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Post by ozboomer on Jul 1, 2016 7:14:25 GMT -5
Hi, all... Something I haven't found in our NutzHouse when using the various 'Search'es.. is something I don't recall actively thinking about very much.. but would expect is fairly important(!)... Here's the view from the neck looking toward the bridge on one of my Strat guitars with an SSS single coil pickup configuration:- (...please ignore the woeful vertical alignment of the saddles!...) You'll notice the "lowest" pickup poles are under the high E / B strings. Now, I remember reading something about how we had a "wound" G string "back in the day", rather than the "plain" G string we generally use these days... and the stagger was introduced to compensate for the greater loudness/boominess of the wound G string. This would seem to be borne out by the lower pole for the low E string as well... ...but I wonder if it is also detrimental to the brightness of the high E / B strings? As most would remember from my previous postings and discussions, I can never get too much brightness out of my guitars (ice-pick is gorgeous? Hmmm.. maybe not THAT much(!))... so perhaps I should try running the pickups rotated by 180 degrees...? In fact, what IS the "correct" (classic, manufacturer's, preferred) orientation of a single coil pickup with staggered poles? Will it make a subtle/extreme difference to the sound? If you have the orientation "incorrect", will it affect whether you can even get the vintage "quack" or other "Strat-esque" sounds? If we use a "flat" profile of pole heights, are we more/less likely to capture the vintage Strat sounds? Curiosity is on his way to knocking-off THIS cat... John |
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Post by newey on Jul 1, 2016 10:45:51 GMT -5
As I recall (and I'm sure to be corrected if I'm wrong), the original '50s-era Strats had pole pieces all the same, and the staggered versions came later. There are many variations on the staggered ones as well, as different manufacturers tried out different strategies to find that magic mojo.
The only sure guide to which way the pickup should be mounted (at least, as the mfr. recommends it) is to mount the pickups with the wires coming out towards the control cavity, rather than pointing upwards, away from the cavity.
But, assuming I'm right about the original Strat pickups, the stagger presumably matters not at all to the vintage "quack".
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Post by newey on Jul 1, 2016 10:56:02 GMT -5
This is a 1961 version. It would appear that the D and G poles are slightly elevated compared with the others, so not truly "staggered" as in Oz's photo, but not whooly flat either, so I guess I need to correct my statement above. Elevating the D and G is (presumably) just to sort-of match the arc of the strings over the bridge, not because of the wound G.  |
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Post by sumgai on Jul 1, 2016 13:41:26 GMT -5
^^^^ I wouldn't be so quick to take someone's word for it that the above Strat was indeed made in 1961. If the body and/or neck are truly vintage '61, fine, but all the rest of the parts have been replaced. Come on, after 55 years, does anyone truly believe there'd be no rust from sweat, and no discoloration of the plastic parts? Really? 
And if that's the case, as I suspect, then who's to say the pickups are original from that year?
One need only recall that back then, Fender guitars were sold retail with 11's or even 12's on them, usually designated as set number F50. In those sets, the G string was a wound 18 or 20. Now, as a matter of course, these were all made of nickel and steel, which is not a particularly powerful string, magnetics-wise, but they sounded great. Thus, the tiny diameter G string needed help - the pole for that string was raised, not lowered. In later years, as string formulas changed, and as string diameters were reduced, the pole piece was lowered back to re-balance the sensitivity response.
There ya go, HTH!
sumgai
p.s. Just because this is Ozboomer talkin' here, I'm gonna add a dash more history.
Historically, the Jazzmaster pickups were never staggered. That's because they shipped with flatwound strings, 12's or 13's if I recall correctly. Those were set number F250, I'm pretty sure, and they had 20 or 22 gauge wound G strings. That was "powerful" enough for a reasonably balanced output, and even now, with today's tendency towards lighter gauges and plain G strings, the pole pieces are still straight across, or staggered only to fit the arc of the neck-and-bridge saddles.
More on this particular topic..... There is also a component to "balanced output" that many players forget, and that is "touch". If a player learns by copying his/her favorite recording, and never obtains the advantage of a teacher, then he or she will likely pound on the strings for all they're he's worth... that's a bad habit, no matter who says what. But well-taught players, or those with massive patience for experimenting on themselves, will tailor their playing to the needs of the tune/song. And that's where we encounter finger picking, with or without picks, plastic picks, metal ones... the list goes on for a long ways. And that was before we got to what kind of guitar and what kind of strings are in use at the moment. Geez Louise, there are more variables right here in this one topic than the rest of The NutzHouse has encountered in the last 10 years!
No wonder that Roland, since they brought out the VG-8 and the GR-30, have included the 'Touch' parameter in how to set up their gear. In the latest version (the GR-55), we also get a 'Nuance' parameter, which in turn lets one change things "on the fly", merely by picking on the string at a different location. Yes, you read that correctly: by picking over the Bridge pickup or over the Neck pickup, I can make the unit produce different sounds, or just change a parameter (turn on distortion, turn off reverb, you get the idea), or send a MIDI signal to some other device down the chain. Pretty nifty, eh? 
HTAH
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Post by JohnH on Jul 1, 2016 15:38:19 GMT -5
I have some 'Texas Specials' on my Strat, which come staggered. The G poles were very high, and the B's are low. It doesn't seem to make much sense with a modern set-up, so I pushed the G's down a little and it sounds more even now.
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Post by ozboomer on Jul 8, 2016 0:36:43 GMT -5
I have some 'Texas Specials' on my Strat, which come staggered. The G poles were very high, and the B's are low. It doesn't seem to make much sense with a modern set-up, so I pushed the G's down a little and it sounds more even now. ...and how did the bobbin, etc react to the forces of pushing-down the poles? It didn't break apart or anything? Perhaps it would be prudent to ask the manufacturer about whether they fix the poles (with glue, etc) in the pickups before I start using a vice on them (I doubt it would be a good idea to bash the poles with a hammer or something(!)) John |
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Post by ozboomer on Jul 8, 2016 0:41:02 GMT -5
A few more thoughts from various folk about the question:- So, it would seem with a flatter radius neck, there might be an argument to have flat pole pieces... Although, I venture to say that like a lot of these factors, the effect may be rather subtle... Fanx! for your thoughts... John
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