Series/parallel for 2 HBs with one switch?

[walterodim]

Hi there, I have a question for those more knowledgeable with wiring than me. I'm rewiring my Strat, and I'm having trouble figuring out one aspect of it. I'm using a Seymour Duncan SH-5 Custom in the bridge, a Dimarzio PAF Pro in the neck, 500k master volume, tone control for just the neck pickup and a mini-switch. I'd like the mini-switch to switch both pickups from series to parallel. The switch I bought is from Allparts, it's a four pole double throw on-on mini switch. Can anyone tell me exactly how I should wire it? Thanks a lot.

[sumgai]

Walter,

The answer is yes, but first..... to the forums!

We could show you at least one way, out of several possibilities, but it would be better if we knew just two more items of information:

1) How many wires are coming out of each of your humbuckers?

2) Do you want to treat each humbucker as if it were a single coil unit, and then wire one unit in series or parallel with the other? Or are you asking to have each coil within each humbucker wired to the switch such that the two coils are wired either in series or parallel.

It's your choice, but either way, we're here to help!


sumgai

[walterodim]

Thanks for responding.

Both humbuckers are four conductor.

edit: I should've mentioned that I'm using a three-position Strat switch for pickup selection.

I'm trying to wire the switch so in one position both humbuckers operate in series, and in the other position both humbuckers operate in parallel. I'm not trying to mix coils between the two pickups.

[sumgai]

walter,

I'm trying to wire the switch so in one position both humbuckers operate in series, and in the other position both humbuckers operate in parallel. I'm not trying to mix coils between the two pickups.

Ah, then this exercise becomes extremely easy.

EDIT
Changed schematic to add 3-way switch, took out volume and tone controls.
/edit

One thing I'd like to recommend is that you consider using a 4 way switch instead of the three way. This would give you both series and parallel in one switch, instead of having to install another one (and the attendent additional hole in your guitar).

That said, your current Allparts switch will do the job as you have specified. We'll make one assumption, and that is that your four-wire pups are already wired as you wish, because we won't be messing around with that stuff.

Here's the basic idea:


In this drawing, the 'up' position is parallel, and the down position is series. When the the 3-way is in either Bridge only or Neck only, the S/P switch has no effect. The volume and tone controls may be mounted as desired.

As usual, if this doesn't make any sense, then be sure to ask for help!

HTH


sumgai

[wolf]

walterodim
Since you have 4 conductor wiring coming out of each pickup, you can have a series / parallel switch for each humbucker and a third switch for controlling series / parallel wiring for both pickups.
When both pickups are on, this would give you 8 sound choices:
Both pickups In parallel:
1) Neck Parallel & Bridge Parallel
2) Neck Parallel & Bridge Series
3) Neck Series & Bridge Parallel
4) Neck Series & Bridge Series

and you get the other 4 sounds by putting both pickups in series.

With each pickup used individually, you'd get 4 more sounds:
Neck pickup (alone) series or parallel
Bridge pickup (alone) series or parallel

There's a dozen sounds you can get with 2 humbuckers that have 4 conductor wiring.
(Choosing pickups individually is a little tricky. I also believe the diagram for such wiring at www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.1wiringdiagrams.humbuckerwiringmods/
only shows series / parallel switching between neck and bridge pickups but not individual selection).
(And sumgai posted his information just a few minutes before I posted this.)
Is this a helpful board or what?

[walterodim]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. They sound good, but I'm pretty committed to my original idea. I already know how to wire up the volume, tone, and three-way switch, I'm just having trouble with the mini-switch. This is especially difficult because guitarelectronics.com and dimarzio.com have two different ways of wiring a DPDT switch for series parallel. If anyone could just tell me how to wire the mini-switch, I'd be greatly appreciative.

[UnklMickey]

hi walterodim,

i think there's a slight gap in the communication here.

you have to remember who you're talking to.

these guys can come up with all sorts of ways to do things.



what was a little ambiguous is:

"I'd like the mini-switch to switch both pickups from series to parallel."


does that mean that the mini-switch changes the coils in each HB to a series or parallel pair.

and if selector switch is in the "both" position, those (series or parallel) pairs are in parallel with each other.








OR (meaning #2)

when in the selector is in the "both" position, the neck and bridge will be switched from a parallel connection to a series connection. (the individual coils in the HBs stay in series).





once you clarify that, these guys can come up with a plan.




unk

[walterodim]

I think it's your first scenario. The three way switch is just to switch the two pickups in the normal fashion, ex: bridge, both, neck. The mini switch is going to control both pickups, and they'll be series in one position and parallel in the other.

[sumgai]

walter,

I've now modified the above schematic to remove the volume and tone controls, and to show the Strat-style 3-way switch. I also took the time to draw the pickups as "black box" types instead of showing individual coils.

But, as usual, if this doesn't seem to be what you want, then don't hesitate to ask for something else!! Since no two designers think exactly alike, some one else here may come closer to your goals. If that's the case, don't worry about a thing, there are no egos here. (But don't look at unklmickey's Level Rating!)


sumgai

[jhng]

Hi Walter,

As I understand it you want to do a series/parallel for each HB: but you want them combined into one toggle.

The four-pole double throw (4PDT) switch you've got is basically two DPDT switches jammed together and sharing a single toggle.

The thing to do is think of it as two series/parallel switches (one for each pup) and wire each one separately.

