|
Post by merseymale on Dec 12, 2016 21:03:34 GMT -5
Hi! 2 questions...
I wanna put a 'bucker in the bridge position of my mustang (they have dedicated slider switches for each PickUp BTW) & I'd like to have its 3way switch wired like this:
1)humbucker 2) o f f 3) single coil
My questions are these- HOW? and will I need an ON/OFF/ON switch on an ON/ON/ON type?
Many Thanks in advance, folks!
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 12, 2016 22:47:55 GMT -5
and will I need an ON/OFF/ON switch on an ON/ON/ON type? The stock 3-position slide switch in a Mustang is neither on-off-on nor on-on-on. It functions by connecting adjacent lugs in each of the three positions. It's not hard to understand how it works. I'll try to describe it. Two rows, each row has four lugs. Let's number them this way: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 In the first position, lugs 1 & 2 are connected together, also lugs 5 & 6 are connected together. In the second position, lugs 2 & 3 are connected together, also lugs 6 & 7 are connected together. In the third position, lugs 3 & 4 are connected together, also lugs 7 & 8 are connected together. The good news is: the stock switch can be made to achieve the three functions you desire in the order you described. You could plan for hum-canceling by determining the magnetic polarity of your neck pickup to determine which coil of the HB to use in single-coil mode. Also, when you decide which brand of HB you'll use you can determine the wiring colors.
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 12, 2016 23:34:55 GMT -5
and will I need an ON/OFF/ON switch on an ON/ON/ON type? The stock 3-position slide switch in a Mustang is neither on-off-on nor on-on-on. It functions by connecting adjacent lugs in each of the three positions. It's not hard to understand how it works. I'll try to describe it. Two rows, each row has four lugs. Let's number them this way: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 In the first position, lugs 1 & 2 are connected together, also lugs 5 & 6 are connected together. In the second position, lugs 2 & 3 are connected together, also lugs 6 & 7 are connected together. In the third position, lugs 3 & 4 are connected together, also lugs 7 & 8 are connected together. The good news is: the stock switch can be made to achieve the three functions you desire in the order you described. You could plan for hum-canceling by determining the magnetic polarity of your neck pickup to determine which coil of the HB to use in single-coil mode. Also, when you decide which brand of HB you'll use you can determine the wiring colors. Thanks for that! TBH I think he bridge Switch is a little on the way out/needs preserving(!) so I'll need to get another (no great problem but I would've preferred a 6 contact type as their easier to find...) my main question is how would I wire this? The OP in the following 'site: www.tdpri.com/threads/toggle-switch-coil-tap.105158/Seems to have had a similar question answered but I don't understand the diagram that answered it: deaf-eddie.net/tdpri-drawings/on-off-on-2.jpgAre there TWO of the 4 leads soldered to each of the middle contacts? If not then where do the leads for the 2nd coil go? Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 12, 2016 23:41:47 GMT -5
I probably should've mentioned already that I wanted to put a Single Coil sized 'bucker in the bridge though -basically keep it all original looking cos I am kind of used this way of controlling on the fly AND cosmetically AND for resale
If I can wire it per my original question I could eek @ least SIX sounds outta 2 pickups -8 to 12 IF I throw in phase &/or 'series/para into the pot'! 😉
|
|
|
Post by Yogi B on Dec 13, 2016 0:27:15 GMT -5
You could plan for hum-cancelling by determining the magnetic polarity of your neck pickup to determine which coil of the HB to use in single-coil mode. Additionally if you are planning to maintain the stock switching functionality of the neck pickup switch, i.e. on -- off -- reverse phase, I believe that with the stock 8 pin switches it is even possible to switch the split to the other coil in order to maintain hum-cancelling when the pickups are out of phase. As for the diagram you linked, the white (north-) and red (south+) wires are the series linkings between the coils of the humbucker, this assumes that the other wire are independently wired of this switch, black (north+) to 'hot' and green (south-) to 'ground'. Thus when the top and middle contacts are connected the coils are linked together in series; in the middle off position no contacts are connected so the link is left unconnected (with the north coil hanging from hot); finally in the third position the northern half of the link (white) is grounded enabling only the north coil. While that method may be the most practical option for general guitars by utilising the easily installable miniature toggle type switch, but since with a mustang you have the option to drop in an 8 pin slider switch, I'd take it over the 6 pin type because it eliminates that need to leave one of the coils hanging from hot and any potential noise issues that it could cause.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 13, 2016 6:49:21 GMT -5
If the neck switch is staying "as is", you'll already have the out-of-phase setting. Not counting the "both off" setting, you'll have the following:
1) Neck pickup 2) Bridge HB 3) Bridge split coil 4) N + B in-phase 5) N + B out-of-phase 6) N + B split coil 7) N + B split coil, out-of-phase
Total, 7 tones, 3 more than the stock Mustang.
