george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 7, 2018 6:43:10 GMT -5
Hi, I would like to change the wiring of my guitar so that I can have 1 :Bridge in Series 2:Bridge in parallel 3:I do not really care !! 4:Neck in paraller 5: Neck in series If I could get split or out of phase sounds as well with the addition of push pulls it would be an extra benefit. I have already searched the forum but I could not find anything that is relevant with my situation. I already know how to do it with a 3 way switch and a coupe of push pulls but i would like to take advantage of my 5 way switch. I am going to replace all the old electronics apart from the pickups so if I need to buy a couple of push pulls or a 5 way super switch I will do it. Cheers, George.
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Post by newey on Mar 7, 2018 15:17:55 GMT -5
George1980:
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
Your wish list will require a Superswitch in order to get series/parallel out of your HBs on the 5-way. If you want to add a coil split switch or a phase switch (or both), then one or two push/pull pots would also be needed.
However, if you truly "don't care" about position 3, you could put both pickups out of phase at that position, or do coil splits there, thereby avoiding the need for one or more push/pulls.
It may be a while before one of us can do a diagram for you, but in the meantime let's focus on getting a "final version" of what you want, so that whoever does do a diagram isn't trying to hit a moving target. Also, so that we can do this with the appropriate wire colors, please let us know what pickups you will be using (BTW, both HBs need to be of the modern 4-conductor type to do series/parallel between the two coils).
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 7, 2018 16:24:18 GMT -5
Hi Newey, Thank you for replying so fast . I have a Dimarzio Paf pro in the neck position and a Bill Laurence (Wilde) L500xl in the bridge . I bought the guitar used and the guy that had replaced the pickups has not done a great job that’s why I want to replace everything apart from the pickups. Now regarding the sounds that l would like to achieve , my main concern is 1. Bridge Humbucker In series ( as per normal) 2. Bridge humbucker coils in parallel 3 . I would love the idea of a Tele or Strat sound 4. Neck humbucker cools in parallel 5.Neck humbucker in series (as per normal)
Push-pulls coil split .
My only concern is if a superswitch is going to fit but I think that I have around 35mm room inside the cavity. Is there a specific superswitch that I should go with ?
Cheers.
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Post by newey on Mar 7, 2018 16:34:59 GMT -5
Depth of the cavity is often the issue. The Fender version of the superswitch is made by Oak-Grigsby, which I believe is now owned by Electroswitch. They probably have a data sheet on their website to give you the dimensions. There are other options, such as the Schaller megaswitches, but there again, check dimensions closely.
You could cut both HBs to single coil at that position, which would be Tele-ish. However, if you have resolved to add a separate coil cut switch then using position 3 to cut coils would be duplicative.
I haven't looked but I assume both the DM PAF and the WIlde have 4 conductors?
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 7, 2018 17:56:04 GMT -5
You are right about position 3 so don’t worry about the push pulls . I am 80% sure that I will be able to fit a superswitch in the cavity . I will measure again and let you know . Both pickups have 4 conductor cables. By the way are all the super switches the same ? I saw that Schaller has different models with different writings ....
Cheers
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 7, 2018 18:36:34 GMT -5
Schaller doesn't make a SuperSwitch. They make several different models of MegaSwitch. It's a far superior design than the SuperSwitch or any of the variants of the standard Fender lever switches. The detent mechanism has a more positive feel and because the switch contactor rides on a printed board, that improves reliability. The MegaSwitch models are not directly interchangeable with each other. Each model is purpose-built. You need to select the model which suits your needs. - The most versatile is the M-model. That's the functional equivalent to the SuperSwitch.
- The S-model is the functional equivalent to the standard Fender Stratocaster 5-way.
- The T-model is the functional equivalent to the standard Fender Telecaster 3-way.
- The P-model a 5-way designed around the PRS wiring scheme. It's far more limited than the M-model but requires fewer jumpers than the M to get the combinations used in many of the PRS guitars.
- The E-model is a 5-way with a reasonable number of strategies possible. Like the P-model, it has limitations but if you like one of the wiring schemes they have designed around it, there will be fewer connections you need to make.
- There is also and E-Plus model. Similar to the E but designed to support a different set of wiring schemes.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 9, 2018 6:25:09 GMT -5
I found this wiring and I was thinking to combine it with these two push pull mods... any thoughts ?
