ktulu
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
|
Post by ktulu on Feb 4, 2018 1:43:03 GMT -5
OK, here goes. I've got 2 humbuckers, 5-way, 1 push-pull vol, 1 push-pull tone. What I would like to get is: The 5-way: n, n+b outer coils, n+b inner coils, n+b, b The pp vol: n reverse polarity (+ if possible at the same time b coil split) The pp tone: b out of phase
Is this in any way doable, first of all? My fears go especially towards the pp vol, to achieve both desired functions. If yes, could someone find one day the time to draw this whole diagram for me?
Thanks a lot!
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Feb 4, 2018 2:21:34 GMT -5
Okay, you made your own thread for this, and that's a good thing. But you put it in the wrong place. Should have been in main Guitar Wiring board, not a subforum. The "schematics" subforums are for authors who are presenting completed diagrams, ready for use, in their first post of the thread. No worries though, this will eventually be moved to Guitar Wiring. We'll bring you up to speed on how we operate here, as time goes on. OK, here goes. I've got 2 humbuckers, 5-way, 1 push-pull vol, 1 push-pull tone. What I would like to get is: The 5-way: n, n+b outer coils, n+b inner coils, n+b, b The pp vol: n reverse polarity (+ if possible at the same time b coil split) The pp tone: b out of phaseThe basic selections you have on the 5-way are very desirable. But your choice of what to do with the push-pulls are not good. With only two pickup, it makes little sense to have phase reversals availble for each pickup. (Bridge out of phase) and Neck Bridge and Neck out of phase) those two sound exactly the same. Better, I think, to choose one pickup or the other and assign a phase switch to it. Use the other push-pull for something else. Perhaps to put the two elements that are selected in series with each other or in parallel with each other. I can recommend two completed diagrams as either a starting point or they may already do everything you want. The Big Fat Ten by Fobits. The Big Ugly by UnklMickey. Both are very good designs. Fobits' is very easy to read and understand. Adding a phase switch to that would be rather easy. UnklMickey's already has a phase switch. If neither of those float your boat, we might use one of the three strategies discussed in the Strat-o-various project. But that would be a longer process. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7825/guitar-wiring-tutorial-various-project
|
|
ktulu
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
|
Post by ktulu on Feb 4, 2018 2:44:57 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll take a look. I'd like to point out though, that I wouldn't want to drill extra holes. I'm gonna work with what I already have, and only change the pots. As for the phasing... Well, yeah, your right. I'm gonna take a look over there.
Edit: OK, those are really cool. I'm going to see however, if I can rethink the whole concept. The concept of what I desire to have in this guitar, that is. Lol!
|
|
ktulu
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
|
Post by ktulu on Feb 5, 2018 8:34:16 GMT -5
Okay, this is great! One question though, on Th hie Big Ugly. Please search for "To omit this switch, simply connect the right hand lug of the volume pot directly to the star ground." What does he mean by that? <<connect the right hand lug of the volume pot directly to the star ground>>? <<star ground>>? This is the picture (attached). Also, where exactly is the blast button? Thanks! Edit: when we talk about north & south, where does what point to? I'm thinking north coil is towards the headstock? Did he willingly misplace his humbuckers, in order to better draw the diagram?
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 5, 2018 9:39:06 GMT -5
k,
Look carefully at the diagram again.... To the immediate right of the Vol/Ser-Par control, there is a small switch that's labeled 'Momentary', and 'N.C.'. That indicates "Spring loaded", and the initials stand for "Normally Closed".
Taken together, this is a switch that will keep a connection closed (the switch is considered 'on') until you press it with your finger. At that time, the connection is opened (the switch goes 'off'), but as soon as you take your finger away, it goes back 'on'. That's the simple part that describes the switch. In this circuit, Unklmickey uses it rather ingeniously.
Under normal circumstances the right-most terminal of the Vol pot must be grounded in order for that pot to function the way we want. So the important question here becomes, what happens if that terminal is not grounded? Well, to short-cut past all the electrical theory, the pot becomes nothing more than just another resistor in the circuit; thus it simply passes on the full signal to the output jack. (Well, yes, the resistor will reduce the signal strength somewhat. But compared to having the Vol put turned up full, that reduction will be unnoticibly small as far as your ears are concerned).
That's the long and short of it, any questions?
sumgai
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 5, 2018 10:14:11 GMT -5
k,
(Forgot to deal with the North/South question.)
In simple terms, the labels are for reference purposes when discussing how the two coils are magnetically related to each other. There is no rule or standard that governs how a company labels its pickup coils, the pickup maker can freely choose which coil to call which label. It then follows that there is no rule that says a North coil must face the neck in a Neck pickup, etc. (And we Nutz take advantage of that fact in some of our more Nutzoid schemes!)
Carefully following a manufacturer's diagram is the only way you can be sure you are applying the labels the same way they do. Sadly, some companies don't publish all the information you might need, and others don't always follow their own conventions from one pickup model to the next. So the emphasis is on that 'careful' part.
