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Post by guchioguchi on Mar 22, 2017 19:36:19 GMT -5
EDIT: moved by sumgai, 3/23/17, message sent to gg.
This is my first post, and I'm not sure whether or not this was the "General Electronics and Wiring" board that was referred to, so please forgive me if i'm in the wrong place. I will gladly take my green butt wherever you want to put it.
Anyhow, I have an early 2000's American Std Strat, SSS. It's currently star-grounded with the PTB setup which I quite thoroughly enjoy. I am however interested in adding a series switch and while I'm in there I was curious to try 50s wiring with the treble cut put after the volume. Does this schematic exist and I'm blind, or is it just tomfoolery? any advice or insults would both be appreciated. it's all part of the learning process. |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 23, 2017 12:02:04 GMT -5
gg,
Hi, and welcome to the The NutzHouse! 
What you're asking for has probably not been done in complete fashion -yet-, but you can make it happen. What you're looking for, and what we have in abundance here in The NutzHouse, is a tall stack of modules. These are small subsets of wiring lash-ups that can be integrated into more complicated schemes. With that said, you might find your inspiration here:
Series to Parallel switching
and here:
Modern vs 50s wiring
But don't shake your head in consternation just yet, I'm only pointing them out because you said that didn't see anything 'ready to rock'... I took that to mean that you'd at least like to try your hand at the job, was I correct? And if not, if you need a stronger clue, no problem - we are here to help.
HTH
sumgai
p.s. A word to the wise.... TomFoolery is a good friend of us Nutz. Just sayin', ya know? 
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 24, 2017 4:28:57 GMT -5
I was curious to try 50s wiring with the treble cut put after the volume. Gooch, there is good reason why Gibson abandoned the 50s wiring after the 50s. It has more disadvantages than advantages. But if your heart is set on that, it won't be difficult to accomplish. Here is the stock wiring for a Fender American Standard Stratocaster: p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/011-7400_02A_SISD.pdfNotice the jumper between the pole on the lower left of the switch and the pole on the upper right. That will be removed. The wire that is connected to the CW terminal of the volume control needs to connect to the lower left instead of the upper right. Then an additional wire connects the upper right to the wiper of the volume control. Done. I am however interested in adding a series switch What do you want the "series switch" to do? If you want it to act like the switch on the Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, you'll need more than a new volume pot with a S-1 switch. You'll also need a 4P5T superswitch. The wiring looks like this: p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/010-1400_02A_SISD.pdfIf you had some other plan involving a series switch, we can talk about that if you add more information about your intentions. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 24, 2017 5:25:54 GMT -5
I just noticed something I missed, earlier: with the PTB setup which I quite thoroughly enjoy. Ignore the first part of my previous post. The bass cut is dependent on the load provided by the volume control. Your Bass control won't function properly if you move the tone controls after the volume control. So just don't do it. |
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Post by guchioguchi on Mar 24, 2017 22:06:48 GMT -5
Sumgai, thanks for moving my post where it goes, it's very much appreciated. i was doing a search for what i described and couldn't find it without being confused, but it was like 2am half asleep search so you know how that goes. and because of that i missed that very clearly labeled very useful link to series/parallel switching that should just about solve all my problems. you're fantastic. reTrEaD, my heart isn't set on 50's wiring necessarily.... the purpose i had in mind was the alternative to a treble bleed circuit, however i was at the electronics store yesterday and ended up picking up a 220pF cap so i though maybe just leaving it like the G and L legacy design would be fine... i have yet to try it out, my guitar is still in 3 pieces. As far as 50s wiring relation to PTB, I was under the impression there was a way to leave the bass cut as is but rewire the treble cut after the volume ala 50s wiring, but so far my knowledge of guitar wiring is more of the paint by the numbers/connect the dots variety rather than actual comprehension to the point of being able to visualize a circuit. as far as series switching goes, i saw an article on premier guitars about using a DPDT that would allow me to keep everything as is but 2 and 4 would be switched from parallel to series, and affect nothing else. the schematic doesn't make sense to me but i think that the link i got from sumgai will remedy the situation. i'll be perfectly honest, the PTB was very useful for me, all this other stuff is just curiosity and a relentless need to f*** with s***. I'll see what I can come up with based on your replies. btw, you guys are waaaay nicer than those a  holes at gearslutz.  |
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Post by guchioguchi on Mar 24, 2017 22:19:12 GMT -5
ok, so a whopping 6 minutes later, my mind kinda farted out on me. RT, the link sumgai gave me to your post is AWESOME. i feel like i should be able to wrap my head around it.... but to be perfectly honest i've been digging ditches and hauling stones all day and I"m having trouble thinking. at this point i'd really just like to get my pick guard back on and start playing, so please forgive me for being a lazy a  hole. but here's the g and l legacy schematic. www.glguitars.com/schematics/Legacy_schematic_drawing.pdf that's exactly how i'm currently wired up. is there any way i could convince you to tell me how to throw a DPDT on/on in to the mix to achieve series switching at 2 and 4 without affecting anything else? feel free to tell me to go f k myself.. i'd still be grateful you replied. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 25, 2017 0:24:41 GMT -5
