Trouble with 3 EMG HB's

[vonFrenchie]

Hey guys. Im planning on building a new guitar. I have everything chosen but the humbuckers. Seeing the white and gold Gibson Custom SG's and Pauls gave me inspiration to build a guitar with three humbuckers. So I went through EMG's site (I have an EMG 81/85 setup in my Jackson) and searched for pickups. I settled on the 81/85/89. The only problem is the wiring.

I am planning to have a 3 volume 1 tone setup with a 5-way switch. The 81 will be at the bridge, 89 center, 85 at the neck. The problem is the 89 has a wierd setup (its can be switched between a single coil and an hb). Also I havent been able to find any schematics that have 3 humbuckers 3 volumes 1 tone and a 5 way switch. Can anyone help me one this?

Here is the link to the EMG89 schematics www.emginc.com/downloads/wiringdiagrams/EMG-89.pdf

[CheshireCat]

vonfrenchie said:

The problem is the 89 has a weird setup (its can be switched between a single coil and an hb).

What's weird about it?

[vonFrenchie]

Not your average pickup. Thats what I mean

[Mike Richardson]

What exactly do you want the 89 to do? Or, more accurately, when do you want it done? You can use a Super Switch to select whether the 89 is in humbucker or single coil mode. Let me know what you want, and it can most likely be done.

[vonFrenchie]

This is the best description I have.

I want 1 volume per pickup. EMG sends a special volume pot (push/pull) with their 89. I want to wire my guitar to have a 5 way pickup selector (or without), EMG 81/89/85, 1 tone pot, and an EMG PA2 (gain booster) with a Stereo or Mono output. All active.

Thats pretty much it. The most important thing is the 3 volumes and 1 tone. I can do without the PA2 but Id like to have it in there.

[CheshireCat]

vonfrenchie said:

This is the best description I have.

I want 1 volume per pickup. EMG sends a special volume pot (push/pull) with their 89. I want to wire my guitar to have a 5 way pickup selector (or without), EMG 81/89/85, 1 tone pot, and an EMG PA2 (gain booster) with a Stereo or Mono output. All active.

Thats pretty much it. The most important thing is the 3 volumes and 1 tone. I can do without the PA2 but Id like to have it in there.

But here's my question . . . what's so difficult about any of this?

1. Each pickup pipes straight to it's respective vol pot. In the case of the 89, it goes to the push/pull pot that's included with it. Simply follow the wiring instructions.
2. The leads from the vol pots run to a standard strat switch, assuming you just want basic strat switching.
3. After that, the output from the switch runs to the tone pot.
4. After that, the output from the tone pot runs to the PA2.
5. After that, the output from the PA2 runs to the jack.

I don't get where the stereo output comes into play, given the fact that a stereo jack is usually used to a) provide mono output, and b) to turn on the battery. Where does stereo output come into play? Are you using piezo as well, and want to run two concurrent amp systems?

Chesh

[vonFrenchie]

thinking about it again. There is nothing difficult about this. I dont even know why I had problems.

My old drummer days are coming back to haunt me.

[Ripper]

Oh!.....youre a drummer....thats explains it. ( Im kidding vonfrenchie )

When I had my EMG's installed on my RR Jackson, the guy who did it told me that you have to follow EMG's installation instructions to the letter or youll have problems.
I dont know why, but I guess he had, had experience with them before and knew all about the beasts ahead of time.

[UnklMickey]

cheshirecat said:

...I don't get where the stereo output comes into play, given the fact that a stereo jack is usually used to a) provide mono output, and b) to turn on the battery....Chesh

i think Ric would disagree. they do use stereo jacks for stereo outputs.

www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19502.pdf

[vonFrenchie]

Yeah. the official EMG diagrams use stereo jacks

[vonFrenchie]

One last thing. Do you recommend two batteries or one. (space is not a factor)

[CheshireCat]

unklmickey said:

cheshirecat said:

...I don't get where the stereo output comes into play, given the fact that a stereo jack is usually used to a) provide mono output, and b) to turn on the battery....Chesh

i think Ric would disagree. they do use stereo jacks for stereo outputs.

www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19502.pdf

Right, and for what reason? Usually either mag/piezo, or bass strings to one system and treble (guitar) strings to another, and so on, in the case of touch guitar. So, what is Ric using stereo output for specifically?

vonfrenchie said:

One last thing. Do you recommend two batteries or one. (space is not a factor)

Two, along with battery boxes.

