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Post by strat80hm on May 22, 2022 21:19:41 GMT -5
Did you take the stereo pedal out of the system? I feel like the active split in that was important to this working at all. Edit to underline: There is NO actually acceptable full passive solution here. You really want a buffer before the split for guitar tone purposes. You really want a buffer on each side of the split. You’d like to have a buffer after V pedal so it’s outZ matches the dry side. You need mixing resistors to isolate the sources from each other and keep the buffers from fighting to the death (they won’t actually hurt each other). You want an active mixing stage after that. The mixing resistors will drop voltage, so you’ll want makeup gain somewhere along the line. In my mind, proper gain staging says get that as early as possible which is probably at the buffer before the split, assuming that doesn’t distort the looper. Thank you for your time and knowledgeable input Ashcatlt! It is working again now! Wish i had fixed this before my gig last night (each time i used the Volume Pedal, i lost both the looper AND the guitar!... but well, the singer and percussion player made up for it haha) Today no gig so I finally have been able to do some testings: 1 - bypassing the "input buffer" (Line 6 Echo) - passively splitting the signal (Y cable) It s working! 2 - bypassing the "output buffer" (Tuner) - passively going straight from Volume Pedal=> Amp It s working too, no sound difference apparently, no audible phase issue.. 3 - bypassing both "input + output buffer" (all passive using 2 Y cables) It s working too! no sound difference, no audible phase issue.. Conclusion: to my surprise, it looks like a passive "parallel-signals volume-controlled-FX-Loop" is possible! HOWEVER i like your explanation of the process you describe and would like to implement an ACTIVE solution. - that d mean having a FX Loop installed inside the Volume Pedal enclosure - IN and OUT through the Looper QUESTION: are there any specific compact-DIY-cost-effective buffer-circuits that you d recommend in that regards? Here i found: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3150On YT: (if it has not be made obvious enough, i do not know much at all in electronic..) Thanks in advance for your help!
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Post by strat80hm on May 21, 2022 0:27:33 GMT -5
Why could be the the reason that this "reverse the in/out" trick doesnt work any more? I finally took the time to make a proper Y cable (1 jack mono => 2 jacks mono) and put it my circuit, using the reverse trick But now, the volume pedal again affect both signals equally (direct guitar AND looper) In my Y cable, all the three Hot and three Ground are connected. Any idea what mistake i could have made? Thank you in advance if you have a clue! The fastest way to "fix" this issue is to simply pull a Gibson, and reverse the wiring on pot - the wiper receives the incoming signal from the looper, and the output comes off of the 'hot' terminal of that pot. In this way, the load on the 'direct' signal remains fixed, and thus the volume level of that direct signal should also remain constant. In addition to that, it's a pretty safe bet that the wiring of a passive volume pedal is nothing more than in the below image — so, no need to grab a soldering iron, just reverse the input & output cables. That is, have the looper's output going into the volume pedal's output and take the actual output (that's being mixed with the direct signal) from the volume pedal's input.
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 19:02:13 GMT -5
The fastest way to "fix" this issue is to simply pull a Gibson, and reverse the wiring on pot - the wiper receives the incoming signal from the looper, and the output comes off of the 'hot' terminal of that pot. In this way, the load on the 'direct' signal remains fixed, and thus the volume level of that direct signal should also remain constant. In addition to that, it's a pretty safe bet that the wiring of a passive volume pedal is nothing more than in the below image — so, no need to grab a soldering iron, just reverse the input & output cables. That is, have the looper's output going into the volume pedal's output and take the actual output (that's being mixed with the direct signal) from the volume pedal's input. Basic yet effective observation - Thanks YogiB!
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 19:00:54 GMT -5
All passive? The it's rather obvious, and exactly why Yogi said "buffer" and trag said "mix control". The point being, even if the two signal paths are completely separate and remain parallel, the fact that both of them are combined without any kind of separation at the point where the Insert meets the Output, that says that the wiper on the Volume pedal will take all of the signal to ground - no matter if it came to that point by way of the 'direct' path, or through the looper pedal, it's still going to go from that wiper to the ground connection on the Vol pot. The fastest way to "fix" this issue is to simply pull a Gibson, and reverse the wiring on pot - the wiper receives the incoming signal from the looper, and the output comes off of the 'hot' terminal of that pot. In this way, the load on the 'direct' signal remains fixed, and thus the volume level of that direct signal should also remain constant. There may be undesired tonal effects of such a circuit, but it gets you in the ball park of what you're asking for. If it sounds wrong, then the above suggestions are the only way you can go. And while you're describing it all as passive, you do already have power going to the looper, right? Well, building the vol pedal into the same box as the looper wouid mean that power is available, right there in the same enclosure, so a simple powered buffer would not be a problem. (The implied problem with a passive Mix control being the loss of overall volume. Which then begs for two buffers, or at least a summing amplifier stage. Which brings us right back to powered something....) HTH sumgai Thanks Sumgai - the final version of this future "modded Volume Pedal" into "Parallel FX loop blender" will very likely be an active circuit. That way i could get rid of the Echo Park and Boss Tuner... I have yet to come up with the circuit, but will work on it and make sure i ll submit it to y all!
