Help with newbie toggle switch replacement

[allegro]

Hello,

I'm new to guitar wiring repairs and I need to replace the toggle switch on my old 70's Japanese Les Paul copy. As the the new switch isn't exactly like the old one, I would appreciate some advice to make sure I get it right.

The old switch is the box type, while the new one has the open design:

Another complication (for me) is that my wires aren't like most of the wires I've seen in how-to images: within the outer gray insulation there is exposed wiring and a core wire with white insulation. (Most pictures have multiple coloured wires or an outer braid. I know it all works out to be the same, but the difference is just enough to make me hesitate.)

There are three wires connected to the original switch: one from the middle lug to the jack, and the two outer lugs to the neck and bridge volume pots, respectively. Each of the three wires has its centre white core soldered to its lug, and the braided wire soldered together to the other surface of the switch (though for the jack wire this has broken away).

For the new switch, I've learned that the volume pots have to connect to the outer terminals of the switch (left in the photo), and that the two inner terminals need to be soldered together and connected to the jack. Presumably for these connections I'm just using the inner white core wires? What do I do with the braided wires? Do they all connect to the thicker (ground?) terminal on the other (right) side? In some diagrams I've seen there is a fourth wire connecting this terminal to the jack, but I only have three wires connected to the toggle, so I'm a little confused.

I'd appreciate any help directing me where to connect both the core and the braid of each of the three gray wires. Thank you.  And happy new year!

[Deleted]

Not bad video, i hope this explains better than i do in Mixed up English

[newey]

allegro:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

If the video AB posted doesn't help, just know that you've essentially sussed it out correctly. White insulated wires are the pickup "hot" connections, these go to the outer switch lugs as you suspected. Center lugs will be connected together and then to the output jack tip. Bare wires/braids are all grounded, and the jack's sleeve (or "barrel") Connection likewise needs to be grounded (you said this had come off, I believe).

[allegro]

Thank you for the video link and confirmation. So the outer connector of all three wires connect to the ground lug on the switch. Unlike the switch in the video, mine has the output and ground lugs reversed, so that all three hot connectors are on the same side.
So I guess it makes most sense for me to extend the insulated hot wires back along the length of the switch (left to right in my photo) and cut the exposed wires short to connect with the ground lug, rather than the other way around, which would have the exposed wires running right to left along the length? (Does it matter?)

[newey]

So I guess it makes most sense for me to extend the insulated hot wires back along the length of the switch (left to right in my photo) and cut the exposed wires short to connect with the ground lug, rather than the other way around, which would have the exposed wires running right to left along the length? (Does it matter?)

I'm not following what you mean here, but however you run the wires, just make sure that the stripped-back ends of the insulated white wires do not contact anything that is grounded. If you are using the grounding lug on the rear of your switch to attach the pickup grounds, then that lug needs to be grounded to the output jack sleeve as well.

[reTrEaD]

Jan 1, 2020 14:19:03 GMT -5 allegro said:

So I guess it makes most sense for me to extend the insulated hot wires back along the length of the switch (left to right in my photo) and cut the exposed wires short to connect with the ground lug, rather than the other way around, which would have the exposed wires running right to left along the length? (Does it matter?)

The insulated hot wires you refer to are the inner conductor of the shielded cable. The 'exposed' wires are the shield. These wire strands are spiraled around the white insulation of the inner conductor and are covered by the grey outer jacket of the cable.

The shields should all connect to the heavy inner-most lug (on the right side) of the new switch. It looks like the cable connected to the (pole) middle lug of the old switch has its outer shield wires broken off?

[allegro]

Thank you for all the clear responses.  So this is what it would look like:

This is making sense to me now.

When I opened up the guitar I also found that the bridge ground wire had become detached, but it's hard to tell where it had been connected.  I think it may have been the ground terminal of the jack.  Would this make sense?  Or should it be attached to one of the pots?  (I'm finding conflicting information online.  And most diagrams show lots of ground connections between pots, while mine doesn't seem to have them.  Is this a problem?)

Thanks again.

[allegro]

Sorry, the text on the wires in my first diagram should show "volume pot" instead of "pup".

[frets]

From what I can see, the ground wire seems to just “be there” disconnected, but intact. All you have to do with that bridge ground wire is solder it to the back of a pot.

[newey]

Frets said:

All you have to do with that bridge ground wire is solder it to the back of a pot.

Which is true, provided the backs of your pots are all grounded together already. (They seem to be so grounded, but it wouldn't hurt to check with a multimeter if you have one).

The basics of grounding:

1) All the "Ground" wires in your guitar ultimately must connect to the jack sleeve.

2) There are 2 main ways to achieve this: "Star grounding" and "daisy-chaining". In Star grounding, all the grounds collect at a central point, and from that point are wired to the jack sleeve. In "daisy Chaining", typically the backs of pots are used to connect the grounds in a string-like arrangement- one ground goes to a pot back, which is in turn wired to the next pot back, which might have other ground wires connected, and then on to the next pot, etc., then the final pot is connected to the jack sleeve.

3) Most guitar manufacturers daisy-chain the grounds using the back of the pots. Most other types of electronics gear (your amp, for example) use some form of star grounding.

4) Recognize that the term "ground" is just a convenient shorthand, since this is an AC circuit, not DC. "Signal return" would be a more correct term, but all the diagrams, etc that you will find all use the terms "hot" and "ground" as a shorthand- which is fine, so long as we recognize that the terms are just shorthands used for convenience. (There are times when the distinction does become important to recognize).

I use star grounding, usually soldering everything to a washer, which is then screwed into the side of the control cavity. If I have shielded the cavity, then the shielding makes contact with ground through the screw. I do so because it is difficult to solder to the backs of pots without damaging the internals (which nowadays are mostly plastic). If you are going to solder to the backs of pots, it is helpful to rough the surface a bit with some sandpaper so that the solder adheres better.

With a multimeter, it would probably take about 20 seconds to check that all the pot backs are grounded together and connected to the output jack. But if you don't check and one of the grounds is bad, you could easily spend hours troubleshooting things before you figure out that you had a dodgy ground connection. (Actually, you don't need a multimeter, a simple continuity tester would work as well).

[allegro]

All you have to do with that bridge ground wire is solder it to the back of a pot.

Does it matter whether the bridge ground wire is connected to a pot or directly to the jack? (I'm gussing it would be easier to solder to the jack lug than to the back of a pot.)

provided the backs of your pots are all grounded together already

When you say all the pots have to be grounded together, does it have to be with a separate ground wire, or is the shield in the regular wiring sufficient?

As far as I can tell, each of my volume pots is connected to its tone pot and grounded to it with the shield wire, but there is nothing connecting the neck pickup pots with the bridge pickup pots, except for the fact that they're both connected (and grounded) to the switch.   Is this ok?

[newey]

As far as I can tell, each of my volume pots is connected to its tone pot and grounded to it with the shield wire, but there is nothing connecting the neck pickup pots with the bridge pickup pots, except for the fact that they're both connected (and grounded) to the switch. Is this ok?

Yes, provided the switch frame is, in turn, grounded to the jack sleeve. Again, I advise checking all these things.

When you say all the pots have to be grounded together, does it have to be with a separate ground wire, or is the shield in the regular wiring sufficient?

Either way is fine, again, so long as it all goes back to the jack sleeve at some point.

Does it matter whether the bridge ground wire is connected to a pot or directly to the jack? (I'm gussing it would be easier to solder to the jack lug than to the back of a pot.)

No, doesn't matter, and see my reply above re: soldering to pots.

[allegro]

Great -- I think I can do this.  Thanks for all your help.