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Post by JFrankParnell on Jan 6, 2017 21:17:36 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Jan 6, 2017 21:37:16 GMT -5
What I see is:
1) Bridge Full HB 2) Br. Full HB + Neck Full HB 3) Neck Full HB 4) Bridge screw coil + Neck slug coil 5) Bridge Screw Coil
I think your wish list will need a Superswitch or similar.
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 6, 2017 21:44:55 GMT -5
Well, the bottom right has to be the common for that pole, and they are usually depicted with the commons opposite each other, so the other common will be top left, so you should have:
Bridge HB Bridge HB + Neck HB Neck HB Bridge SC + Neck SC Bridge SC
If you swap (all of the wires from) the Bridge and Neck, you could have all the coil selections you've asked for, but not in the same positions. I'm not sure you can have the exact order that you've asked for with a standard 5-way, though I haven't tried real hard to make it happen.
Edit - Which is pretty much what newey said when he ninja'd me.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 6, 2017 23:42:24 GMT -5
Well, the bottom right has to be the common for that pole, and they are usually depicted with the commons opposite each other, so the other common will be top left, so you should have: Bridge HB Bridge HB + Neck HB Neck HB Bridge SC + Neck SC Bridge SC
I hate to be the early-year pooty parper, but if ashcatlt's surmisal is correct (and it is), then both newey & ash have made an error - the only way for signal to get to the "upper" terminal of the volume pot would be off of what you've called terminal 3 (positions 4 & 5). Hence, the only signal getting out will be then Bridge single coil, in pos 4 & 5, and nothing else.
Probably not what SDuncan had intended, eh?
So, we can also use the "upper-right, lower-left" slant on things, and then we can obtain sounds from each of the five positions. To my way of thinking, that would be:
Bridge full Bridge full + Neck Full Neck full Neck split + Bridge split Bridge Split
Not a very intuitive arrangement, I think we can agree on that, right?
I also believe that in order to achieve JFP's goal, a superswitch will be needed.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by newey on Jan 7, 2017 8:27:55 GMT -5
Look again, sg. First, I much prefer calling the lugs on a regular 5-way switch "1,3 and 5" so that they correspond to the switch positions.
At position 5, we do indeed get only the bridge single coil, as intended.
At position 4, the neck "hot" is connected to the output because position "4" shorts lugs 3 and 5. The neck "series junction" is then grounded by the other pole of the switch, as it is then connected to the black wire at lug 3. So, the black neck wire connects to the output, and the white wire is grounded, giving us the neck slug coil.* In fact, the entire second pole of the switch here is being used only to split the neck HB at position 4.
*Of course, since it's an SD diagram, we're assuming SD colors. Also note that the diagram shows the neck HB rotated 180 degrees.
And, I think Ash is right, JFP can have his desired choices with a regular 5-way, but not in the order he stated.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 7, 2017 12:55:30 GMT -5
newey,
Errr...... I really fail to see how the upper-left lug is common. Think: -- -- if the wire coming from the vol pot's "hot" terminal is going to the switch's common, that has to be the left-lower lug, not left-upper. In no wise does any signal get to the pot for three out of the five positions if the common is not that lower-left terminal.
Where ash is correct is that the common is always (or 99.999999% of the time) diagonally opposite for each side, not straight across. But it can be upper-right, lower-left, that's allowed... and in fact I've drawn that myownself, on occasion.
Now if somehow the wire between the vol pot and the switch is not the common for the switch's pole, then I'd like to see the part number for said switch, please.
sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 7, 2017 13:03:10 GMT -5
WTF?!?
The hot signal from the switch gets to the V pot from the lower right lug - the common for that bottom pole. It does everything it needs to do and works just fine.
The common for the top half IS all the way to the left. There's no wire there and shouldn't be. All this half of the switch does is short the series-link from the N pickup to ground in the position that we seem to be calling #4.
Edit - This diagram does seem to have an inconsistent way of showing what happens where two wires cross. Sometimes there are the little bumps, and sometimes there aren't, but I think if we assume that no two wires connect "in mid air", only at a lug, then we're ok.
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Post by newey on Jan 7, 2017 21:20:05 GMT -5
What Ash said . . .
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Post by sumgai on Jan 7, 2017 21:36:07 GMT -5
ash, Your response points out the necessity of numbering/labeling anything in a diagram where ambiguity might arise. I took the drawing, and your nomenclature, to mean the left pole and the right pole, not left and right sides of the drawing. In my humble experience, no one has ever referred to the connection points on an electrical part as related to a drawing, instead of the part itself. (Althought we've had newcomers here who have done such a thing, but you or I? ) I have not consulted with my co-conspiritor on this, but I am now of more than half a mind to delete any drawing by an experiencd member, or coming from a source that should know better, which does not include a labeling system of some sort. Not the whole message, just the "confusing" part, such as this drawing from Duncan, who really should know better. Along with a polite request, of course, to modify the drawing in question with labels. Any kind of labels, so long as all doubt is removed about which terminal is which, etc. newey, I understand your position about assigning terminals/lugs with the appropraite switch-position number, it does make it easy to translate between the two when describing in text which lug does what. However, consider the predicament of a newbie who looks under his pickguard for the first time, and sees only four terminals on a side instead of the 5 or 6 inferred from a textual description that has no image(s) nearby for reference. Just sayin', ya know. Comments, anyone?
