Uhmm...help.

[moloch]

So I've got 2 push/pulls & a 3way toggle, two humbuckers (4conductor)

I want each pickup on a series/parallel switch. I know how to wire this all up and its all plain & simple..

the problem is, (well, right now I dont have the extra wire to go from the push/pull hotout to the switch, so I'm doing a 1pup, 1vol, push/pull setup) its putting my humbucker in single coil for NO apparent reason.

I've got it wired so that when the switch is up, white & red (the series link for Duncans) are conneted, black goes straight to hot and green & bare are straight to ground. When its down green & white are connected and red & black are connected and sent to hot. I realize this is backwards with parallel in the down position, but thats irrelevant, why the hell is it splitting my humbucker? I'm starting to run out of leads on my % pickups, I'm going to end up having to buy new pickups before this is all over and done with.

edit: www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_1vol_series-split-par.html

its wired exactly like that.

[sumgai]

moloch,

I'm gonna assume that you're using SD pick'emups, right? So we then have to assume that SD knows what they are doing in regards to color coding their own wires.

You didn't tell us if either switch position acts correctly, and if so, which one is it?

More questions: How do you know that the HB is being split instead of whatever it's supposed to be doing - did you tap each coil (slugs/screws) with a small screwdriver, or are you just relying on the sound? Have you traced each wire back into the pickup to be sure that the both coils are intact? And that the wire colors are indeed correct? Mistakes at the factory have been known to occur. Does the switch operate correctly (if its new, ignore this, but if it's well used.....)

In what way are you taking a "shortcut" (missing wire from the push-pull to the switch)? And why do you refer to only one push-pull switch, I thought you had two of them?

A suggestion: When you have to repeatedly mess around like this, consider using small alligator clips to clamp the leads together. This should work well for short term testing, but be carefull when inserting a pickguard back into a top-loading body - you don't wanna introduce a short circuit.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. Good luck!


sumgai


p.s. For the record, we use the word switch so often (by necessity), could you please refer to the other switch as either "selector" or even just "pickup" switch? Goes a long way towards preventing confusion, if you know what I mean.

[fobits]

Just adding to what Sumgai said, the first place to check would be the wiring on the back of the DPDT switch. If something is touching where it shouldn't, or if there is a solder bridge somewhere, that could produce the symptoms you describe.

Fer'instance... the diagram shows the white wire making a diagonal upward jump. If that wire is touching the terminal below, with the red on it, you would have a series/coil-split switch.

HTH.

[moloch]

Sorry if i was confusing. Ignore the fact that I own two dpdt push/pulls & one toggle. The only thing wired into my guitar right now is a bridge (Sduncan) humbucker and one volume (push/pull pot). Oh, and all 3 components are brand new.

There are no bridges anywhere, the guitar has been wired fine previously (iow the pickup is fine). Everything is exactly as it should be, and yes I'm relying on the sound to tell its coil split, and I can definitley tell. I'm not sure if either position is operating correctly, I've never heard this pickup (or any bridge pickup for that matter) in parallel.

What I meant by the missing wire (not exactly what i said...) wasn't that I'm taking a shortcut. I meant that I don't possess enough wire to put everything together. You have to wire the hot lead from the pup to dpdt, and then wire that same position on the dpdt to the selector. And I don't have enough wire to do that.

Well I didn't anyways, I solved that problem by cutting alot of the slack out off the wire going to the output jack. But thats irrellavent (sp?) as I need to get just this basic setup working right before I % up two pickups and my limited supply of wire.

thanks for the help.

edit: its pretty difficult for me to get to any sort of electronics store around here (I live on a military base). Its POSSIBLE, i'd just have to find someone willing to drive me out to town, which isn't easy since it wouldn't be a mutual trip, it would just be a ride. So my tools are very limited...basically I just have a soldering iron, gerber multitool & wire strippers to work with. I really need some damn braided wick. Anybody know any homebrew methods to remove solder as an alternative?