[vonFrenchie]

Ok... another question. I have (drawn up) wired the three vol. to the 1-3 positions on the switch. I havent been able to find a 3 pickup setup that uses 3 volumes pots. This is all I need to know. What do I do with positions 4-8 on the 5-way switch?

it would be a hassle if I didnt use battery boxes.

[CheshireCat]

vonfrenchie said:

Ok... another question. I have (drawn up) wired the three vol. to the 1-3 positions on the switch. I havent been able to find a 3 pickup setup that uses 3 volumes pots. This is all I need to know. What do I do with positions 4-8 on the 5-way switch?

What are you talking about?

[vonFrenchie]

ok. simply by the lack of my knowledge of strat style switches (never even touched a strat) I dont quite know how to wire one.

[CheshireCat]

vonfrenchie said:

ok. simply by the lack of my knowledge of strat style switches (never even touched a strat) I dont quite know how to wire one.

Oh, well, basically, there are four lugs. One for each pickup, and the output, and there are two sets of these, making two poles.

Basically, the leads from the N, M, and B, pickups run to their respective lugs, and on the 2nd and 4th positions, the wiper covers both of the adjacent lugs.

Chesh

[vonFrenchie]

that went right over my head.

I under stand the two sets of four lugs, the two poles part and the pickup/output part. The rest is greek to me. Im not very knowledgeable in the 5-way switches.

Is there any way I can wire it so that all three pickups are working at the same time?

[UnklMickey]

cheshirecat said:

...Right, and for what reason? Usually either mag/piezo, or bass strings to one system and treble (guitar) strings to another, and so on, in the case of touch guitar. So, what is Ric using stereo output for specifically?

uhh, gee, wasn't that clear in the link?

on that particular model, the stereo jack has the bridge pup going to the tip, and the neck pup going to the ring.

both are summed when the mono jack is used.

[CheshireCat]

unklmickey said:

cheshirecat said:

...Right, and for what reason? Usually either mag/piezo, or bass strings to one system and treble (guitar) strings to another, and so on, in the case of touch guitar. So, what is Ric using stereo output for specifically?

uhh, gee, wasn't that clear in the link?

Uh, gee, no, it wasn't clear, and uh, gee, please drop the condescending attitude.

I've never seen that particular application (sending the bass pickup of a set of strings to one output and the lead pickup of the same set of strings to another output) and ergo it wasn't immediately apparant, until I examined it more closely.

Now, I tend to take a frightfully practical approach, and am very judicious in the allocation of jacks and what not, not to mention space and so on.

Now, that said, I did allude to that possibility, or close to it, in my original response. I suggested, "Usually either mag/piezo, or bass strings to one system and treble (guitar) strings to another, and so on, in the case of touch guitar."

So, I personally don't see the practicality of that, much the same way I don't see much of the practicality of Jag switching, but then Ric's have always had their own way of doing things.

Fair enough?

Chesh

[vonFrenchie]

I always thought the Jag switching was pretty innovative, tedious but innovative. The only problem is that its so tedious that no matter how spectacular it is no one cares. I played a jag and thought of it as just another fender (which I dont like most fenders anyway with the exception of the jbass)

But I still have no clue how to wire a 5 way switch

this is what i have

N-|-
M-|-
-
--|-

Thats about it. if you can make sense of it.

[UnklMickey]

Chesh,


in all honesty, i thought when you asked how Ric was using the the stereo output, i thought:

"it's so obvious from the diagram, he couldn't possibly have even bothered to look!"

in all fairness, i guess some things that appear painfully obvious to one, might require a second look by someone else, depending on their familiarity.

as far as the practicality of Ric's inplementation, that's a judgement call, highly dependent on personal preference.

so, i expressed no opinion on it, other than to acknowledge that it's do-able, and if Vonfrenchie wants to do a stereo output, this is one possibility.

"and uh, gee, please drop the condescending attitude."

sure, sounds like an idea that could serve us both quite well.


________________________________________________



back on topic:

Vonfrenchie,

the standard 2-pole 5 position fender pickup switch,

uses one pole to select single pickups in positions 1,3,and 5 and adjacent pairs in positions 2 and 4.

it uses the other pole to select which tone control(s) are being used.

if you do only use one tone control, you could use that other side of the switch to add a 3rd pickup to the pair that would be selected in position 2.

(or, if you prefer, the pair that is selected in position 4 instead.)

i use the term other side, rather than other pole, because you would not connect the other pole to anything.

you would use 2 of the throws, and the only time those would be connected together would be in position 2.