In order to find the right wiring diagram for each pup rummage around on the manufacturer's website. You should be able to find wiring diagrams for series/parallel switches that take into account the colour codes that each manufacturer uses for four-wire HBs.

If you can't find diagrams for each pup, try and find the colour codes for the wires and someone here will leap to the rescue!

Hastings

[UnklMickey]

you know, Hastings, that's exactly what i was thinking too.

but since Sumgai took the other direction, i wonder if my descriptions were also too ambiguous.





unk

[CheshireCat]

Note the DPDT toggle switch in this pic:



Treat your 4PDT as two DPDT toggles fused together (which is essentially what it is) and do that wiring with each pair of poles.

Mind you, this is from the Seymour Duncan website, so you'll need to adjust the color codes for the DiMarzio accordingly.

Chesh

[UnklMickey]

hey Chesh,

that's nice!

now it doesn't matter what Walterodim meant.

between your post and Sumgai's, it's all covered.



earlier in this thread there was a mention of different ways to wire a switch for series/parallel

the one from Guitarnuts is the same as Chesh's,

except that the "jumper wire" makes the series connection through both sections of the switch.

in the strictest sense, Chesh's has one less failure possibility.






in the case of the guitarelectronics series / parallel wiring, it's just rotated 180^o from the guitarnuts drawing.

[walterodim]

Thanks for your help, guys. jhng, I was of the same opinion as you about the switch, I'm glad you agree. Now i just have to figure out what pairs of poles link up.

Please forgive me if any of my descriptions have been somewhat vague, I'm not a wiring expert, by a long shot.

[UnklMickey]

"Please forgive me if any of my descriptions have been somewhat vague, I'm not a wiring expert, by a long shot. "

no worries.

don't much matter what your background is, vagueness is hard to avoid in text conversations.

it's an art i haven't yet mastered.

i just try to read what i write, and then imagine how many different meanings can be assigned to it.

if the only other ones are humorous, rather than contradictory, i leave it alone.



unk

[jhng]

walterodim said:

Now i just have to figure out what pairs of poles link up.

Actually a DPDT is just two Single pole switches jammed together. So the four pole switch can just be thought of as four single pole switches jammed together.

More to the point: Your switch should have twelve terminals. They will probably be arranged in a four-by-three grid. Each six-by-two set of terminals is one DPDT. Once you've got the colour codes sorted out just follow Chesh or Unk's diagram twice over.

As to vagueness, I once met someone who wrote a whole PhD thesis on the topic.

Hastings

[Runewalker]

unklmickey said:

Please forgive me ....[it] .... don't much matter .... vagueness .... an art i haven't yet mastered.

unk

Awww Unk, you're too hard on yourself. You're plenty vague when you work at it.

[wolf]

jhng
Actually, a DPDT switch is two single pole double throw switches jammed together.

[UnklMickey]

jhng said:

...Each six-by-two set of terminals is one DPDT. ...

aw Hastings,

you were doin' so good until you got sloppy for a second.

we know you meant to say two-by-three.

runewalker said:

...Awww Unk, you're too hard on yourself. You're plenty vague when you work at it.

problem is: i'm even more vague when i don't work at it!



unk




"Cryptic is"


EDIT:

i just saw Wolf's post, after i posted mine.

Hastings, i guess you weren't doing quite so good.

you were vague about the throws.

i'll bet you weren't even trying to be.

[jhng]

I stand corrected!

The four-pole-double-throw switch is two double-pole-double-throw switches jammed together.

It has twelve terminals arranged in a four-by-three grid.

Each half of the switch (a group of six terminals arranged in a two-by-three grid) is one double-pole-double-throw switch.

Has that exorcised the vagueness demon?

(On vagueness - I just checked over a proposed 10-year commercial lease only to discover that due to a couple of typos (not mine) no rent was payable under it. Sorted it out: but it could've led to a very red-faced call to the insurers!)

Hastings

[moloch]

is it possible to do this (one switch to turn both humbuckers series or parallel at the same time, but individually) with a DPDT switch (i.e. push/pull pot)? I made another post, should still be near the top, but I really need this information so I'm asking here as well since this already has some people possibly watching it.

[sumgai]

moloch,

is it possible to do this (one switch to turn both humbuckers series or parallel at the same time, but individually) with a DPDT switch (i.e. push/pull pot)? I made another post, should still be near the top, but I really need this information so I'm asking here as well since this already has some people possibly watching it.

You just asked if a DPDT switch can do the job of changing one humbucker from series to parallel, and the answer to that is "Yes". But you have two Hb's, and you just said that you want to change both of them at the same time, from series to parallel. Again, this can be done, but to do it a the same moment, you'll need that 4PDT switch you mentioned you bought, way back in your first post. With that, all can be accomplished.

(Errr. guys, I'm embarrassed to admit that I can't upload to my file storage area right now . I don't know what's going on, but it's not on my end . Can someone please whip up a drawing for moloch and post it here?)

Hang tight, man, one of use will come through in a few moments.....


sumgai

[moloch]

I'm not the same guy from farther up in the post. But you're saying with the dpdt I can play with the neck in parallel, then switch over and play with the bridge in parallel?

Or you're saying I can do one or the other, OR use thes switch to put the pups in parallel with eachother?

Edit: i just reread your post and im pretty sure you're meaning if i want to modify both pups with the switch I'll need two dpdt's or a 4pdt. My situation is explained much better in the post "series/parallel push/pull, 2 humbuckers" or something like that.

thanks.