If that schematic is exactly what you've wired then you've wasted a bit of solder and wire because all those jumpers on the 5-way do exactly nothing. Each terminal on each pole is connected to its partner on the other. Redundancy is. I suppose it might help if one side of the switch finds some way not to make contact while the other does, but most of us just replace the switch when that happens. If you want to try 50s then do it. There's one wire. Move it to the other lug of the V pot. If you decide you don't like it, move it back. I'm not sure about the series thing. The link sg gave is greate, but it's only dealing with two things (pickups in this case, but it can pretty much be any other 2in 2out module) and you've got three. What I think you're saying is that you want the selected coils to be the same. Like it will always be N, NM, M, MB, B. But you want the 2 and 4 to be series combinations rather than parallel. Around here we use + for a parallel combination, and * for series. It's not even close to mathematically true, but it helps us communicate. So you want your S/P switch to change your 5-way from N, N+M, M, M+B, B to N, N*M, M, M*B, B And I really do not think that can be done with a standard 5-way switch. I'm not the first to say it. The issue being that the Strat 5-way is really just a Tele 3-way that has stops in between. It basically enforces the parallel connection by the way it shorts between the lugs in the "in between" positions. To make the series thing happen, you really need to be able to choose what's connected to what in each position rather than let the switch decide. I'm not completely convinced that you need 4 poles, but I'm sure you need at least 3, and I'm sure you won't find a 5P3T blade switch, so... I have gotten in the habit of cutting my oickguards to separate the Control section from the part with the pickups that needs you to destring before you can get at the guts. I'm a horrible hack, and most of them are barely noticeable. If you took a little time, you could make it look alright. I usually cut across between two convenient screw holes so that when I put it back together, the two sections share those screws. |
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Post by newey on Mar 25, 2017 9:40:07 GMT -5
gg- ashcatlt is right, you would need a Superswitch or equivalent to get series at positions 2 and 4. But take a look at this scheme, which uses only one extra push/pull pot to get a selection of series options. Page down for the version with a regular Strat 5-way switch. ChrisK's "3 single coils and the 'S-None' switch" |
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 25, 2017 10:14:00 GMT -5
is there any way i could convince you to tell me how to throw a DPDT on/on in to the mix to achieve series switching at 2 and 4 without affecting anything else? This could be the point where I tell you to go ... But instead I'll tell you that you can't do EXACTLY what you're asking for. As Ash said, you'd need a better 5-way switch in addition to the DPDT to do exactly what you asked for. And if you were inclined to go that way, you could use Stratovarious V1.0 as the basis. But in my humble opinion, you could make better use of the new switches with V2.0 You can find the Stratovarious schemes in the Design Modules section. They are intentionally not complete. Just the basic structures that can be adapted to specific applications. If you would be willing to settle for " not exactly", you can retain the stock singles and parallel map in one position of the DPDT: 5 - Neck 4 - Neck + Middle 3 - Middle 2 - Middle + Bridge 1 - Bridge In the other position of the DPDT your selections would be 5 - Neck x Middle 4 - (Neck + Bridge) x Middle 3 - Bridge x Middle 2 - Bridge x Middle 1 - Bridge x Middle That would get you the two additional sounds you wanted but they wouldn't be located in the positions of the 5-way where you wanted them. The third additional sound ... (Neck + Bridge) x Middle in the #2 position might be changed to just Neck + Bridge if you prefer. Regarding the treble bleed, I would suggest leaving the PTB intact and before the volume control. Add a 1nF capacitor in parallel with a 120k resistor between the CW and wiper of the volume control as your treble bleed network to mitigate the loss of highs when the volume is reduced. |
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Post by guchioguchi on Mar 25, 2017 15:07:42 GMT -5
ash, thank you man! i KNEW those jumpers were bullcrap and they really confused the crap out of me and threw off my whole understanding of the functions of the switch. i swear they put that crap in there just to f*** with people. the 50s wiring though, i'm not so concerned with. and that's f g brilliant about cutting the pick guard. chris, thank you i will check your post as soon as my kids shut the f*** up! RT, thank you once again, and for not telling me to go.... all of the advice is tremendously appreciated... i totally owe you an "old fashioned". jk. |
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Post by guchioguchi on Mar 25, 2017 15:11:27 GMT -5
PS: it's funny that my ranking is solder flinger, because i just flung hot solder in my own face taking off those jumper wires.
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Post by JohnH on Mar 25, 2017 15:49:36 GMT -5
Hi gg and welcome. Sadly ChrisK is no longer with us, but his S-None schemes posted above were a piece of simple genius IMO. I reworked it a little to make this, which you might find of interest: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7301/strat-sn-sss-based-chrisksIt could be done with PTB wiring if wanted, and you can try the treble cut in 50's position if you wish but I would not. There are a couple of other versions of getting series options on Strats using one extra switch, which we can point to if you wish. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 26, 2017 6:52:49 GMT -5
That does seem to be an excellent choice for this situation. The bridge-neck blend pot would need to be omitted because one of the pots is already in use as the bass cut in the PTB. Nevertheless, it has a sensible map and 5 additional sounds rather than 3. Side note to you, John. Have you ever considered using a similar "fix" (capacitor) in any of your LP schemes that have a series option? |
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