, as it gives you everything you want. In fact, because it replaces one of your p/p pots, there are no additional holes in your axe. These can be found on eBay, or possibly at a well-stocked guitar repair facility. Be aware, they're pricey compared to other switching solutions, so you'd better put the arm on some of your wife's butter-and-egg money before heading out to look for one.
HTH
sumgai
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on May 28, 2016 15:39:17 GMT -5
Gosh, I was a hopin there'd be a magical solution like dipping the wires in 18 year scotch. Seems the easiest thing to do will be to swap out the middle hb for a single coil, then life is easy. Do you have a diagram on the shelf for that?
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Post by sumgai on May 28, 2016 18:39:30 GMT -5
sam,
Gosh, I was a hopin there'd be a magical solution like dipping the wires in 18 year scotch. Seems the easiest thing to do will be to swap out the middle hb for a single coil, then life is easy. Do you have a diagram on the shelf for that? Here, try this, it's not exactly what you were asking for, but it's pretty close:
That comes from a thread that metamorphosed a couple of times, so you might want to read the whole thing:
dragonfyre's HSH odyssey
If that's not good enough, fine, we'll modify it to suit your needs.
HTH
sumgai
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on Jun 1, 2016 12:08:08 GMT -5
I finally got it soldered (rookie is appropriate description) and there are some very cool tones! One question...is it possible to have the dual hb's on the same side of the push pull pot as the bridge and neck hb's? Not a huge deal, just more to remember for a feeble mind. Thanks!
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Post by sumgai on Jun 2, 2016 2:43:45 GMT -5
Sammy, One question...is it possible to have the dual hb's on the same side of the push pull pot as the bridge and neck hb's?
Yes, and rather easily, too. We'll move one wire, and swap two others, like so:
a) See that purple wire from coil A? It goes to position 3 on the far right Superswitch deck, yes? Move that wire to position three on the same pole where the black wire from coil C goes to positions 2 & 4.
b) Swap the two wires on the left side of the DPDT - black for purple and purple for black. (EDIT: you might see the purple wire as gray. See newey's question below.)
c) Leave all other wires as is, no further mods.
d) Profit!
I personally like this mod. As you say, one should be able to get the three standard full Hb tones without having to flip any switches, that's my thought.
You can now use that second p/p for something like phase reversal, if you wish.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by newey on Jun 2, 2016 4:04:08 GMT -5
sg- "Purple" wire? You lost me there . . .
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Post by sumgai on Jun 2, 2016 10:06:17 GMT -5
On my 'puter, the "hot" wires from coils A & D both appear to be purple in color. If others are not getting the same results, then it's time to get my eyes recalibrated!
Stated another way, the "hot" lead connected to coil A is moved to the left by two decks (or poles, if you wish), still in position 3. Coil D's "hot" lead is moved from the upper terminal on the left side of the DPDT, to the lower terminal. But some people like wire colors, so that was the route I took ....
HTH
sumgai
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Post by newey on Jun 2, 2016 16:29:25 GMT -5
Got it now, they show up as grayish on my laptop and on my PC both.
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on Jun 3, 2016 8:44:48 GMT -5
That was easy enough. Everything works as spec'd by testing with a screwdriver, but the dual hb option sounds strange. Its almost like its out of phase. The individual hb's are fat like they should be but both together sounds thin, like the single poles. Any thoughts on that?
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Post by sumgai on Jun 3, 2016 15:15:10 GMT -5
That was easy enough. Everything works as spec'd by testing with a screwdriver, but the dual hb option sounds strange. Its almost like its out of phase. The individual hb's are fat like they should be but both together sounds thin, like the single poles. Any thoughts on that?
Before I/we go any further, are you getting this "thinness" only while testing with a screwdriver? You haven't strung it up and played it?
Your results (and confusion) are normal. Two pups connected in parallel tend to strengthen the higher frequencies, and somewhat weaken the lower freqs. If all four coils are sounding out at approximately the same volume level when you tap them, then I'd have to suggest that you wait until stringing it up and playing it, before you start messing with the wiring.
HTH
sumgai
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on Jun 3, 2016 15:53:01 GMT -5
Sorry I wasn't clear. The thin sound is while playing.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 4, 2016 1:15:21 GMT -5
sammy,
OK, that's one step accomplished....
Thinness is often the result of one of two things:
First up would be the fact that most of the time when two pups when connected in parallel, they tend to emphasize the upper frequencies, and tend to reduce the lower frequencies, somewhat. Poor tone could be exacerbated by an imbalance between the two, one being much closer to the strings than the other, if they're the same model - otherwise two different models might have different sensitivities, which would also require some manual height adjustment to obtain a good balance.
The other possible culprit is that one of the pups actually is out of phase with the other. The easy test for this is to simply swap one of the pickup's hot and ground wires. For Hb pickups, this shouldn't cause much increase in hum, but with single coil jobbies, it will definitely raise the noise level. Meanwhile, the thinness should go away, if it was indeed an OoP problem.
However, if swapping the wires restores the tone to the desired fullness, then one has to wonder if the pickups themselves are wired correctly, internally speaking. By that I mean, does the so-called North coil Start actually have the correct color wire attached, according to the manufacturer's spec? Sometimes things go bump in the night at the factory, so it never hurts to check the easy stuff like this.
Summary: if neither wire swapping nor height adjustment (balance) works, then I'd be hesitant to offer any further advice. We might have to bring in some experts on this one.
HTH
sumgai
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sam6string
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Post by sam6string on Jun 7, 2016 7:59:56 GMT -5
To quote a famous intellectual: 'DOH!' It was phase. Thanks for all your help!
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