However, be aware that splitting the coils of one of the single-coil sized HBs may not give much output as the individual coils are so small. It can work OK if the HB is a hotter pickup than the neck.
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 13, 2016 12:29:24 GMT -5
I probably should've mentioned already that I wanted to put a Single Coil sized 'bucker in the bridge though -basically keep it all original looking cos I am kind of used this way of controlling on the fly AND cosmetically AND for resale Please be aware that many of the "SC sized" HBs require modification of the pickguard to fit. Something like this would require modification. _________________________________________________________________ On the other hand, something like this would fit without modification: Total, 7 tones, 3 more than the stock Mustang. Yes. With two 3-position switches we have a total of nine possible combinations. But "both pickups off" isn't a tone, so subtract one. And Neck only (reverse phase) sounds the same as Neck only (normal phase) so subtract another because of redundancy. 9 - 2 = 7 In the stock Mustang switching we have four redundancies in addition to both off. 9 - 5 = 4 Additionally if you are planning to maintain the stock switching functionality of the neck pickup switch, i.e. on -- off -- reverse phase, I believe that with the stock 8 pin switches it is even possible to switch the split to the other coil in order to maintain hum-cancelling when the pickups are out of phase. Yogi B, embedding the swap of which coil is selected when split to maintain hum-canceling when OoP is next-level thinking. The kind of thinking that separates the Nutz from everyone else. The stock wiring of the Mustang has the switches wired to function in a similar fashion to DPDT on-off-on switches. Sending the series link of the Bridge HB to the Neck switch when SC mode is selected for the Bridge pickup won't quite work with the stock wiring. You could shunt one coil of the Bridge when the Neck is in "normal" and shunt the other Bridge coil when the Neck is in OoP But no coil of the Bridge would be shunted when the Neck is Off. But ... there's no reason to stick with the stock wiring of the Neck switch if we can twist things about to achieve the desired goals. If the Neck switch can be wired such that the (-) of the Neck pickup is connected to ground when the Neck switch is in the off position, life will be good. Since you were the one who introduced the coil-swapping split to this discussion, you've more than earned the right to take the lead as we move forward, after merseymale makes the necessary decisions. Note: Fender has removed access to their wiring diagrams on their support site. But you can get a functional copy of the stock Mustang wiring from Seymour Duncan. www.seymourduncan.com/wiring-diagrams It won't matter what you select for pickup types as the first selection at the top of the list. Select 2 pickups in the field for # of pickups under Guitar Options, then Mustang Single as the neck pickup. www.seymourduncan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Mustang_Standard.jpg
|
|
|
Post by Yogi B on Dec 13, 2016 18:28:48 GMT -5
embedding the swap of which coil is selected when split to maintain hum-canceling when OoP is next-level thinking. However, forgetting that the phase switching still ought to work when we have the full humbucker isn't. So whilst what I said was technically correct (as I only mentioned the split mode), with the scheme I had in mind the option to go out of phase is only enabled when the humbucker is split i.e. it's missing option #5 from Newey's list, which may be too great a sacrifice.
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 13, 2016 19:09:29 GMT -5
Okay, so let's think differently and see if we can achieve all the major goals:
1 - OoP will be performed on the Neck pickup, so it won't matter if the HB is full-series or split to SC. 2 - Change which coil on the HB is selected as a single, if OoP is selected by the Neck.
To achieve this, we must shunt a coil. In the normal or off position of the Neck switch, we'll shunt the coil at the "bottom" of the HB series chain. In the OoP position of the Neck switch, we'll shunt the coil at the "top" of the HB series chain.