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 18:53:49 GMT -5
haven't had the space (currently staying with family until we find a house so even the low volume recording i was doing yesterday brought protests) so i haven't gotten the chance to practice with full stereo rig in several months so I've been playing mono (and not able to use the aby switch that bypasses half my board when i need either cleaner tones out for laying down basslines). board definitely needs to be dialed in depending on the amp I'm using otherwise levels get wonky Uneasy i hear you - for moments like that, i use a Yamaha silent guitar and headset. Have you tried?
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 18:49:59 GMT -5
You guys are geniuses! It works just by reversing the cables!!!
To sum it up: - to split the signal, I use the Right+Left outputs of a Line 6 Echo Park (mono to stereo). It is turned off, though there s more likely some permanent buffer in there.
- to re-unite the signal, I made a basic passive home-made Y cable (2 jacks mono => 1 jack mono)
- Side R goes through Looper => Volume Pedal Output => Volume Pedal Input => Y cable R
- Side L goes straight from Line 6 EchoPark L output => Y cable L
- the Y cable goes through Boss Tuner TU2 (that i used as a mute to protect speakers while trying different routings). Probably another permanent buffer in there too.
It works flawlessly: - heel down = guitar only - heel up = guitar + looper signal - and i can adjust volume of the loop as needed while the direct guitar s volume remains constant all the way
I cant believe it was that simple! Now i need to integrate that Y cable inside the Volume Pedal and i am all set
Thank you again GuitarNutz!!
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 11:03:03 GMT -5
Hey Tragichero - i guess we re on similar boat indeed - how alive are your live performances?
Definitely using dynamic when recording loops, but would love a master-volume!
I m gonna try to build a parallel FX loop circuit and see how that could work I m experimentating with a basic serie FX loop too, that could help
I am using Foot Control Expression Knob on the LoopPedal volume knob (wingmanfx.com)- but not very easy for quick mute on the fly
And yes, you can move the thread to wherever it fits, thanks!
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 3:42:05 GMT -5
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Post by strat80hm on May 8, 2022 3:15:16 GMT -5
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Post by strat80hm on May 7, 2022 23:58:32 GMT -5
Thanks for input Yogi B! Yes, that is correct: i am trying to mix two signals in parallel - is this even easily doable?
Actually the "box" above is a sketch to explain my out-of-box routing (ultimately i d love to build that "volume-controlled FX-loop" inside that passive Volume pedal
- I am trying to find a working circuit using cables and jacks - it is all passive, i m just trying to split and then "reunite" both signals (the direct-from-guitar and the loop-pedal s output) - although obviously it is not working!
From what you re saying (2 Y-splitters), my tentative idea might be just naive, right?
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Post by strat80hm on May 7, 2022 18:21:02 GMT -5
I cannot seem to understand why my simple idea does not work, can anyone help? - I need to pass the signal out of the JamMan Looper pedal via a passive Volume pedal so that i can turn the Looper s output up and down. - ALL THE WHILE retaining the direct signal from my guitar always ON. - This setup will be useful to add dynamic to loop-based live performances - and in the heat of the performance, greatly facilitate clean endings (turning the Looper down with the Volume pedal instead of double-clicking on the Looper s footswitch) => what i get is not what i expected! - both direct Guitar s signal AND Looper s signal are affected by the passive Volume pedal! - So I lose my guitar signal whenever i turn down the looper s signal! What did i do wrong??
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Post by strat80hm on Sept 26, 2019 2:40:39 GMT -5
Naturally, when one s not checking on acquaintance for too long, bigger are the odds that some major change happened in the meanwhile. Saddened and stunned to read the new about 4Real - definitely very young to go, especially with kids around, damn.. And it s been 5 years already, wow Very smart and gifted one for sure We had PM discussions at some point when i had dreams of "improving" some commercial sustainer circuit (i could never match the incredible things he created). Like his gorgeous blue Tele (that i was so jealous about) Or this one for Tom Morello www.guilfordguitars.com/the_goblinI knew it was sensitive matter, yet he was always very supportive and helpful. RIP mate
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Post by strat80hm on Sept 23, 2019 1:50:23 GMT -5
It took a while for the swelling in the left eye to go down enough after sumgai dropped by to check if I was still among the living...but I'm now able see well enough to logon and advise I''m still hanging on to the mortal coil. It's been a long year or so, but things are starting to turn around. I'll be back to check up on the volumes of things I've missed in my absence, but now I need to get some ice for the right eye... Happy Trails Cynical One Good to hear from you Cyn, hope you re getting back on track my friend
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Post by strat80hm on Apr 21, 2018 14:53:10 GMT -5
Thanks Sumgai
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Post by strat80hm on Apr 12, 2018 9:50:56 GMT -5
That be nice to hear about Cyn yup - who has his contact?