[moloch]

Ok, I'm stumped. I wired it up with a standard 1vol 1tone 3way toggle setup. It sounds like the neck is acting as it should, but the bridge is still DEFINATLEY split. There aren't any flaws in the wiring I've check it over quite a few times....well the tone pot is backwards so 0 is 10, but that doesnt make a difference it still works right.I've got all the color codes correct, both series links are soldered together and isolated & both grounds are soldered to the bare & grounded. The hots are on the switches like they should be and the pots are connected togehter as they should be. I don't know what the hell is wrong.

Starting to sound like I have to buy a new pup anyways. Damn.

[sumgai]

moloch,

If one pickup, one pot, and one DPDT switch does not act as it should, then there are only three possibilities. The pup is bad, the switch is bad, or your wiring job is bad. Not much else available for Mr. Murphy to work with.

You say the tone control is backwards, that's a sign that you didn't pay attention during that phase of following the diagram. Have someone else check your work, you're so close to the forest that you can no longer see any trees. (IOW, you are getting too passionate - you need someone who's not prejudiced in any way.)

If you've never heard the pickup before, then I daresay that using your ears to determine the fact that one position is split is not good enough evidence. You need, not just should, but need to tap each pickup coil and see which of them gives a thump in the speaker. For your scenario, both coils should sound out in both switch positions.

If only one coil sounds out in a switch position, disconnect the wiring for the that coil from the switch, and repeat the test. Did the sound go away? The still-connected coil is bad. If the sound remained the same, the disconnected coil is bad.

How 'bout your pup selector switch, were/are you using that in your circuit? Could that be TU, or could you have hooked it up incorrectly?

in re: your tools.....
You really need to snatch up a multimeter if you're gonna do this kind of thing. Cheap ones abound on eBay or craigslist, and you can get them to ship to you on-base, if that's necessary. Otherwise, a buddy can pick one up for you, right?


sumgai

[moloch]

I didn't say I've never heard the pickup, I've owned the pickup for more than a year. I said I've never heard it IN Parallel. I've had it tapped before and I know that this is what it sounds like. The whole pickup isn't there. All that happened to the tonepot is I put the cap on the wrong terminal, no big deal I just didn't think about it when I was wiring it.

Can I use a multimeter to test the pup while its disconnected from the guitar? How would I wire it up to have one or the other coil on a switch?

Right now I went ahead and wired everything up save the dpdt's. Its set up a standard 2hum 1vol 1tone 3way axe. I'm not sure if the neck is being split or not, I don't think it is. But the neck is still fucked up. I've gone over the wiring multiple times, hell I'll even take pictures of each connection, they're all right where they should be (aside from not taping the series links, but thats because the intention is just to take them apart anyways.)

So right now my biggest issue is getting the coils tested on my dimebucker. If its possible to do it with a multimeter I can bring it into the shop and do that easily. Otherwise I'm going to need a more detailed explanation as to how to put one coil on each side of the switch (or whatever you were talking about).

Thanks for the help. If it is the pup I'm just going to throw a set of EMG's in the thing, I've never had them in any of my axes and I think its about damn time I did.

[moloch]

Ok. So I'm 100% certain everyhing is wired up correctly. Black (hot) is on the selector, red & white (series link) are soldered together and isolated, and green & bare are soldered together and grounded. The output is super weak. But if I take the series link and attach it to ground it gets even weaker and if I attach it to hot it also gets weaker. (Thats what I derived from the humbucker mods page as to how to isolate the N & S coils). So I'm not sure what the deal is. Its like its only using a 3rd of the output of my pickup. Its like its in parallel or something but theres absolutley no reason for it to be. I don't know what the hell the deal is but its really pissing me off.

[sumgai]

moloch,

Yes, you caught me out, I should have said, "if you've never heard the pup in (parallel|series) before......" Sorry for the confusion.