HTH
sumgai
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Feb 5, 2018 14:51:32 GMT -5
This is the picture (attached). Would you mind editing that post and deleting the attachment? I like talking with you and hope you'll become a regular poster. So I'll invest the time to get you more up to speed on more efficient ways of using the resources. Feel free to use attachments for images on your hard drive if you have no other way of hosting them. But for an image that's already on GN2, just "Copy Image Location" (a choice available if your right-click on an image) then click on the "Insert Image" icon in the editor. A pop-up will appear. Paste into the field "Image URL:". Then click on the "Insert Image" button in that pop-up. The result will look like this in the editor [img src="http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/unklmickey/gn2%20schematics/TBUv2.gif~original"]
And like this, when you post He's alluding to a finesse technique where all grounds are joined together at just one point. See the green dot to the left of the tone capacitor? That's the star point. It isn't about making a better drawing. Standard practice for pickup manufactureres is when a HB has screws and slugs, the screws are South-up and the slugs are North-up. It's also common practice for guitar manufacturers to orient the pickups so that "Inners" are both slug coils and "Outers" are both screw coils. This combination of standards makes getting hum-cancelling impossible when selecting Inners or Outers. So he wants you to spin one of the pickups around (in this case, the Bridge pickup.)
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 5, 2018 17:22:23 GMT -5
It's also common practice for guitar manufacturers to orient the pickups so that "Inners" are both slug coils and "Outers" are both screw coils. That is the case for the majority of mass-made guitars. Probably the greater majority of custom built ones, too. But exactly for the reasons of engaging humbucking abilities, some makers have been known to rotate one pup or the other, as the two installed pickups were not a matched set (leading to magnetic differences). I'm looking at the Ibanez RG series here. See my next comment....
As ChrisK once said, "Standards are only good for as far as you can throw them".
sumgai
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Feb 5, 2018 19:17:36 GMT -5
Standards Speaking of those, UnklMickey was swimming against the current with his choice of numbering the positions on the 5-way. ie: 1 = Neck 5 = Bridge
It had already become accepted practice to number 5 = Neck 1 = Bridge. But he had a penchant for going against that.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Feb 5, 2018 22:39:02 GMT -5
We're wandering off-topic a bit here, but:
More or less true, but Fender's OEM wiring diagrams over the years have not always been consistent in this designation. I have always lobbied herein for "Neck = 5" to be the standard for our purposes, since the majority seems to lean that way. But YMMV.
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 6, 2018 1:44:52 GMT -5
^^^ Whereas I grew up knowing that Neck = Position 1. It wasn't until sometime in the latter years of CBS ownership that Fender got off on the wrong foot with their newest diagrams.
Position 5 = Neck? Bah, humbug!
Unk knew all this, and he took a bit of ribbing on occasion. But for the most part he just did his thing, and let the rest of us quarrel over Who Shot John.
sumgai
|
|
ktulu
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
|
Post by ktulu on Feb 6, 2018 9:46:18 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help! Hum-cancelling?! Wow, maybe that's why I'm getting a lot of terrible hum in some of the sounds from this late project of mine? Oh, let me zoom out a little. Just a small unnecessary zoom out Well, I used a DiMarzio diagram, but at that time I wasn't aware of things like rotating them. On top of it all, you can see that one of the pickups has both coils with Allen screws...
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Feb 6, 2018 10:50:30 GMT -5
Wow, maybe that's why I'm getting a lot of terrible hum in some of the sounds from this late project of mine? Maybe. Or maybe there's something else amiss. Also, you can't get hum-canceling in any position using only one coil. Rotating a pickup doesn't change which coils are being selected. It only determines the location of the coils. So if designing a wiring scheme that has positions which select inners and outers, you'll be wiring those positions differently if one of the pickups is rotated. It still has one north coil and one south coil. You just can't spot which is which, visually.
|
|
ktulu
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
|
Post by ktulu on Feb 6, 2018 13:21:45 GMT -5
Then why did he rotate one of his HB?
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Feb 6, 2018 14:53:18 GMT -5
Question you ask ... excellent is, young padawan. Without rotating one of his HBs, he had two choices to make. Neither of them was acceptable. 1 - Select one coil from each HB in positions 2 and 4. If those two positions were wired for inners and outers, Position 4 (outers) would be both South coils (won't hum-cancel), Position 4 (inners) would be both North coils (won't hum-cancel). Nice positioning, bad regarding hum. 2 - Select one coil from each HB in positions 2 and 4. If those two positions were wired for one North and one South to get hum-canceling, Position 2 would be Neck South and Bridge North (not inners, not outers), Position 4 would be both Neck North and Bridge South (not inners, not outers. Nice hum-cancelling, bad positioning. The difference in sound between 2 and 4 would be minor. The selected coils would have the same spacing from each other with the difference being 4 has coils that are slightly closer to the Bridge. Rotating one pickup allowed him to wire for one North and one South in positions 2 and 4 and have the chosen coils in the best position.
|
|