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Post by newey on Mar 9, 2018 6:59:07 GMT -5
Using the one push/pull to switch between tone caps is fine. Understand that this mod is useful for those who love to twiddle with the tone knob. With the tone knob at "10", the caps are effectively out of the circuit and switching between the caps would not make any difference. As you turn the tone knob down, however, the different caps will give you a different "sweep".
The second mod-where did you find that, by the way? I'm not a fan of that one at all, and I doubt you will be either. If the goal was to cut the tone pot, or both pots, out of the circuit, there are better ways to do so.
As shown, the switch takes the tone pot out of the circuit, but also disconnects the ground of the volume pot. This leaves the volume pot in the circuit, but instead of it being wired as a potentiometer, it is now wired as a rheostat. This will not operate the way a regular volume control would, and the whole set-up has the potential to be noisy as well.
A better way to achieve the same thing is with a so-called "solo switch" that take both pots entirely out of the circuit. This will add both volume and brightness, and moreso than the one you show which only takes the tone pot out of circuit.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 9, 2018 7:21:30 GMT -5
Here is the link for the mod link
Is there a chance you can show me the solo switch wiring please ?
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Post by newey on Mar 9, 2018 21:51:38 GMT -5
There are a number of ways to do this. Here is one way. This takes both the volume and tone pots completely out of the circuit. I have omitted the pickup ground wires and other grounds for clarity. I have also shown it with the pot upside down, since that is the way you will be wiring it.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 13, 2018 7:22:45 GMT -5
I have finally decided which way to go. I have ordered the Schaller mega switch and I am going to go with this wiring : and the solo switch from newey. Which way would you go with the second push pull ?I do not think that I am going to use the cap mode.
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Post by newey on Mar 13, 2018 21:30:10 GMT -5
Well, you could use the second P/P for coil cutting one or both HBs.
I assume the schematic comes courtesy of Schaller, and is presumably correct. I checked about half of it and it seems OK. It has only a single V and T.
The wiring diagram, however, shows 2 tone pots- but the second one isn't connected to anything. Also, the wire colors, particularly the yellow, make it very difficult to tell what is going on at the switch. So, I can't vouch for the diagram, I would need an enlargement of the switch wiring with better color contrast. This also means I can't begin to figure how to tell you to wire the coil split switch, if you decide that's what you want.
There are other options for the second P/P as well, you could add a phase switch or use the "half-out-of-phase" mod.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 19, 2018 0:19:59 GMT -5
I have finally managed to highlight the yellow cables with blue so that you can get a better idea of the wiring.
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Post by newey on Mar 19, 2018 6:10:05 GMT -5
In trying to research the "M" model of the Megaswitch, I couldn't find a switch logic/pinout diagram anywhere on the web. But it looks like the diagram you posted is one from Schaller itself? If so, and assuming you can read it, it ought to be OK. The blue lines help a little, but it's still tough to see what's going on there. There are 24 lugs on the switch, 2 sets of 12 back-to-back. It is tough to see which connections are wired to one side vs. the other, and which may connect across two lugs at once. Although, if it is Schaller's diagram, it makes me wonder that the second tone pot is shown disconnected . . . The "solo switch" would be added between the switch commons and the volume pot (shown as an orange wire from the 6th lug). The solo switch would go "in-line" on the orange wire. Coincidently, I also made the wire into the switch an orange color.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 20, 2018 16:10:19 GMT -5
I managed to process the image in photoshop so that you can distinguish the yellow cable a little bit better . The solo switch is fairly easy to install thanks to your diagram , what about the coil split though? It should be before the 5 way switch , right ?
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Post by newey on Mar 20, 2018 20:23:37 GMT -5
Correct.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 21, 2018 4:23:22 GMT -5
How should I do it ?
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Post by newey on Mar 21, 2018 5:27:46 GMT -5
Do you want to cut both HBs together to single coil? Or only one or the other?
Doing one HB allows for SC-HB combos. Doing both gives both SCs together, so you get the SC-SC combo at position 3, with neck SC at 4 and 5, bridge SC at 1 and 2.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 21, 2018 5:39:21 GMT -5
I would prefer both please .