With the stock wiring of the Neck switch, the Bridge switch needs to perform two functions: A - Connect the full HB string to the volume control in both the HB mode and SC mode. B - Connect the series-link of the HB string to the (-) wire of the Neck pickup when the Bridge switch is in SC mode.
That will shunt the bottom coil of the HB when the Neck is normal, and shunt the top coil of the HB when the Neck switch is in the OoP mode.
Now the only hurdle is to insure that the (-) wire of the Neck pickup is connected to ground when the Neck switch is in the "off" position. Can you rework the wiring to a couple of the lugs on the Neck switch to make that happen? I think you can.
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 13, 2016 19:31:35 GMT -5
You could plan for hum-cancelling by determining the magnetic polarity of your neck pickup to determine which coil of the HB to use in single-coil mode. Additionally if you are planning to maintain the stock switching functionality of the neck pickup switch, i.e. on -- off -- reverse phase, I believe that with the stock 8 pin switches it is even possible to switch the split to the other coil in order to maintain hum-cancelling when the pickups are out of phase. As for the diagram you linked, the white (north-) and red (south+) wires are the series linkings between the coils of the humbucker, this assumes that the other wire are independently wired of this switch, black (north+) to 'hot' and green (south-) to 'ground'. Thus when the top and middle contacts are connected the coils are linked together in series; in the middle off position no contacts are connected so the link is left unconnected (with the north coil hanging from hot); finally in the third position the northern half of the link (white) is grounded enabling only the north coil. While that method may be the most practical option for general guitars by utilising the easily installable miniature toggle type switch, but since with a mustang you have the option to drop in an 8 pin slider switch, I'd take it over the 6 pin type because it eliminates that need to leave one of the coils hanging from hot and any potential noise issues that it could cause. Hmmm... ALSO one coil would Always be on! 🤔
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 13, 2016 20:49:27 GMT -5
Can you rework the wiring to a couple of the lugs on the Neck switch to make that happen? I think you can. You hold me in higher regard than I do myself! I've tried hard to work this out & ive got the feeling I am very close but I just can't quite finish it... 🤔
|
|
|
Post by Yogi B on Dec 13, 2016 21:01:52 GMT -5
Hmmm... ALSO one coil would Always be on! 🤔 I assume you're referring to: in the middle off position no contacts are connected so the link is left unconnected ( with the north coil hanging from hot) In the middle position both coils are off in the traditional sense, there is no complete path from hot to ground through either coil of the bridge humbucker, however the north coil is still connected to hot (but not ground) and as such may act as an antenna for noise -- thus is hanging from hot. You? Who? Well while merseymale was calling dibs, I was busy doing other things To that end I hope the following is devoid of error (for now I've taken the assumptions of a south neck coil with red:positive / green:negative, and standard Seymour Duncan colours for the bridge 'bucker):
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 13, 2016 21:08:11 GMT -5
Hi Yogi B!
I hope I've not annoyed anyone😮
Thanks for the diagram- I think that looks just right!
Many Thanks & I'll let us know how it goes...
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 13, 2016 22:20:26 GMT -5
You hold me in higher regard than I do myself! My reply was to something Yogi B said. My fault for the confusion. I just tossed a quote box around his words instead of clicking the quote box on his post. Yoohoo! To that end I hope the following is devoid of error (for now I've taken the assumptions of a south neck coil with red:positive / green:negative, and standard Seymour Duncan colours for the bridge 'bucker): You did a fine job. Your diagram will function as-advertised, given the assumptions. Of course merseymale will need to verify polarity of his existing neck pickup, the colors associated with it, and the brand of SC sized HB he'll be installing in the bridge, before everything can be translated to the final version he'll use. Worth noting: Fender assigns the slide switch positions toward the neck as "in-phase", although it really doesn't matter because of the redundancies. Both switches in the same direction gets you relative "in-phase" on a stock Mustang. However, since there is only one way we can choose in or out of phase (the Neck switch) in the new scheme, we should note that toward the tail on the Neck switch will have the Neck pickup in phase agreement with the Bridge pickup. Also, toward the tail on the Bridge switch is full HB. Toward the neck on the Bridge switch splits the HB to SC mode.
|
|
|
Post by merseymale on Dec 15, 2016 16:53:48 GMT -5
C O O L!!
|
|