edvard
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Post by edvard on Jun 26, 2016 18:24:54 GMT -5
We got a shipment of copy paper where I work, and after it was put away I went to put the pallets out for the recyclers. One of them was particularly heavy, so out of curiosity I tried denting the edge of the wood with my thumbnail (totally un-professional back-lot hardware store wood hardness test) and it wouldn't mark at all. I got excited and asked my boss if I could take this one home. After a blank stare and a raised eyebrow, she said "Yes..." I took the nails out (damn those screw nails...) so I could take it in pieces in my car, and took a good look when I got home. It's typical pallet pieces, 3 supports running lengthwise with fork slots cut out and some cross-way slats on top and bottom. All the pieces were VERY rough cut (typical for pallets) but all were very heavy for their size, dense and hard. All in all, I have some body pieces that would be great candidates for doing a stacked slab when I can find another pallet like it (too thin for an edge-glued body), and slats that are wide and flat enough to make a real nice top piece for my pine body experiments. The supports and the narrower slats looked a lot like the kind of wood they make paneling out of. Nice cream color with some streaks of open-pored grain. Planing the rough out and sanding from 60 - 200 grit makes it mirror-smooth: Before: After: The wider slat pieces came in two varieties; a light off-white to cream color with long, smooth grain, almost like pecan (but probably not), and a couple pieces that were very warped, bumpy, and with curly edges (useless for what I need), but were a yellowy cream color with some very pretty grain that was almost quilted in spots. Flat piece before (this one had a nasty split, so it was safe to experiment on): After: Warpy piece before: After: So, what do you guys think this stuff may be? I realize trying to identify wood by grain is like trying to identify a rock by it's color, but I don't think it's anything exotic.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 26, 2016 18:57:33 GMT -5
eddy,
That first one looks like either cherry or purple heart. The second two are either maple or cottonwood. Maple being a fairly expensive wood, I can believe it was cast into the 'pallet-able' pile, due to extremely ignorant drying procedures. More likely they are cottonwood, which looks a lot like maple, but tends to act like wood is not supposed to be straight. In my neck of the woods, we don't even consider it to be good firewood.
HTH
sumgai
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jun 27, 2016 0:21:55 GMT -5
After looking up a few things on the interwebs, I disagree with your first evaluation of Cherry or Purpleheart. Check out this image of White Oak: American White Oak grain close upThat matches exactly what I'm seeing in the support pieces, what with ring pores concentrated at the grain lines, and lots of longer, more open pores evenly distributed throughout the rest of the piece. As for the Maple or Cottonwood, I think you're spot on, but it looks like I have an assortment of both. I have 5 slats that are flat with long grain, a couple have some bad rotted-out knots at the ends (thankfully), two still have bark on the edges, and the fifth has that big split you see in the picture. Those may actually be maple, and thankfully they are still wide enough to be usable as they are quite flat, and even if I cut out the nail hole sections and knots, I still have 18-20 inch lengths. The two curly pieces... yeah, it's like the wood forgot how to straight.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 27, 2016 15:08:52 GMT -5
ed,
Yeah, from one image it's probably not the best idea to attemp a positive ID.
It does look a bit like Oak, but the color is all wrong, at least on my screen. White Oak? Well, maybe, but again, it's a color thing, more than anything else.
In many parts of the US, wood is wood is wood, meaning that whatever came down is what gets used, for whatever reason comes to hand. Finding Oak or Maple used in a pallet is not hard to imagine. Here in the Pacific Northwest, Oak furniture goes for an unGawdly amount of money, even more than Cherry or burled Maple. But back in the Midwest, where my frau grew up, Oak is nothing more than common firewood. If only I had a semi, and a CDL....
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Jun 27, 2016 19:22:10 GMT -5
The first piece is red oak...and a very nice piece to boot. As sumgai pointed out, in the midwest oak is prime firewood. It is also very hard and if dried to 12% moisture or less very stable. The graining is similar to swamp ash in that you'll need copious amounts of grain filler if you want to preserve the wood gran AND have a mirror smooth finish. IMHO, the only things keeping oak from being used as tops in guitars is the deep grain patterns and the end grain. Sorry, but oak has some of the most miserable end grain of any wood I've ever used.
However, if you're looking to use it on a painted body, a 5/16" or 3/8" top will give you all the the benefits of maple without breaking the bank. I've used oak to fill trem-leo cavities for years and it worked like a charm. Going any heavier then 1/2" will add some serious weight to your build...but it'll never neck dive on you...
