One very simple Strat mod?

[marshall]

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere - couldn't find it if so. Tons of complex wiring schemes, but none I could find that offers just the one mod of a standard 5-way strat to replace the middle pickup only position with Bridge + Neck instead.

Is this possible/realistic? Anyone have a schematic/diagram of such a thing if so ? My ideal would be to use no switching to achieve this beyond the standard 5-way blade. Only other ideal is a rear tone knob for bridge only (other tone for neck/middle) using Fender's no load tone pots. Otherwise, all stock wiring.?

Cheers all
marshall

[newey]

Marshall

Sorry, but I had to move your thread out of "Schematics".

You can't have N + Br with a regular Strat switch, at least not with the other positions remaining as per std. Strat switching. That's because a 5-way switch isn't really a 5-way switch, in the sense that not all 5 positions are independently wire-able. It's really a 3-way switch with two "in-between" positions.

If you want the N + Br setting with a regular 5-way, the closest you can come is by just rewiring the switch so as to swap the positions of the middle pickup with the neck (or, conversely, swap the middle with the bridge). This will then give you the following 5 positions:

1) Br
2) Br + N
3) N
4) N + M
5) M

So, you lose the Br + M setting, and the switching becomes all illogical and wonky.

Or, if you swap the bridge pickup instead:

1) M
2) M + Br
3) Br
4) Br + N
5) N

Thus losing instead the N + M. (I personally couldn't live without N + M)

A better solution (IMHO . . .) is to just add a P/P pot to act as a "neck on" switch, thereby giving you the neck in conjunction with whatever is selected on the 5-way switch. This gives you the N + Br at position #1, and also adds the "all three" setting, i.e., N + M + Br, at position 2. If you don't want to add the switch, you can use one of the tone pots as a "free neck on" switch. This type of mod uses a tone pot to add the neck pickup at "10", then acts as a regular tone knob below about "9".

[ashcatlt]

What he said.

There are 5-way blade switches that will let you get N+M in position 3 while leaving the others standard. They're just a little more expensive than the standard ones. I'm not the one to tell you where to find them, though.

The tone thing is likely easy, but will depend a bit on what you end up doing about the pickups. I suppose it's worth noting, though, that all of the T pots on a strat are really Master tone pots which affect all active pickups when they're active. That does sometimes mean that they both act and interact at the same time.

[reTrEaD]

Oct 13, 2016 20:59:39 GMT -5 newey said:

If you don't want to add the switch, you can use one of the tone pots as a "free neck on" switch. This type of mod uses a tone pot to add the neck pickup at "10", then acts as a regular tone knob below about "9".

I would suggest a slightly different approach. Use one of the tone pots as a master tone. Repurpose the other pot as a "blend" between Neck and Bridge. At "10" the pot would have minimal effect. (and a no-load pot could be used to accomplish NO effect at "10")

In the Neck or Neck and Middle position, dialing that pot down would gradually introduce the Bridge to the equation. When the pot is dialed down to minimum, the Bridge would be fully connected.

The same occurs at the Bridge or Bridge and Middle position. Except that now the Neck it being added.

Imho, this is a wonderful no-bucks (or low-bucks in the case of a no-load pot) modification.

And since I think multiple tone pots is rather useless, nothing is lost. However, Marshall might not feel the same way.

[marshall]

Aha! just checked back in again after reading newey's and ashcatit's posts on this a couple of days ago and wandering off to do some reading up on their suggestions.

Finished reading about the blend option somewhere, returned here to ask for further opinions on that idea to find reTrEaD's post! So big TY reTrEaD, and to you newey/ashcatit! As reTrEaD said, "..this is a wonderful no-bucks (or low-bucks in the case of a no-load pot) modification.."...the more I think about it the more I like the simplicity of this solution, and since I already sourced the no-loads, I reckon this is the way I'll go. Hopefully shouldn't take long either, so will report back with results

Cheers for now guys
marshall

[numpty]

This is a mod I have been trying to figure out as well. There was a thread on the standard switch having a neck/bridge series in the middle position, which was a brilliant solution, but I wanted the same as the op. I put a master tone on all my mods and this leaves a tone pot spare so I have wired a parallel blend in one and a series blend in another. I also have used PTB systems in a couple. I have one strat that I wired a bridge-on into which I keep going back to as my favourite strat as it gives me the seven-way PLUS I wired it in such a way that when I use the bridge on it's own I have two modes. With the switch up/off, it is totally standard with no tone control, with switch engaged I get a bridge tone. I call this a seven and a half way and it is very useful as I can get an extra setting on bridge alone when I can flick from a muted bridge setting to a higher output, brighter setting instantly. I have also been mulling over getting a "tele" 4-way and filing the in-between notches to achieve a seven-way switch, but haven't yet done so. Bridge-on is a really cool twist over neck on as it gives me two separate settings for my bridge pickup and this is way better for me personally as I tend to avoid a bridge with no tone control for reasons of shrill-ness. I like having the option of an extra knob that master tone gives, it allows a lot of options for personalisation.

[newey]

I have also been mulling over getting a "tele" 4-way and filing the in-between notches to achieve a seven-way switch

I have never heard of anyone doing that, and I'm not sure it's possible. The Tele 4-way "Baja" switch is a very different animal than the regular Strat 3-way/5-way switch. For starters, one reason that it works on the 3-way is that it is a type of switch known as a "make before break" switch; not sure if the Tele switch is also make-before-break.

[reTrEaD]

not sure if the Tele switch is also make-before-break.

Good post, Newey.