(or in the case of the other 2, in position 4)


so in contrast with the stock Fender wiring:

neck
neck + middle
middle
middle + bridge
bridge



you could have:

neck
neck + middle + bridge
middle
middle + bridge
bridge



or you could wire it to have

neck
neck + middle
middle
neck + middle + bridge
bridge


is any of this close to what you had in mind?


unk

[vonFrenchie]

unklmickey said:

you could have:

neck
neck + middle + bridge
middle
middle + bridge
bridge

That is pretty much what I had in mind. I just have no clue how to wire it. Thats the only problem I have with the wiring.

ps I dont care for stereo output. If I did I would skip all of this and buy BB King's Gibson. I just want the batteries to turn on.

[UnklMickey]

no problem, i'll draw up the switching tomorrow.

or, if anyone else want's to jump in, you might even get a drawing sooner.



unk

vonfrenchie said:

....If I did I would skip all of this and buy BB King's Gibson....

if i knew you had that kind of money, i would have asked if you were interested in adopting. lol

[vonFrenchie]

wow... thanks alot man.

I wish I had that much money. I have a good quarter of it (this is for my new guitar). Ive always wanted a hollowbody and if I were to get one BB's would be towards the top of the list for me.

[UnklMickey]

hi Vonfrenchie,

if you go to GuitarNuts.com, John Atchley has a page that shows the "stock" wiring for a Fender Strat.



i've "stolen" a couple of the images, for our discussion here.



in his schematic above, the important thing to understand, is that when the switch is in position 2 or 4, the wiper (pole) is wide enough to span across the 2 contacts that are adjacent.

so if the switch was advanced 1 position "clockwise" (in the drawing), the wipers would contact BOTH the bridge and middle contacts.



i also "stole" his pictorial diagram:



a few things you will want to note here:

on the upper left part of the switch, which is being used to select the pickup(s), from left to right the connections are:

Common (wiper), Neck, Middle, Bridge


and on the lower left, which is used to select the tone control(s), it looks different:

Neck, Middle, Bridge, Common (wiper)


the s-shaped jumper connects the 2 common terminals to the volume control, which then feeds the output.





i've taken John's nice drawing, and butchered it to show you how you will make your connections:



of note here:

each of your pickups will connect FIRST to it's own volume control.

each volume control will output to the corresponding terminal on the switch.

the single tone control connects to the common of the pickup selector and the output jack (or in your case, the booster).

none of the ground connections have been shown.

the jumper has been removed, so the wiper of the lower right part of the switch is no longer connected.

when the selector is in the "neck + middle" position, the bridge will be connected via the blue wires and the "spanned" contacts on the lower right side.

this only applies to the stock Fender switch, and aftermarket switches that have 8 terminals.

one that have 7 terminals (the wipers are connected together internally) won't work this way.

if you don't already have a switch, a Megaswitch S will work just fine here.



you mentioned that you never worked on a strat, but i didn't know how much you have worked on other guitars and other electronics.

if you feel that i've "dumbed this down" way too much, don't take it as an insult.

i'm just not aware of your experience level yet.



you can probably piece this together with the instructions from EMG.

but, if you have any questions, or see something that you're not sure of, we can help you fill in the blanks.


unk

[vonFrenchie]

Ive worked alot on basses (hence the volume for each pickup thing... I like total control)

Thanks alot! This really got me back on track. What did he(or you) use to make those schematics (program)

[UnklMickey]

i'm not sure what John uses to make his schematics. (the first image)

he mentions on his site what he uses to do the pictorials (the second image)

but, i'll let you discover that on your own, on his site.

you'll find lots of other things, that will spark your creativity during the search.

as for the last drawing, i just edited his drawing with Microshaft Paint.



unk

[vonFrenchie]

This is what I have. Hopefully you can decipher it.

[UnklMickey]

i think i understand it.

one thing that you didn't draw was the connection to the low side (right side terminal) of the volume pots for the bridge and neck.

also, having the - connection of the battery going all the way around the ground "ring" before it goes to the booster might lead to noise problems.

you might be better off, if your grounds all "star" from the - terminal of the booster or maybe the back of the tone pot.

someone who has experience with active pickups will probably have better advice than i can give on that.



unk




EDIT:

i just noticed that the blue wire connects to the center terminal of the middle volume. i think that needs to connect to the bottom terminal.

[vonFrenchie]

I just drew it that way so It would be out of the way. In all actuality it will go straight to the bottom of the guitar and out to the batteries. It wont be near the ground. Also I shouldnt have put in the grounds. It would have been less of a mess.

And yes. The middle pot is placed wrong.

This is now what I have (excluding active)