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 27, 2017 14:47:35 GMT -5
Beautiful job and cool colors too - thanks for sharing those
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 21, 2017 0:33:11 GMT -5
A trebly "quality" - i remember my bandmates at rehearsal suggesting switching the speaker (probably a 8 or 10") of my (dad s) amp - EmThree studio 15 made in italy (volume, tone, tremolo) - to get more "bass" (i never did it happily) Later, i got a used 50w Marshall solid-state from a friend - same. I remember a friend of mine had a fuller sound with an Aria Pro II with a Dimarzio SuperDisto through a 15W Peayey My next one was the first Peavy Classic 50 - and by that time i finally got my first electric guitar (used ESP kit with floyd and S.Duncan that i got for cheap) - and the sound characteristic was improved, yet still the same. Today, i know how to EQ my guitars to get a very nice sound so it s never been any issue professionally, but the original sound is the same then when i was 11 i d say Another friend of mine had the opposite issue - his sound always lacked of brightness, even on a strat or a steel-string - and that situation stayed even when we d swap instruments, it was really in our touch/fingers/bones!
I hear you - i dont think that Cheeto..huh..45 has any grip on that though who knows? - the same way Planned Parenthood saw a big increase in its donations, one can always imagine some sort of backlash that d benefit home-made craft & quality over factory lutherie.
Inspiring indeed
Even with a sponge underneath the strings?
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 20, 2017 1:57:48 GMT -5
Definitely is! I decided to learn keaybords. I play the guitar since I don't remember when, time to move on. That is cool, you ll have a lot of fun! I noticed you ve been looking for sustain for a while - keys are the key for eternal sustain (they even have a pedal ( (included) for that sole purpose, aint it heaven?)
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 20, 2017 1:43:21 GMT -5
Is it ironic that most tone Nazi's will proselytize their specific wood Gods...but they're the first ones looking at the new pickups, effects, amps and signal processing units at the trade shows... But hey, that's what makes all this nonsense so much fun... Totally with you on this - and i realized the non-sense very early on (flashback: i officially started by 8-9 on my dad s electric, a rattling mid-70s Les Paul (inspired, at least visually) Made in Japan Maya with a bolt on neck, single coil pickup (did i discover as it naturally became my first victim), hollow-top (to create the curve..): the sound i had at rehearsal (started first bands at 11-12) already had the same unfortunate characteristics that i have been trying to change/improve my whole life - end of flashback) For the better AND the worst, i still get that "sound" regardless of the guitar i play -granted it "improved" a little, but really not much at all, i just got used to it and i guess it s "my" sound. Same on the classical guitar - the same sound comes out of when i play nylon strings (and yet i have model/wood/design from Yamaha, Cordoba, Ibanez, Alhambra, LaPatrie, etc.. and at least 3 different systems on them (Fishman, LRBaggs, Yamaha, even the new A.R.T..) - i EQ them the exact same ways and get the exact same sounds. It would be like hoping for a drastic change in my (backup) voice by switching a SM58 to a Neumann U87 - it actually happens all the time - but no luck, same voice haha Speaking of the "Regime" - i m sure more than one guitar lovers is hearing the "Made in America" revival thing with some sense of excitement.. Doesnt slapping the roundwound on the fretless create the rockabilly thang by the way?
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 16, 2017 17:09:34 GMT -5
Yup i was absolutely referring to "hearing" the guitar "in context" (live or on a recording). Now when it comes to handling the instrument, my defective ears can absolutely notice differences - lately i was comparing the unplugged sound made by a hollow-body from the early 70s to its 21st century counterpart from the same maker: there was no question about it: MAJOR contrast unfavorably to the newer model unfortunately - not easy to replicate the sweet rich sound that comes out of these old planks of wood - so yes i agree, wood make real tonal differences. But the rest of the time, it s mostly - if not all - subjective changes, or as you nicely put it "subtle "color" variations". It has always been quite intriguing to witness players changing guitars multiple time on stage (or on recordings) and yet not hearing a single difference in the speakers haha - besides the open-tuning options naturally. I m with you, the final sound is about the performance the player put into the instrument - said performance partially linked to how the instrument makes her feel - said feelings linked to the actual sensual experience of said instrument - and i guess there we have it, a feedback loop, a moto perpetuo. Ok then, there IS a difference... although outta reach for my listener s ears, which is probably why a lot of instrument tweaking sometimes seems like it s a lot of ado for what feels like merely "visual tweaking" i guess my rant ends here: I guess it all started out of disappointment in front of that impressive looking custom Crimson copper top guitar which sounded exactly like.. a guitar!