Let me take this moment to insert another comment here.... Did anyone else notice that textual box in the lower left corner? Boiled down, it says that Seymour Duncan permits, without express permission, the re-posting of any of their diagrams to other websites. I find that almost extraordinary, in light of all the silly litigation going on these days, vis-a-vis copyrights, etc. Also, it's certainly nice to know that The NutzHouse (and by extenstion ProBoards too) is off the hook for this kind of thing. At least insofar as Duncan is concerned. sumgai
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 7, 2017 23:32:22 GMT -5
Tempest in a teapot? I agree 100% with Newey and Ash. My $0.02
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Post by sumgai on Jan 8, 2017 1:25:16 GMT -5
While I may appear, initially, to have come on a bit strong, let me reiterate The NutzHouse motto and mantra - we are here to educate those who wish to learn. Along that pathway there will almost always be some stumbling, but I personally feel very strongly that such toe-stubbing should not be caused by what we post here, if it can be helped at all.
The diagram from Duncan and the ensuing discussion just goes to prove that if one is not specific, then anything that can be interpreted in two ways, will be.... sort of like a corollary to Murphy's Law. newey, ash and reTrEaD took it one way, I took it another. From something that didn't need to be drawn at a 45 degree angle, but was, we now are at odds, and that shouldn't be so. We could've had clarity from the git-go, and we didn't, sorry to say. And in the end, any viewers who are not guitar-tech-savvy are scratchin' their heads. That disturbs me more than almost anything else.
newey and I will be having a little pow-wow, just as soon as he finishes reading the latest installment of War & Peace, which are documents dropped on his desk by his firm, several times a week.
sumgai
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Post by newey on Jan 8, 2017 8:35:44 GMT -5
Tolstoy looks like a paragon of brevity compared to what I get . . . SD's rendering of the 5-way switch was/is, I think, the cause of the confusion. When you have an actual 5-way switch in hand, it's pretty easy to identify the poles, as they are spaced apart. For the future, I'll try to designate things in the first reply- i.e., "common is at the lower right" or some such, before we all go down the merry pathway to the Land of Confusion. Others should do likewise.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 8, 2017 9:18:00 GMT -5
From something that didn't need to be drawn at a 45 degree angle, but was Actually ... drawing the switch at an angle is the preferred method in the case of a Strat. But SD dropped the ball on this one by not placing the pickups and pots in the locations where they would be seen if the scratch guard is flipped over, ready to be soldered. Like this: Or this:
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Post by sumgai on Jan 8, 2017 12:45:54 GMT -5
'TrEaD,
It's all called "taking artistic liberties", which is the root of the problem. Where one person sees waves, another sees clouds. An artist of the visceral nature can do that and get away with it - not so for a technical drawing that is supposed to represent the real world in exact detail. I was referring, as you have done, to the fact that the switch was oriented at 45 deg. and the rest of the components were scatter-shotted around willy-nilly. I ask myself, what would a Rookie Solder Flinger think when he compares that to what's under is own hood... and that's where my dander starts rising.
Yes, I'm being overly sensitive, and perhaps that's not a good thing. But that doesn't mean that we can't at least strive for better precision and accuracy here in The NutzHouse, does it?
sumgai
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Post by gumbo on Jan 9, 2017 6:47:49 GMT -5
"Yes, I'm being overly sensitive, and perhaps that's not a good thing." ...noted... ....it's very hard to derail a statement like that ..
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Post by sumgai on Jan 9, 2017 20:05:12 GMT -5
^^^^^ Oh come on, is that all? I expected better from a supremely seasoned and truly experienced derailer like you!
Care to try again?!
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Post by gumbo on Jan 10, 2017 7:31:37 GMT -5
Now, you ARE being overly sensitive..
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 10, 2017 12:26:37 GMT -5
" I ask myself, what would a Rookie Solder Flinger think when he compares that to what's under is own hood... and that's where my dander starts rising." How does one get these 'titles' on this site?
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Post by sumgai on Jan 10, 2017 13:30:11 GMT -5
bm2,
You've already got a title, in fact you're now an Apprentice Shielder, and soon due for another promotion! In ProBoards parlance, these are predicated only on how many posts a member has made, and that's the only criterion.... sorry to say.
Here's a breakdown of titles and post counts: Rookie Solder Flinger
| 0 | Apprentice Shielder
| 25 | Meter Reader 1st Class | 50 | Senior Switch Wirer | 100 | Wiring Expert | 250 | Master Diagnostician | 500 | Mod God | 1000 | Quantum Mechanic | 1500 | Certified Guitar Nut | 2500 | Wirer Extraordinaire | 3000 | Mod Master Of The Universe | 4000 |
newey and I have always wanted to be able to promote people independent of post counts, we feel that quality of posts is more important, but we're definitely underdogs on this score. Unless ProBoards has a raft of people starting, or Administrators of current boards, making this same request, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
HTH
EDIT: By the way, newey and I came up with these labels years ago. If anyone has any better ideas, please feel free to shout 'em out. We're always open to ideas for changing things in an attractive way, humor being one of those ways.
sumgai
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jan 10, 2017 14:07:39 GMT -5
I'm halfway to MOD GOD!! Also, I think Ima just go with a 3-way and triple-shots Having a hard time deciding between Unbuckers, Saturday Night Specials and P-Rails. P-Rails currently have my favor.
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Post by gumbo on Jan 11, 2017 6:50:03 GMT -5
..see..?
...no derailment necessary
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 11, 2017 12:47:06 GMT -5
Thanks, sumgai, for the title explanation.
I think my wife would assign me the "Certified Guitar Nut" title for sure, but I am happy with the existing criteria for normal progression through the ranks. :-) Just curious.
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