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Post by merseymale on Dec 1, 2019 20:34:50 GMT -5
Hi!
I want to have a tone control that work on the bridge pickup but the neck pickup has no controls but both share the same master volume
If Strats can have separate tone controls why disgusting wiring work?
New
I got the following from DiMarzio:
“It's possible, but the tone control will affect both pickups when they are on together. That is unavoidable. The attached diagram shows the tone control assigned to the bridge pickup.
DiMarzio Inc.”
upload_2019-12-2_1-21-9.png
...But I can’t help thinking that a resistor placed across a pickup’s positive and negative wires would reduce just that pickup alone so a variable resistor -a pot- would too
it follows that adding a cap to that pot would only vary that pickup’s tone, not volume, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE?
anyone tried anything like this yet
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 1, 2019 21:48:52 GMT -5
Hi! I want to have a tone control that work on the bridge pickup but the neck pickup has no controls but both share the same master volume If Strats can have separate tone controls why disgusting wiring work? New I got the following from DiMarzio: “It's possible, but the tone control will affect both pickups when they are on together. That is unavoidable. The attached diagram shows the tone control assigned to the bridge pickup. DiMarzio Inc.” upload_2019-12-2_1-21-9.png ... But I can’t help thinking that a resistor placed across a pickup’s positive and negative wires would reduce just that pickup alone so a variable resistor -a pot- would too it follows that adding a cap to that pot would only vary that pickup’s tone, not volume, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE? anyone tried anything like this yet It doesn't work that way unless the pickups are combined in series with each other. If the pickups are combined in the usual parallel combinations, a resistor across one pickup will affect both pickups when they are combined in parallel. |
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Post by sumgai on Dec 2, 2019 0:26:23 GMT -5
I want to have a tone control that work on the bridge pickup but the neck pickup has no controls but both share the same master volume ..... I got the following from DiMarzio: “It's possible, but the tone control will affect both pickups when they are on together. That is unavoidable." ...But I can’t help thinking that a resistor placed across a pickup’s positive and negative wires would reduce just that pickup alone so a variable resistor -a pot- would too it follows that adding a cap to that pot would only vary that pickup’s tone, not volume, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE? Because in a standard (parallel) setup, if you have three components (Bridge pup, Neck pup and Tone control) all hooked up to the output jack, then the Tone control is, by definition, going to affect whatever pickup is connected to the output jack. In point of fact, a normal Stratocaster does exactly this, because it uses a two pole switch to assign the tone controls to individual pickups. But as luck would have it, there are flies in that particular ointment as well. Tone 1 is meant for the Neck, and Tone 2 is meant for the Middle, yes? Well, when you flick the pup selector switch to have both pickups on at the same time, they are in parallel, and that means that both Tone controls are in play. Likewise for choosing the Mid and Bridge pups at the same time, the Middle Tone control will also affect the tonality of the Bridge pup. Like DiMarzio said, that's a limitation that can't be gotten around - in fact, there's a Law in the electronics world covering that, but we need not go into it just now. What exactly is your intention here? sumgai |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 2, 2019 10:59:31 GMT -5
But that thing in the strats is kind of only because the switch isn’t actually 5T. If you really had 5 positions per pole...you’d need at least 3, but it could be done.
I’d like to note that even in series, a T across one pickup does affect the both in somewhat complex ways.
If the T is directly across the pickup, and there’s enough resistance between that and the switch, the Ts affect on the other pickup would be minimal. But then the normal interaction of the pickups (lower L and R of the parallel structure et al) is severely disrupted and it becomes more like straight mixing the pickups. It also isn’t going to pass much signal. So then maybe add an active buffer to each pickup, with the T pot on the input side of that, then mix the active outputs into the master V. Now they are completely isolated and won’t work quite the way most people would expect. Might be cool anyway, though.
