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Post by frets on Aug 19, 2019 8:34:32 GMT -5
Dear Guitar Nutz Experts, my inquiry focuses on the potential configurations of Bourns Dual Gang Push-Pull Potentiometers. I have searched the forum and read the posts regarding its potential usages as a tone control to inhibit volumes from interacting, a bass cut, treble cut, or as a volume/effects pot. It is described as “two pots in one”. But its features can be accomplished with a regular pp pot (for the most part.). For example, let’s say you wanted to use the pot using John’s Cleartone Volume accompanied by an effect (e.g., phase). I don’t see how it can accomplish such. In addition, I an confused regarding the lack of diagrams revealing how it can be utilized as a Segway pot to avoid multiple volume conflicts. It simply seems to be a limited pot and I would like to do “moe” with it. I do not know what that might be; however, schematics are devoid on the internet. Do you ecperts have any ideas?
Thank you
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Post by newey on Aug 19, 2019 11:39:05 GMT -5
I am unfamiliar with this particular pot. Do you have a link to it, or a Bourns Part No.?
What do you mean by "Segway Pot"? A typical dual-gang pot is used to avoid interaction between controls by wiring the two gangs independently, just as if one had an LP with separate V and T controls, but with, say, either the 2 Vs or the 2 Ts controlled by a single knob instead.
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Post by frets on Aug 20, 2019 11:38:56 GMT -5
I meant “segue” as in an intermediary between two events or objects. Autocorrect got that one. Anyway, can’t find the part number, but you have the correct pot in mind. A Dual Gang atop a push-pull. How are these wired to function in the manner you suggested and can they be used for anything else?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 13:22:29 GMT -5
Well the Push Pull is just a Simple 2P2T switch ON/ON so can be used to Phase one way or another or on and off There are LOTS of things on the internet that use them just most show them as a Toggle Switch, which is the same circuit but for NON Electronic People they like to show the Disc for a POT and a box for the switch. the Dual Gang thats a bit more complex, can use it with a 250K dual gang and make it do 125K or 500K depending on how you play the dual gang in line. The other MAGICAL things you can do is turning the 2nd Pot in to a Switch of sorts   So using DUAL GANG pots, you can change from 250K/500K for the Tone Pot or 250K/125K and ive also drawn Mr John Hewitt ClearTone Volume Control for you |
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Post by frets on Aug 20, 2019 19:45:47 GMT -5
Hey Bunny,
Thanks...
I’m aware of the Cleartone and was using it as an example of how worthless a Bourns Dual Gang Push Pull Pot is, given it’s Dual Gang feature does nothing and does not allow what one may typically use a Dual Gang pot for. I’ve yet to find a useful diagram of how this pot is utilized within tone entanglement problems; nor, any diagrams that can’t be accomplished by a regular push-Pull(e.g., hi pass low pass pot). The Bourns Dual Gang Push Pull is not two pots in one, it’s a pot with an extra row of lugs that do nothing that a regular push pull can do. Tell me if I’m wrong.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 20, 2019 23:52:13 GMT -5
Im not sure whats in contention here.
A dual-ganged pot could be useful for a few different things, even though they are not common on guitars. Another one could be to take an LP and convert its two treble controls to dual-ganged master treble and master bass. Just thinking....
Independently, a dpdt switch is handy for multiple different wiring mods.
So its up to tbe designer, but with this gadget you can combine a couple of such tricks on one knob.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 2:32:47 GMT -5
You will have to do some LINK or IMAGE to this POT I know what a Dual Gang is, two pots in one.. tho im not sure even myself what you would call Two pots in one case (ie being able to move both of them) that would be with out a Push Pull as no one has designed one yet. I've played with Pot and Push Pull ones pulling them apart and put them back with values and boards i want, so sort of know how they work well. the Bourns bit doesnt mean nothing to me as its just a Brand make, there are other makes and maybe from the same makers but from a side door like most Tech! --------------- I use Dual Pot but for different reason  1P6T switch, for a Bass Active Guitar to Passive. When the Bass Active was turned off, it went to Passive so didnt need its Mid/Bass Tone Controls any more so had a Dual Pot system and replaced it with a 1P6T when in Passive making the Tone Cap changeable depending what degree the Now Ex-Mid/Bass Tone control was on ----- from what i can read  that your saying it has Place for a DUAL GANG , ie a BLANK PCB board and no Rotary bits inside What is NORMAL for PUSH PULL POTs I would like Dual Gang Push Pull pots myself as i do use them, but i have to buy a Dual Gang Pot and Push Pull one and Damage them so only ONE works.. but if any one wants BLANK PCB Pot boards or RINGS  sadly the Knobs are useless as they are Molded in to the Turner and i got a LOT of SINGLE TURNERS and blanking Tubes |
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Post by Yogi B on Aug 21, 2019 3:39:59 GMT -5
it’s Dual Gang feature does nothing and does not allow what one may typically use a Dual Gang pot for. Are you saying that one of the gangs shows no resistance changes when adjusting the potentiometer? If so that sounds like you've got a defective pot / batch of pots. You are unlikely to find a specific diagram, because it is just the same diagram as a standard two volume - two tone setup (modern wiring, with the tone controls before the volume controls), the difference being that the two tone pots are each replaced by one of the two gangs of the dual-gang pot, giving a single master tone control. Without a dual gang pot one would need to relocate the master tone control to the position in the circuit after the volume controls and the 3-way toggle switch, introducing the peculiarities associated with the '50s wiring style, which some of us do not wish to suffer. |
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Post by frets on Sept 3, 2019 15:10:05 GMT -5
A belated thanks Yogi, I’ve been deep in the woods of Colorado for two weeks. I completely understand how it functions as a master tone for two pickups or a setup of two pickup variations with a single tone pot. I also understand how it can be wired to serve as a hi pass lo pass pot. I was just being whiny that it could not do more.
Have you wired it as a two toner? My rationale for asking is, does the tone stay put for each of the two positions? Meaning, on the down to say the bridge, does that tone remain when the pot is pulled up to tone a neck or middle/neck? I assume it would.
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Post by thetragichero on Sept 3, 2019 16:43:48 GMT -5
do we have a link to one of these? I've never heard of such a thing
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Post by Yogi B on Sept 3, 2019 19:07:14 GMT -5
My rationale for asking is, does the tone stay put for each of the two positions? Meaning, on the down to say the bridge, does that tone remain when the pot is pulled up to tone a neck or middle/neck? I assume it would. No, that's not how this works the top section is like a regular dual-gang (not concentric) pot, and has no special mechanical interaction with the push-pull action besides allowing the shaft to move up and down. While what you describe would be a very useful option in some circumstances, the mechanical complexities probably precludes such a thing being readily available. Side Note: similar things to the anamnestic ability you describe have been implemented, but digitally not mechanically -- the first coming to my mind being the 'hidden' functions on ZVex's Sonar pedal. do we have a link to one of these? I've never heard of such a thing They are the same as those described by 52blue in this thread: Bournes dual, mini, push-pull - what's it for?Or more exactly the Bourns PDB183-GTR21 (splined shaft) and PDB183-GTR22 (solid shaft) documented here: PDB183-GTR Datasheet. |
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