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Post by frets on Aug 31, 2022 20:10:29 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
Me again,
I’ve gotta a guy who wants me to do a mod in an old Teisco type guitar with a 21mm depth in the cavity. As you know, they are pretty thin on the bottom of the cavity and there is not a lot of wood to whittle away to put a push pull in.
I was wondering if an S1 would fit but I never use them. It would have to a bit less than 21mm tall from base of shaft to the bottom of the pot.
I have tried looking for tech specs with no results.
He doesn’t want a bow on his pickguard so a push pull is out. Unless one of you can think of a way.
Thanks😸😸😸
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Post by Yogi B on Aug 31, 2022 20:53:27 GMT -5
Measured mine in situ on a pickguard, it's 26mm.
One of MEC's push-pulls should fit, but they can be quite pricey & availability local to the US may be lacking. Here's the 'official' listing on Warwick's store front. And below is a dimension drawing from Banzai Music: |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 1, 2022 10:51:43 GMT -5
My first question is why is he modding a Teisco? I have a Tulip body for a project, but it's slated to have a walnut bottom and a maple top. The only "Teisco" in there is the mahogany filling...but I digress...
It seems the physical dimensions for an S1 switch are a well guarded secret. If anyone out there has one I'd be curious now.
About the only thing I could find to fit the original Tulip cavity was a rotary switch. But if your customer wants the control switch to be integral with the vol\tone knob...with no shimming of the pickguard to accommodate the shallow cavity...I believe they're screwed... ...unless they want to cough up the £73.90BPS or $85.00USD (one part and shipping to the US) for the MEC switch Yogi pointed out. They do ship to the US. I would submit, though, at the point you bill for your labor and include the MEC pot...you've exceeded the value of the instrument...and they're still screwed... What is their objection to a toggle? HTC1 |
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Post by newey on Sept 1, 2022 11:07:16 GMT -5
More basically, what's the mod he wants? May be more than one way to skin the proverbial feline . . .
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Post by frets on Sept 1, 2022 12:18:19 GMT -5
He states that on the original (its a Norma EG200) that is had a 3 position varitone. Which they did. Someone before him changed the Varitone to a tone pot and he wants it back the way it is; but, he wants a push pull Volume/Tone mod to the Varitone (and he wants a 6 position). The original just had the rotary tied right to the Volume (pretty sure). So it’s the standard push pull volume to tone mod with a Varitone connected to the tone part. I can draw it up if you want to see it, but I think you get the gist.
He has a 21mm depth in the Norma cavity.
My guess is I’ll end up making him a volume tied to a 6-Way but maybe he’ll want to do the MEC.
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 1, 2022 15:06:11 GMT -5
From the pictures I found online for this model, it sure seems to have had a rotary switch in there. All the documentation for this model has yet to filter to the Internet it seems.
For myself, I can't justify $26.50 for a switch and another $59.00 in shipping with that guitar...even without a markup... Granted, they seem to hold on to an unrealistic resale value these days, but $400-$500 is the ceiling on this guitar. 20% to 25% of that value is only $100.00-$125.00...which was always the sanity check, or magic number on upgrades at the shop for custom stuff on cheap guitars. We got it all in advance...
I would submit to your customer that for $125.00 they can achieve quite a bit with just another rotary switch. It doesn't have to be just a varitone. It can incorporate phase, series, parallel...you get the idea...
Some times the best way to service a customer is to protect them from themselves...as the law tends to frown on more satisfying methods...
HTC1
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Post by frets on Sept 1, 2022 16:32:32 GMT -5
Cynical,
Thanks😺😺😺,
I just did that; but, I couldn’t get away with $125 given he’s going to put it in by himself. If I owned the guitar, I would want it just as it was in 1968. It’s a very cool model, I like its array of features. The lower rotary allows for selection of different pickup combinations from the four single coils. Great Surfabilly guitar. We’ll see what he says. But you’re right, investing that much money for the push pull would not reap any value increase; in fact, it would most likely hurt it.
