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Post by bigjeelittlo on Jun 3, 2011 16:59:29 GMT -5
Thanks Ash! I searched but did not find that particular thread. Interesting approach that loses me somewhat, so I need to study a bit further. So I have two alternatives to the BPSSC to research at this point.
Thanks much Gents!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Jun 2, 2011 16:05:24 GMT -5
C1 - Agreed on all counts, except where my knowledge and ability falls short, which leaves me not fit to agree.
This particular thread began years ago with what seemed to be yet another method to attack the dreaded 60 cycle hum/buzz. But I don't have the knowledge or ability to apply what Woody inferred as a simple solution. Same goes with "multi-use tools," because I lack knowledge and ability to apply them as hum/buzz reducers.
However, I am qualified to agree that the unitasker BPSSC is only a good option as a last resort. So I have to ask, what are these "multi-use tools," and can a lowly Apprentice Shielder with no Karma acquire the knowledge and ability to apply them for less than $245 (total cost, in dollars, sweat, blood, wifely unhappiness, etc)?
Thanks again for continued advice, G
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Jun 1, 2011 22:47:53 GMT -5
newey - the BPSSC could be modifed to fit if need be without affecting its noise limiting effect. Still have the original backplate, so the guitar can be restored fairly easily. It's no collector's item, but filling and drilling is just something I can't do...yet. Everything I've done (thorough and careful shielding with conductive copper tape, wax potting the pups, rewire with good quality wire and star ground) seems less extreme than taking a drill bit to the body. All of those steps helped, but it's still noisy enough that I feel like I can't quit. I'm not planning on selling it, but its vintage quality is a good portion of the reason it's fun to play. I will do a before and after recording, unless the BPSSC doesn't help, in which case I won't waste the time. So no follow up means the BPSSC was a $25 mistake. But at least I'll lose the wondering. @c1 - yeah, I am grateful for all of the good advice. I know it must seem like I've got plenty of cash, but really it's more of an obsession with a guitar that plays and sounds better (to me) than any single coil guitar I've had the pleasure to know. Maybe if I had more money, I'd already own something far better...
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Jun 1, 2011 19:43:43 GMT -5
Thanks Newey. Good advice, but I do have a conundrum with the noiseless pups, because none of them fit my pickguard. A new pickguard appears to require me to drilll new holes. If the guitar was not a vintage model (1979 Greco SE450), I would have already purchased a pickguard assembly. If this Suhr device works, I have not changed the vintage quality of the pickups or the body. And I really do like the sound of these pups, so I want to use them.
Suhr has a money back guarantee, and the company is no slouch in the industry. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on this and eating the cost to ship it back if it blows up. Basically, a risk of about $25. If I do this, I'll post my results here.
Thanks much, G
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 31, 2011 21:54:07 GMT -5
Rather than start a new thread, this seems to fit here. Anyone have any experience and/or thoughts about the Suhr BPSSC? If you've not heard, the PDF below is the hype launch: www.suhrguitars.com/downloads/pdf/BPSSC_Flyer.pdfI have a project that might turn out to be a guitar if this device is what the PDF (and many testimonials) indicate. Price is steep, but if I can get the sound without the hum/buzz, I'd gladly part with $260, even after all of the time and money on copper foil tape, rewiring to star ground, etc. Is this thing just too good to be true? Thanks in advance for any response.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 18, 2011 18:13:59 GMT -5
Star ground and jacks were soldered by a repair guy because I did not trust my solder work. He did a nice job...really clean and with good copper wire. WIre to the output jack is shielded. I am planning to double check it tonight, but I think it's all good.
Heh...already checked with Lawrence, GF, Stewmac and others. I have a Greco SE450 that has a pickguard with pup holes that are 3mm too small for standard Strat pups. I thought of buying an entire pickguard assembly, but no guarantee that the screwholes will match, and that just seemed like well beyond. Of course, now it doesn't seem so outworldly. I also thought of some fine-grit sanding of the pickguard to effect the 3mm width, but the pickup screws might not align.
I'm starting to think that drilling some new pickguard holes might be the only choice. This is becoming an expensive guitar...wish I could sell it for what it's worth by now.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 18, 2011 17:36:35 GMT -5
First, thanks Gents, for your time and good thinking. It has occurred to me that the guitar has a ground loop, a bad ground and is also noisier than the average Strat/copy. Last night, I almost had myself convinced that I'd just use the guitar for those blues/funk needs, which allows me to avoid the drive that makes the hum so friggin' annoying. Then I remembered...I'm not wealthy enough to have a guitar for that purpose alone. Ground is to the neck end of the tremolo config, with a big dab of solder and the wire running to the copper that coats the cavity. I established contact with one of the meter poles on the solder and the other on the copper that coats the cavity, and I saw less than two ohms resistance. This tells me that all elements are conductive, but it doesn't tell me if ground is solid. I guess I just assumed that the good lutherie people at Fujigen were qualified in this sort of thing. Is there a way to verify the quality of the ground? Wirey - no change in the hum when I put my hands on any part of the guitar. C1 - No spares. In fact, I've never owned a single-coil pickup until now. I've played plenty and heard even more, but never an owner. Thanks again, Gents.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 18, 2011 13:22:28 GMT -5
Thanks Wirey. I'm good with the conductivity, I think, as my meter shows less than 2 ohms on every pair of connective points. Touching of the meter poles shows zero ohms, so I think the meter is good.