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Post by merseymale on Dec 2, 2019 22:14:51 GMT -5
I want to have a tone control that work on the bridge pickup but the neck pickup has no controls but both share the same master volume ..... I got the following from DiMarzio: “It's possible, but the tone control will affect both pickups when they are on together. That is unavoidable." ...But I can’t help thinking that a resistor placed across a pickup’s positive and negative wires would reduce just that pickup alone so a variable resistor -a pot- would too it follows that adding a cap to that pot would only vary that pickup’s tone, not volume, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE? Because in a standard (parallel) setup, if you have three components (Bridge pup, Neck pup and Tone control) all hooked up to the output jack, then the Tone control is, by definition, going to affect whatever pickup is connected to the output jack. In point of fact, a normal Stratocaster does exactly this, because it uses a two pole switch to assign the tone controls to individual pickups. But as luck would have it, there are flies in that particular ointment as well. Tone 1 is meant for the Neck, and Tone 2 is meant for the Middle, yes? Well, when you flick the pup selector switch to have both pickups on at the same time, they are in parallel, and that means that both Tone controls are in play. Likewise for choosing the Mid and Bridge pups at the same time, the Middle Tone control will also affect the tonality of the Bridge pup. Like DiMarzio said, that's a limitation that can't be gotten around - in fact, there's a Law in the electronics world covering that, but we need not go into it just now. What exactly is your intention here? sumgai Hi! Thanks For your time I have the tele 4away mod (on a rotary switch) And I don’t want a mask the time I do want to tame the edge on the bridge pickup |
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Post by merseymale on Dec 2, 2019 22:17:14 GMT -5
But that thing in the strats is kind of only because the switch isn’t actually 5T. If you really had 5 positions per pole...you’d need at least 3, but it could be done. I’d like to note that even in series, a T across one pickup does affect the both in somewhat complex ways. If the T is directly across the pickup, and there’s enough resistance between that and the switch, the Ts affect on the other pickup would be minimal. But then the normal interaction of the pickups (lower L and R of the parallel structure et al) is severely disrupted and it becomes more like straight mixing the pickups. It also isn’t going to pass much signal. So then maybe add an active buffer to each pickup, with the T pot on the input side of that, then mix the active outputs into the master V. Now they are completely isolated and won’t work quite the way most people would expect. Might be cool anyway, though. I kind of want to avoid active circuits, thanks. I was hoping for/expecting a simpler solution TBH |
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Post by sumgai on Dec 3, 2019 11:56:11 GMT -5
mm, What you apparently want is to have two simple circuits not interact with each other, as they become combined into a complex circuit at the point of the Volume control. I'm afraid that that's simply not gonna happen, at least not without some active help, as pointed out by ashcatlt . The reason is that a buffer (an active ciruit that gives little or no gain) is meant to isolate one simple circuit from another. We can also do this with resistors, usually about 100KOhms in value, but that would greatly reduce the volume level, thus needing some kind of small amplifier before the signal goes out of the guitar anyway. I'm sorry, but while your dreams are valid, your desire for a simple way to accomplish those dreams isn't... valid, that is. You must either go the active route, or you'll need to compromise your dreams. Personally, if my Bridge pup were too edgy (too much bite), I'd either change my brand of strings (much cheaper), or I'd change the pickup itself. YMMV. HTH sumgai |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 3, 2019 13:07:05 GMT -5
Personally, if my Bridge pup were too edgy (too much bite), I'd either change my brand of strings (much cheaper), or I'd change the pickup itself. YMMV. I mean, either of those will affect the “both” position too.  I’m not sure maybe what the goal is. You CAN get an appropriate switch and have T only active at all when the one pickup is selected by itself, so that it’s completely out of circuit in all other positions. But if you want it to affect only one pickup even when it’s combined with others, there are no good passive options. I agree that an active solution isn’t worth it, but I did just post that video of how to power an active guitar without a battery.  |
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Post by frets on Dec 3, 2019 14:20:13 GMT -5
Ascait,
Did you post that video in this thread? Thanks..
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Post by frets on Dec 3, 2019 14:20:47 GMT -5
I meant Sumgai, sorry...
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 3, 2019 15:11:55 GMT -5
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Post by JohnH on Dec 3, 2019 15:21:55 GMT -5
You can sort-of do it on an LP if both volumes are turned down. Then turning one tone down to minimum only has a partial affect on the other pickup since they are separated by some of the volume pot resistance.
Many variations are possible, but they are generally all to subtle for me to appreciate.
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 3, 2019 15:59:33 GMT -5
I have the tele 4away mod (on a rotary switch) And I don’t want a mask the time I do want to tame the edge on the bridge pickup The usual 4-way Tele mod uses a 2P4T switch and doesn't lend itself to switching a tone control in or out of the circuit. But if the rotary switch you're using has more than 2 poles, it should be possible to connect the tone control only in the combinations you desire. What is a 'mask the time' ?? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 17:40:49 GMT -5
Signals are like water. They try and find the easiest way to ground , even if it's cheating and going down another pickup/tone to get there.
No respect for the flow
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 17:41:52 GMT -5
Have to teach you about the edit button |
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