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Post by newey on Mar 21, 2018 6:11:27 GMT -5
Here you go. Several notes: 1) This is shown as if the push/pull pot were upside down, the way you will be wiring it IRL. This way, you get the split when pulled, normal HB when down. 2) I have used Seynour Duncan wire colors since you didn't say what pickups you had. The white wire is shown as gray for visibility. The red/white pair from one HB goes to one side of the switch, the red/white pair from the other goes to the other side. 3) This splits one HB to the screw coil and the other to the slug coil, so that you get hum-cancellation in position 3. This assume the pickups are identical; if not, some changes may need to be made. 4) If you want to split to a specific coil for each HB (i. e., split the neck to screw coil specifically), this may need to be changed so as to swap the "hot" and ground wires around. Likewise if you want to split to both inner coils or both outer coils- which may also involve rotating one of the HBs 180°
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 21, 2018 6:22:37 GMT -5
Thank you , I don't know what i would do without your help in the forum !!!! Now I need to find a way to combine this with the mega switch ...
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 21, 2018 6:53:47 GMT -5
If I am right that means that I am going to have coil splits in positions 1,3, 5. In the positions 3 and 4 (parallel ) I am not going to have coil splits right ? Basically the push pull connects the selected coil to the ground . Am I right or am I missing something ?
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Post by newey on Mar 21, 2018 13:25:11 GMT -5
You're missing something- and apparently, so am I . First, with the switch pulled up, you will indeed have coil splits in positions 1, 3, and 5. I'm going to have to look closer at that Megaswitch to be sure what you will get in positions 2 and 4. I thought you would get coil splits in those positions also, but now that I think on it, you may get no sound in those positions. Which would, to me, be unacceptable, and which can probably be fixed, but I'll have to look a bit deeper. One pickup is indeed shorted to ground, but the other is shorted to hot; this is how you get the alternate coils for hum-cancelling. But how this all sorts out with the Megaswitch in the parallel settings is a big question mark.
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 21, 2018 17:18:44 GMT -5
newey the strategy you have works well when there is always a series link. But in cases like this where sometimes there's a link and sometimes there are parallel paths it doesn't fit. Something like this might be a way to make things happen without having dead spots in the parallel selections, and without the need to start from scratch on the drawing. The positions (2 and 4) where the two coils of a HB are in parallel are unaffected. 1 and 5 are split (just one coil) 3 has one south and one north for hum-cancelling goodness.
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Post by newey on Mar 21, 2018 21:07:08 GMT -5
RT- Yeah, the second time I thought on it some more and realized the parallel settings were going to be a problem. Good work on the solution.
George:
Now all we have to do is translate the schematic to a wiring diagram. This however may take me a while to get to.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 21, 2018 22:02:15 GMT -5
Guys you are both amazing . Thank you heaps both of you !!!
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Mar 23, 2018 5:36:20 GMT -5
Alright guys , I hope that this will be my final question. Based on retread's schematic the neck pickup slug coil = south and the screw coil =north vs bridge pickup which is slug coil =north and the screw coil = south. My pickups are the Dimarzio paf pro for neck link and the Bill Lawrence L-500xl for the bridge linkThe first question is which chart is right ? or link I am talking about the Lawrence pick up. The second question is if with all the pickups the north is the top coil (slug) , should I place the neck pick up upside down in the guitar or it does not play a role the position but only the wiring ?
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Post by newey on Mar 23, 2018 6:19:42 GMT -5
As I said earlier, if it matters to you whether you are selecting inner coils (or, conversely, outer coils), then rotating one (or the other) pickup 180° may be needed to accomplish this. Typically, with most HBs, one South coil paired with one North coil, so as to give hum-cancellation, will give you one inner coil paired with one outer. If the HBs are identical, it is unlikely that the small difference in coil position between inner and outer coils will make any discernible difference, but YMMV.
Your confusion over Lawrence pickups is understandable. That's because of a bit of history Involving "Bill Lawrence" (real name: Willy Stich, I believe), who lost the rights to use the name "Bill Lawrence" to another company. So, there are now two different companies: "Bill Lawrence USA", whose wiring colors are shown on our chart, and the original Bill Lawrence, one of whose pickups, now marketed as "Wilde", you have. So use the wire colors in the link you posted to Wilde pickups.
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george1980
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Post by george1980 on Apr 4, 2018 6:58:38 GMT -5
Alright gents, first of all a big thank you to newey and to reTrEaD for their awesome help because without them I would never be able to figure out how to wire the guitar correctly . I finished the wiring a couple of days ago and I can say that it is a success. When it operates in single coil mode , the transitioning between the positions 1-5 is well balanced both volume and tone wise. The solo switch does not have this wow factor that I was expecting but probably I was expecting too much. It is interesting though the fact that you can see how much the electronic components are effecting the tone of your guitar and especially the high frequencies. Again thank you very much for your time and your effort.
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