The other two pieces do look like a bit like maple, but I doubt anyone paid for maple to build a pallet. My guess is it's white oak, but from the crotch of the tree. Contrary to popular belief, depending on where the oak tree grew and how much wind and nasty weather it encountered as a young tree, you will see figuring very similar to maple. If you quarter saw figured white oak you will have some of the prettiest wood that ever turned out to be firewood.
The fastest way to tell maple from oak is to hit it with a wet sponge. Let it dry overnight. If it's maple there will be a slight raising of the grain. If the grain becomes craters and valleys, it's oak.
If it were me, I'd try and use the figured oak pieces as a top, then just do a grain fill on the ends and paint a burst on the sides into the top to expose the top grain. By coating the end grain no one will guess what you used.
Oak will take oil based stains well if you use a pre-stain. (Avoid water based stains on oak because it'll raise the grain too much for my tastes) It might wind up looking like a waterbed from the 70's without a prestain. Oak takes wood dye better and if you use denatured alcohol instead of water to mix the dye as you wont get any grain raising. Amber dye on quartersawn crotch oak can be something beautiful.
Since you've already sanded it, let it sit in a dry place for the summer. Evenly support it with air allowed to all sides. Look for twisting and warping. If it's still flat and straight in September you should be able to use it for whatever project strikes your fancy. If it does twist, give it a year for every inch of thickness to dry, then plane it slowly back to flat.
Very nice find, indeed.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jul 2, 2016 20:54:23 GMT -5
Yeah, from one image it's probably not the best idea to attempt a positive ID. It does look a bit like Oak, but the color is all wrong, at least on my screen. Also, I can't vouch for the color accuracy of my phone's camera either, so... Also a PNW native, I know what you're talking about. We're swimming in Pines, Firs, and other evergreens, but not so much the sturdier stuff. According to this publication: (click for pdf) the most plentiful and useful we have are Bigleaf Maple and Red Alder, but I'd love to score some of either at a non-heart-attack-inducing price. Local harvest doesn't make it economical, apparently. Another reason to be eyeing Poplar for my eventual hardwood build; it's still relatively inexpensive. The first piece is red oak...and a very nice piece to boot. As sumgai pointed out, in the midwest oak is prime firewood. It is also very hard and if dried to 12% moisture or less very stable. The graining is similar to swamp ash in that you'll need copious amounts of grain filler if you want to preserve the wood gran AND have a mirror smooth finish. IMHO, the only things keeping oak from being used as tops in guitars is the deep grain patterns and the end grain. Sorry, but oak has some of the most miserable end grain of any wood I've ever used. After cutting and planing a few pieces, I notice the sawdust is a definite reddish-brown, so Red Oak makes sense. I've been looking up non-water-based fillers (because Oak) at my local hardware and lumber suppliers, but haven't gotten very far. What would you recommend for grain filler? I've been cutting and sanding some of the flatter pieces and planning out how I'm going to approach this build. They all look to be about 1/2" that will probably plane down to 3/8" easy. The two warpy pieces have the nicest grain, but I don't think they'll plane out to anything usable; seriously, they are bumpy as a dirt road after a hard winter; your description of "craters and valleys" was apt. Good thing the other pieces are still flat... I never was one for sunburst finishes, and am quite happy with a spanky-looking paint job, so wood that doesn't need to be exposed is perfect. Another thing I noticed is the smell... after cutting a few pieces, my shop smells like wet dog. Compared to the roasty-sweetness of fresh-cut pine, it's quite unpleasant.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 4, 2016 1:58:59 GMT -5
There are quite a few different grain fillers out there. The problem with deeply grained wood is that the silica sand in the grain filler can take on a cloudy appearance due to the amount of grain filler required to level the finish.
Since you're going to paint the entire guitar I would suggest saving the money on expensive grain fillers. Some good wood putty will perform the same task for quite a bit less. You can go with epoxy wood filler, but that's a bit of overkill...not to mention it's a lot tougher to sand flat again.
You can use a putty knife, but I've always found a credit card works better on large surfaces...plus it eliminates the possibility of the metal edge leaving a score mark. Spread it as thin as you can with the card and just sand it flat once it fully dries\cures. Wipe the dried\cured surface with mineral spirits after sanding and hold it at an angle to a light to check for flatness. Repeat as necessary. Several light coats are better than one sloppy coat.
Yeah, oak does have a tendency smell like old socks sometimes when you're working it. The more excessive the smell would suggest that the wood is not completely dry, or it has been soaked recently...but it still has a distinct smell even when fully dried. Take heart, it normally smells better than most exotic rain forest hardwoods and won't aggravate your skin or lungs as much either when working it.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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