You're correct in that a multimeter is the fastest way to tell what's going on inside a pickup. It would appear that you've already found and used the thread/topic on how to tell the two coils apart, so the multimeter will be the finishing touch to settling that issue.

A drop in volume greater than about half is highly indicative of a bad pickup. Particularly if you can't seem to find a wiring combo that allows it to get up to full strength. If it does have at least one lash-up that gives full strength, then you simply don't have the correct color codes. The fact that they worked in the past is a fluke, not a guarantee that they are the correct colors for each coil. That's another reason why a multimeter is so important in this line of work.

And finally, if you've been letting heat travel back down the colored leads, that may have partially disintegrated one of the solder joints on the pickup. At that point, it's up to you to decide whether to fix it or dump it.

I hear EMG's can be pretty cool, if you know what I mean. ;D


sumgai

[moloch]

Haha, yeah. The heat travelling idea doesnt sound too impossible. Still getting used to this butane iron & sometimes it takes WELL over the alotted 3 seconds to get a solder joint done. Especially when I'm grounding to the side of a component, takes forever to get the solder melted on those little bastards. Flux would be a great addition to my little toolbag, oh well. I'm certain that the color codes are correct. What exactly do I need to do to test the coils with a multimeter? This will be the last thing I do (tomorrow) before I go ahead and order a set of EMG's. How hard would it be to fix the solder joints inside the pickup? doesn't seem like a real possibility imho.

Ugh. money money money


Ok, so I just got informed about the screw driver test. Lo & Behold it gives a positive on both rails of the pickup, so once again I'm stumped. I wired one the push/pulls to do a coilsplit and it DOES change the sound. But the output is still almost cut in half in what SHOULD be the standard humbucking position. Its like its stuck in parallel or something, I don't know. I'm 100% certain that my pickup isn't operating correctly. But I can't for the life of me figure out whats wrong with it. Unless somehow the solder melted inside the pickup and meshed the wrong wires together and put in parallel permanently or something, I don't know how they're constructed inside but it seems damn impossible anyways. And I'm pretty sure its not my amp either.

If i take a multimeter to the pickup I should be able to read the rated DC resistance somewhere on the pup right? Which wires would I need to test to get this reading?

[sumgai]

moloch,

Your last question is the easiest/hardest to answer. To know which coil you are reading with a multimeter, you need only use the wire-color chart. If said chart is correct, the two individual coils added together should be pretty close to the rated total value. This is also the best way to make sure that each individual coil is OK. Conversely, you should get the same reading when you physically hook up the wires in what the manufacturer declares to be series mode.

Also, you can spot "partial" failures this way. A coil may be good in that it passes signal from another coil (again, in series), but it contributes nothing on it's own. It may be shorted, which would make the meter read very much lower than the 'working' coil. Not to mention that the sound you get would be "weak, thin, like a split pup" - things you've been describing all along. In such a scenario, the 'tap test' would also give a weak thump, compared to a good coil giving a loud thump.

Get that meter, buddy, and let us know what you find out.


sumgai

[moloch]

Heh...I kind of feel like a dumbass/douchebag. I think the problem was with my amp after all. I'm running a pod XTL and the thing has a switch that lowers the output to compensate for really high output pickups. I don't see the point in the thing, it kills your sound. But I think somehow it got inadvertantly switched on (its right near the input from the guitar).

Oh well, problem solved I suppose.

Thanks for dealing with my dumb butt =P

[sumgai]

moloch,

If you had not admitted it your own self, we would have had to Smite you!

j/k!

Yeah, even I fell for that one - I just assumed you were using the barest essential setup to test your work. I'll bet you don't make that mistake again. ;D



sumgai

[moloch]

Haha, well its a set & forget switch. Realll tiny on the back of the amp. I still don't see how it got switched over. My only thought is that maybe the wiring IS screwed up but the low output wiring combined with the higher than usual output setting are balanced out =/

Doubt it but who knows. whatever, I'm happy with my axe now.