That is one thing lacking on the internet are all the wiring diagrams for all these various Teisco guitars and their sister named companies. It would be cool to find someone with the knowledge on the guitars and diagram as many models as one could find. I’d actually like to do that. But my guess is that knowledge is lost.
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 1, 2022 17:58:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure anyone wrote it down... These guitars sold at places like K-Mart for between $25.00 to $60.00. These Japanese companies built for any retailer with a checkbook...options were dictated by the anticipated selling price.
Adjusted for inflation they'd cost around $200.00 to $450.00 new in 2022 dollars. It is a better world to buy cheap guitars these days.
HTC1
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Post by frets on Sept 1, 2022 20:17:03 GMT -5
Well, the customer has decided to go forward with the MEC push pull. So thanks to Yogi for finding that. It should prove interesting. Looks like a straight forward crosswalk to a common push pull. I’ll take a photo of it when it’s done. I had found one in the US for $25 + $15 shipping; however, he wants the knurled version. I can’t find a knurled version in the US.
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Post by newey on Sept 1, 2022 21:25:57 GMT -5
My first guitar was a Norma, single gold-foil style pickup, V and T controls, 3/4 neck. Circa 1969, I have no idea the model no. So, yer tuggin' my heartstrings . . .  I bought mine brand new in 1969 for $21.99. I had to go pick it up at a loading dock in Libertyville, IL, shipped from Japan to a Co. called "Strum and Drum" (Dad drove me). It was a POS guitar, never would stay in tune, but it sufficed for me as I learned, and got a better guitar 2 years later . . Sold the Norma for $15, so 2 years of playing cost me about $6. But of course now wish I'd kept it. AFAIK, Norma and Teisco were not the same manufacturer, but I'm no expert. Steve, or others on the forum, at Vintaxe www.vintaxe.com/phpBB3/ - can maybe give you more info on the guitar.
EDIT: I raised the $21.99 to buy the Norma by selling my Matchbox and Hot Wheels cars at mom's garage sale. I had a lot, and some rare ones, but had moved on at that time in my life. After all, I was in 7th grade- Junior High! |
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Post by frets on Sept 2, 2022 11:46:46 GMT -5
Newey, I wonder which would be worth more, the guitar or the matchbox/hot wheels cars? Thanks for the link. I will use that in the future. Thanks also for clarifying that Norma and Teisco were not the same company.  |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 2, 2022 13:06:50 GMT -5
I wonder which would be worth more, the guitar or the matchbox/hot wheels cars? The Matchbox cars...or the boxes they came in...
HTC1
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Post by stevewf on Sept 4, 2022 10:14:11 GMT -5
By the way, I found the height of the S-1 switch to be 1-3/64 inches tall (approx 26.5mm), measured from the top of the brass bushing's hexagonal base... 
... to the 4P2T switch's soldering lugs on the bottom  A couple more photos here (flickr.com). Caveats: - Of course, due to the location of the soldering lugs, the guitar's cavity depth will have to accommodate any wires soldered there; - The switch comes with a star washer that's meant to be placed between the brass bushing's base and the pickguard, which would increase the effective "tallness" of the switch. In the interest of learning the minimum requirement of cavity depth, I excluded th star washer from my measurements. |
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Post by frets on Sept 4, 2022 10:56:18 GMT -5
Thanks Steve,
It is kinda interesting that they made it that tall. Especially given the fact you solder to the top of it. Functionally, it must have to be that tall. It’s really kind of a clunky design🙀
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 4, 2022 11:15:05 GMT -5
Thank you, stevewf. I wasted way too much time Googling that to no avail.
HTC1
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Post by stevewf on Sept 4, 2022 20:50:53 GMT -5
Speaking of waste, perhaps I wasted money on purchasing it, as it's sat in my parts box for over a year now. Maybe I should install it for its own sake.
-"What's this Push/Push Volume switch do, Steve?"
-"It justifies its purchase!"
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