So, I started last night with process of elimination...turning off all devices save those completely necessary, going direct to amp, going direct to board, using a guitar with humbuckers to determine if there was noise in the path that was not due to pickups. I even did the "find the point of least noise" dance in several locations around the room.
I'm down to one of two things:
1) I've got a ground loop (see below) 2) It's a '79 Greco SE450, and it was born noisier than any Strat or Strat copy I've ever played or heard.
Since I can't live with #2 unless I rule out #1, I need to ask for more wisdom. My "Rookie Solder Flinger" status is going to show in a big way, but I do want to note that there are no "Hello Kitty" stickers on my guitar, or really anywhere in my life.
My means of defining a ground loop is to state that if I can find a way in any path, point A to ground, for the current to come back to point A before reaching ground, I've got a loop. Is this a bad definition? Seems so, because the copper-plated underbelly of the pickguard, teamed with the copper-coated cavity and strategically placed copper overlap to body top that run to pickguard screwholes is an infinte set of loops.
Is there any way to be definitive in determining if I've got a ground loop?
P.S. - You might be wondering what an electrical nitwit like me is doing with a multimeter. A friend of mine left it at my house 25 years ago, and never reclaimed it. It's really his, but I suspect he has forgotten about it.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 16, 2011 22:52:17 GMT -5
In the unhappy ending, the audience goes home, frustrated and empty, almost lifeless... The hum is not better after a thorough shielding. Next step is to try to isolate the source, though I fear it's the pickups themselves. Words of wisdom are welcome. Giving up is not yet an option.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 1, 2011 10:37:58 GMT -5
Thanks Newey and C1. My concern was that the ground needs good connectivity shield-wide, and the capacity of the adhesive may not cut it. Definitely will not have any shielding in the signal chain. Confidence is much higher now, thanks. The voltage meter will hopefully ice that cake.
Much appreciated, as always!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on May 1, 2011 9:04:01 GMT -5
Woke up this morning thinking about the time I hope to have today to finally finish shielding my Greco Strat copy. I have copper foil tape with conductive adhesive ready to go. Started to think about the possibility that there might be an issue with increased capacitance related to the adhesive that will need to be addressed. Of course, I have already shielded the pickguard with the tape, thus providing the perfect context for this "hmmmm...." moment.
Any opinions on the need to solder the strips of copper foil tape together to ensure good flow? I bought the tape with the conductive adhesive to avoid having to solder, but I always think more clearly after having committed to something in a less than fully considered manner. Obviously, I can test it after install, but wondered about the science involved vs. the actual aural experience, which made me think of guitarnuts...
And in the continued thankful spirit of a Rookie Solder Flinger, I want to say thanks in advance for any response. C1...I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for some more good advice today...
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 27, 2011 22:13:38 GMT -5
Thanks much, O' Cynical 1. If I was paying you for advice, I'd be broke.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 27, 2011 21:53:09 GMT -5
Yep, I want to buy it. Have to travel hundreds of miles, however, so that's the only issue left. Thanks for the info!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 27, 2011 20:50:23 GMT -5
Found a guitar I like that has one issue that may not be an issue...a poorly matched two-piece neck. I got to wondering if two-piece necks are common, and maybe I'd never noticed because the match was always better. Any words of wisdom?
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 17, 2011 22:43:19 GMT -5
...and I'm not even using the marbles any longer. A metal grate is in place under the can. No wax on my marbles.
Anyone know where the parafin is cheap?
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 17, 2011 12:46:16 GMT -5
Thanks much, O' Cynical One.
My plan is to use a clean metal can inside of a fondue pot with built in coil underneath. Marbles in the bottom of the can to keep the pup at a safe distance from heat source. Stone cover for the bench will be non-flammable. Definitely not rushing on removal from wax. Cleanup on the pups is my biggest concern, because it's something that is universally mentioned as an issue.
I admit to concern about loss of robustness in clean, lower-gain sound, but that's why I have more than one guitar.
Thanks again!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 17, 2011 11:26:52 GMT -5
OK...maybe the acquired taste doesn't include the ever more irritating micrphonic pickups. I figured I could live with them, but the squeal was especially irritating yesterdy. Did some Googling and found Lindy Fralin's info on Stewmac ( www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Pickup_building/a-lindyfralin.html) that addresses the tape on the coils with a rubber band. Seems very plausible to me. I wondered if anyone here had ever potted pickups with tape on the coils, and if the rubber band was used, did it work? Moreover, did the tape allow the wax into the coils? Thanks in advance for any response.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 14, 2011 19:54:19 GMT -5
The lesson: pickup noise, and even the microphonic squeal, don't seem as bad when one tries to construct multiple remedies that present less than optimal outcomes as possibilities, most notably a long wait to get custom parts. I now understand that vintage hum is an acquired taste. And then comes the justification of saved money and time. The guitar is better than ever after surgery to...do nothing!