This is the first of three hurdles. And it's a crucial one. I would guess the 4-way switch is a make before break but that is absolutely not a guarantee. Verifying this is a must.

The early Stratocasters used the identical 3-way wafer switch as the Telecaster. Only one pickup at a time could be selected. At first, when people recognized the make-before-break function, they would jam a toothpick between the lever and the slot to hold the lever in an in-between position to get N+M or M+B. Clumsy, but it did accomplish a very desirable goal. Later, some clever individual filed notches in the detent mechanism. Later still, a new detent mechanism was created.

Worth noting at this point: There is a 60 degree sweep from end to end on these switches.
3 positions = 30 degrees between positions.
5 positions = 15 degrees between positions. (this tends to be just slightly fussy)
4 positions = 20 degrees between positions.
7 positions = 10 degrees between positions. Yikes!





Second hurdle - Filing the notches. There will be less "meat" on the bumps of a 4-way switch than on a 3-way. More care will be necessary when filing, to leave enough behind that the switch stays in the desired positions.




Third hurdle - Figuring out what to do with this thing. It's easy enough to make a duplicate position at one end of the switch. That allows for N+B at the adjacent position. But that's just one added sound for all the effort of modifying a switch and putting up with a fussy mechanism. If someone can come up with a way to also add "all three pickups", it might be worth the effort. Maybe. Else, it seems a ton of work for getting one extra combination from a switch that's destined to be more difficult to operate. JMO.

[sumgai]

The so-called 'Baja' switch (for the Telecaster Baja model) is a 2P4T unit that breaks before it makes. This is true for any wafer-style switch with a separate terminal for each position.  In the original design (since the days of the Broadcaster), it was make-before-break due to the needs of the US Army, said switch being designed for field telephones in mobil HQ setups.  I won't go into the why's and wherefore's, that's all ancient history (of which I am also....), but the net result is, it was just the ticket for Leo back in 1949-1950, when he was plying the alleys and byways of military surplus stores, looking for cheap parts with which he was familiar.  (Remember, he served in the Army during WWII.)  And he saw no reason to mess with a good thing, when it came time to mock up was to become the Stratocaster.

Fast forward to the mid 60s.... By now, several players of note had found and used (on recordings) the infamous Quack positions, almost all to good effect.  And that's where reTrEaD's short history lesson comes in.

But now, we want to file notches on a Baja switch for extra positions?   I don't think so.  That "tab" on the switch armature (the part that moves) isn't big enough to stretch between adjacent terminals, thus the break-before-make, as described above.  Hence the idea is a non-starter from the word Go, sorry to say.

In order to satisfy Marshall's original request, i.e. obtaining N + B from a standard Strat/Tele switch without any other mods to the axe, one has to swap either the Neck or the Bridge connections with the Middle pup, that's it.  Simple, to be sure, but it's quick, cheap and reversible.  Any other method involves more work, possibly more expense, and more fiddly-fiddly in order to engage the desired combination.  (Though I'll easily admit, a separate mini-toggle for Neck-always-on is a good alternative for most players.)

HTH

sumgai

[marshall]

Sorry to take so long to report back here on this one folks, life intervenes, you know how it goes!

So I finally got round to doing this today with a set of custom pickups purchased here Wuddy's 5060s

I used a CTS TVT 250k pot for the volume, and 2 x Fender blender pots, 1 for the master tone , the other for the blend feature. I used a 3,300pF (0.0033mF) polystyrene cap for the tone (I know, not remotely conventional!) and have not as yet fitted a treble bleed to the circuit as I am still waiting for its arrival. 

All I can say is WOW! It is everything I wished for and more. Totally blown away! I may not even bother with the treble bleed. It is so versatile and yet so easy and intuitive to operate. Exactly what I was after. Can't recommend this mod enough. So so simple, cheap, non invasive of the trad layout, and quick and easy. The results are utterly superb! Those pickups, with their combo of Alnico3/5 in each pup, are absolutely perfect in this setup as well.

One very 'happy camper' here. Try it yourself. You may be surprised how much you like

[newey]

2 x Fender blender pots

Did you mean to say "Fender no-load pots"?. If you meant "blender", I'm not following exactly what you did here.

[marshall]

Sorry, that's what I meant to say newey! 

...as in these: Fender No Load pots

[marshall]

Long time update (probably last I guess!) - I did finally add in the treble bleed for the Vol pot. All I can say is thank you to all who helped with this project - it has exceeded my hopes and continually amazes me with how incredibly versatile and intuitive it is. I have had complicated push/pull in/out of phase series/parallel switching setups before and always ended up feeling that there was too much going on for real-world live use, but here the very simple mods that retain the normal layout yet provide amazing enhancements to the normal Strat options is truly wonderful. The blend in positions 1 and 5 on the switch is just completely fabulous! 

Thanks everyone!

All the best

[Charlie Honkmeister]

May 28, 2017 7:17:38 GMT -5 marshall said:

Long time update (probably last I guess!) - I did finally add in the treble bleed for the Vol pot. All I can say is thank you to all who helped with this project - it has exceeded my hopes and continually amazes me with how incredibly versatile and intuitive it is. I have had complicated push/pull in/out of phase series/parallel switching setups before and always ended up feeling that there was too much going on for real-world live use, but here the very simple mods that retain the normal layout yet provide amazing enhancements to the normal Strat options is truly wonderful. The blend in positions 1 and 5 on the switch is just completely fabulous! 

Thanks everyone!

All the best

Thanks for the feedback on the blend pot.   Having a no-load pot for the blend really seems to be the right way to go since you can disconnect it completely.  

Glad it worked out so well and you're happy with the tone versatility.