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 15, 2017 15:52:23 GMT -5
Cool sounds indeed! I m no John Lord but it sounds to me like part of the magic you pointed out is also from the Leslie Cab effect - besides dialing the right mix of harmonic/pipes/wind - cannot be that hard can it?
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 15, 2017 13:07:20 GMT -5
Well, IMHO, it all comes down to how well does the instrument preserve and present the string energy. All in all, I'm certain it sounds a helluva lot better than the video represents. It's clever and functional. Good points - makes me realize that after all the years i might just be sort of deaf. Not literally yet, my hearing test is still surprisingly perfect actually - although i might soon, as i played rock guitar & bass on tour for decades after all, and still do play with drummer & bassist on daily basis) But i mean - when listening (with my ears, the old-school way) to the music made (which i naively consider the bottom line of all of our tweaking our toys), i had never been able to tell wether it was maple, mahogany, basswood, wenge, aluminum (not even copper), you name it..that was the under the hood (or the fingerboard) - neither had i ever been able to hear wether the toy was manufactured in far east asia, eastern europe, northern america, south of the US border..) - nor wether the nut and saddle were made of bone, tusq, copper or mere plastic - nor wether the pickups were direct mounted or using some 3D printed custom-made rings - my ears never let me guess wether the finish was poly or nitro or raw - heck i could not even tell from ear wether the instrument had a pickguard nor wether it was a 1, 2 or 3 ply one. My point? Just call me deaf. I too still have my eyes though haha
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Post by strat80hm on Mar 15, 2017 12:34:41 GMT -5
Indeed very rich source of information - i ve learned a lot from this channel over the past few years - very creative and DIY (despite the impressive array of tools and such!) (still in awe in front of what the internet brought to our 21st century lives (including hacking) - yet glad to have also known that era just before it - good balance hopefully )
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Post by strat80hm on Nov 11, 2016 14:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 9, 2016 17:29:56 GMT -5
Haha, ok GreekD, let s crash your party here!
Good lead Cyn- i always loved what Steve Stevens manage to do with his mix of traditional+midi guitar approach - there s that rig rundown where he shows is very in depth, so instructive. Q: why do you advice buying over modifying here?
Wont it be simple to fit a couple of piezo/midi saddle in a flamenco guitar?
Note: That be for studio use only, i m not bringing any midi on stage anytime soon (hmm..never say never..) I m not a big fan of those thin Godin nylon I wish i could enter midi datas with a full-bodied guitar I hear you about the fact that the Godin comes with pre-installed 13-pin output for 700-900 used, but wont i be able to get similar result for less? (I m DIY cheap butt mofo, dont forget) The most pricey part of the setup is still going to be the box converting 13-pin datas into midi anyway, right?
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 9, 2016 17:15:36 GMT -5
Apparently i just damaged the pot - all the rest is intact
I re-did the circuit - all is working fine! Used 2 inches of aluminum 90 degree-angled profile as a heat sink and the whole thing fits nicely inside the loop-switcher
=> I finally have a full system with one charger!
Thank you so much everyone for support, knowledge and expertise, much much appreciated!
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 8, 2016 16:26:29 GMT -5
Indeed, pretty old page haha.. i had seen the ebay offers yup, tempting, now that i ve discovered that string-splitting function - "...the ability to translate picking position (string distance from the bridge) into controller information to modify sounds or effect splits and crossfades.."
I m considering equipping an acoustic guitar with midi capacities.. but will open up a new post for that - this one s about GreekD 7 string beast!
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 7, 2016 22:05:04 GMT -5
Is this possible that i fried more than the pot while doing that little experimentation above?
Ever since, the TO220 becomes crazy hot when fed with the 9V - and doesnt turn on the PX4 anymore (which still works with charger though) - Ok, gonna redo the entire thing with new components and see..
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 7, 2016 19:19:41 GMT -5
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Post by strat80hm on Oct 7, 2016 16:13:28 GMT -5
Ok. Indeed i only have guitar pots 250/500K
I tried with a 500K pot anyway - i could measure that at about 0.700K resistance, the PX4 would turn off: does this answer any question?
Then some smoke started to come from the pot so stopped it all - pot is probably fried (Resistance now ranges from 500K to 170K, doesnt go any lower anymore)
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