Thanks to all who chimed in on my dilemmas.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 13, 2011 13:13:44 GMT -5
as far as capatability just put the gut into your existing pickguard and the other can be saved or sold. But at that point, I'm doing some assembly. Why buy a pickguard and other parts that I don't need? So many pickups, so little time...
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 13, 2011 7:45:46 GMT -5
Thought about the pickguard assembly approach, but wondered about the match with an MIJ Greco from 1979. The lawsuit label did not yet fully apply, and evej if it did, no telling if exact specs were used. Don't want to be fillin' and drillin' the body if I can avoid that, because any vintage quality that might be retained is gone at that point. I've been asking the different purveyors if they can provide me specs on pickup dimensions and wire length, just to be sure I get a good fit there. Due diligence sucks when you just want to play the damn thing...
To repeat, this is a great board. No way my outcomes on this little project are as good without all of the help here. Greatly appreciated, Gents!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 12, 2011 22:06:49 GMT -5
This is a great board. Thanks much, Gents! Much thinking to do, though a decision must come quickly. My guitar lies bleeding on the bench. Thanks so much for the assist(s).
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 12, 2011 10:29:13 GMT -5
First, thanks much. Cynical advice, and advice from Sumgai. Very sound and thoughtful.
I really like the alternate pickups idea as preserving the Greco is important. Looking at Guitar Fetish, I'm concerned that some of these pickups are so cheap that I would be fearful of the purchase. Any suggestions to replicate a '69 Strat sound? The Greco pickups are great sounding, just noisy.
Thanks again, Go
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 11, 2011 21:43:33 GMT -5
Pictures are blurry...lame excuse is that the wife got a new camera and I don't (ever) have time for this particular kind of change. No worries about the coils as the plastic that is loose is not actually the pup base. And since the spleen is sitting out for all to see, I might as well ask another question - I'm assuming that the blue tape is not covering some sort of sealant that will prevent the potting from being successful. I'm not going to remove the tape. Is my assumption that potting is worthwhile a good one?
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 11, 2011 21:00:45 GMT -5
Another day, another issue with a Greco SE450 Strat copy to which I am giving rebirth. When removing the middle pickup, I discovered the black plastic base was loose. I need to re-attach as I am planning on potting all three pickups due to the colicky whine of the microphonic. I want to be able to string some wire through both of the holes in the base so as to be able to jiggle the air bubbles loose, and more importantly, to retrieve my pickups from the 150 degree wax.
I had Duro Super Glue in hand, and then stopped to think. It recommends staying away from polypropelene plastic, and since I am not a plastic officianado, I thought some more. Anyone have a recommendation as to what glue to use to re-attach a plastic base to a pickup in a 1979 Greco SE450? It's not just the bond I'm thinking about, but also the fact that once I know it's dry, I'll be bathing it in parafin, beeswax and lanolin. It would be a considerable disappointment to have to retrieve the pickup with a spoon or something similar.
Thanks in advance for any response.
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 10, 2011 21:57:36 GMT -5
I use the conductive adhesive tape on everything because I scored 23 rolls of the 3M good stuff on eBay for 15.00 a few years back...I even shielded the cat... Hate it when the cat has too much hum... ;D Thanks much for the good advice!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 10, 2011 21:28:40 GMT -5
Apologies for using the wrong forum category. Makes better sense to put it here, though I admit I was hesitant to initiate something in a category that began with "lutherie," as I am at best a hack.
Thanks much for the responses. I agree that a small opening should not make much difference, but I was concerned about the proximity of the neck pup to what will be the opening in the shield. Good idea to try without, because it would be easy to add some copper if need be.
As for copper tape vs. foil, point well taken. I'm not much of a solder expert, so the less, the better. But don't I need the foil for the pick guard? Or can I use tape there as well?
Will post pics tomorrow night after I get a chance to take some. And the Greco is a match with the picture in this thread, other than the white pickguard and knobs on mine. Love how it plays and sounds, even though it's one of the cheaper models.
Very grateful for responses...and this forum. Cheers!
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Post by bigjeelittlo on Apr 10, 2011 16:15:42 GMT -5
I just got a lower end Greco SE450 that plays and sounds great, but hums too much for my taste, and I'm going to work with some 40 gauge copper foil and contact cement. It's a replica of a '69 Strat that was MIJ in 1979 (yes, I know I'll decrease value by shielding it).
The issue here is that the truss rod adjustment is accessed at the base of the neck, in the pit between the bridge pickup and the neck. A proper shielding job will make it difficult to adjust neck relief. I have surmised that I could create a movable piece of copper foil that would allow movement and replacement with a fair amount of ease, but thought I would ask if anyone here has dealt with this particular issue.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
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