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Post by unreg on Dec 3, 2022 18:35:21 GMT -5
Note: Dropped my guitar off at a good luthier/guitar shop that does repairs; he said he couldn’t remove the bushings right then, due to other commitments, and he’ll call me sometime next week right away when they are removed. A super nice knowledgeable guy. So, my guitar is going to be further along down this interesting journey soon!
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 3, 2022 22:32:34 GMT -5
Note: Dropped my guitar off at a good luthier/guitar shop that does repairs; he said he couldn’t remove the bushings right then, due to other commitments, and he’ll call me sometime next week right away when they are removed. A super nice knowledgeable guy. Sometimes it's just wise to step back and take a realistic appraisal of what path is best in completing a project. Not so much the bushings in question here, but in what do you want to accomplish...and what needs to happen to get there. This is everything from the parts, to the tools...and finally the knowledge not to create firewood with the first two things... Everyone who practices this sort of insanity long enough hits a wall...occupational hazard... It usually happens when you underestimate the work involved...and\or consequences of shortcuts\shitcuts along the way. There is no shame in seeking professional help when you hit the aforementioned wall. If this professional is willing to share their knowledge along the way, it's a win-win. I think you have a much more realistic picture of what bridge swap project will take to complete. I commend you on knowing when to close the toolbox and find the car keys. And that's the point. It's the first time you play the guitar with the OFR installed...and it works...and it improves anything about the feel or fun of playing...then the trip was worth it. HTC1
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 3, 2022 22:35:32 GMT -5
and then you have dummies like me who don't know when to say when and end up with all sorts of aggravating projects...
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Post by unreg on Dec 4, 2022 12:16:48 GMT -5
Thank you!
I have a simple question…
On my sales receipt it says: “Remove anchors”
Is anchors the same as bushings? I’m sorry, I don’t know the lingo.
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 4, 2022 13:08:47 GMT -5
Thank you! I have a simple question… On my sales receipt it says: “Remove anchors” Is anchors the same as bushings? I’m sorry, I don’t know the lingo.
I believe so, same as wood inserts. Anchor is like in shipping / vessels , the steady part. Good luck btw!! I wish the guy you found is a good one!
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Post by unreg on Dec 4, 2022 20:03:23 GMT -5
I believe so, same as wood inserts. Anchor is like in shipping / vessels , the steady part. Good luck btw!! I wish the guy you found is a good one!
…but the current bushings are made of Zinc, I think; and the new bushings are made of hardened steel. They aren’t wood inserts. I appreciate your response pyrroz! …though, I’m just still confused. Edit: Oooh… now I believe I understand you better; you weren’t saying the bushings are wooden inserts; rather, the ‘anchor’ word usually refers to steady wooden inserts parts of shipping vessels. …Or something like that. 👍
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 5, 2022 0:22:09 GMT -5
I believe so, same as wood inserts. Anchor is like in shipping / vessels , the steady part. Good luck btw!! I wish the guy you found is a good one!
…but the current bushings are made of Zinc, I think; and the new bushings are made of hardened steel. They aren’t wood inserts. I appreciate your response pyrroz! …though, I’m just still confused. Edit: Oooh… now I believe I understand you better; you weren’t saying the bushings are wooden inserts; rather, the ‘anchor’ word usually refers to steady wooden inserts parts of shipping vessels. …Or something like that. 👍
not screwed inserts, but I have seen common bushings/anchors referred to as inserts such as in :
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Post by sumgai on Dec 5, 2022 13:39:46 GMT -5
Mechanically speaking, the definition of a bushing is: An article that isolates or insulates a moving item from a stationary item. Nice and clean, but like so many other "rules", there are lots of exceptions. Still, it holds water in this case.
A bushing for the posts of a bridge, or a combo bridge-and-tailpiece, does nothing more than protect the wood from metal. In many cases, once the guitar is set up, the posts going into that hole (with its bushing) will not ever move again. But at setup time? The posts were/are adjustable, and metal threads digging into wood means that the hole won't be stable for very long. Ditto for the wood at the bottom of a hole, if the bridge can rock back and forth - that pivot point will wear down real quick if there's no protection for the wood.
That's all a bushing does, protect the wood. But the rub here is, a bushing is inserted into a hole in the wood, thus it was given the name of what it does, it's now an "insert". (But I personally would not call them anchors, because they can't hold the bridge in place if the hole was drilled oversize, or is just plain worn away.)
I've never seen a factory bushing glued in, they're always pressed into a very slightly under-sized hole. (Glue as a material, drying time, the necessary man-hours, all add up to additional costs of manufacturing that aren't needed. A press will do the job just fine, in much less time, with no hassle or clean-up needed.) In a few cases, I've seen them screwed in, but as pointed out above, anytime you introduce threads into wood that will be under stress, you're weakening the structural integrity. It may be years down the road, but doing so will eventually show up to bite you on the butt.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by unreg on Dec 16, 2022 1:35:26 GMT -5
Good news! Got a call today that my guitar is ready to be picked up! I’ll have to wait till Saturday, but I’m excited to get it back. And to continue down this Floyd Rose installation journey. Last week, after calling, the luthier said he hadn’t been able to set up his drill press/machine appropriately; so that’s the reason for the delay. (I added /machine bc I don’t actually remember the specific machine he mentioned, and so drill press was a weak guess.)
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 16, 2022 6:13:23 GMT -5
Cool. Yeah, I remember how it works...it says "drill press" on the front...but it's also a fret press, milling machine, drum sander....yeah, I can understand the delay...
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Dec 17, 2022 16:43:21 GMT -5
He said it was a bit rough during the bushing removal. After asking: he smiled and said, "Yes, they were glued in." He had to heat them, and then put my guitar in a vice for the removal. It turned out really good! And he thanked me for giving him the extra time!
Now, I can remove that screw more easily. I haven't tried yet, but I believe the holes are just smaller than the new bushings... if that's true, then pressing them in with my Uncle's drill press shouldn't be terrible.
He smiled and confirmed he'd be happy to do the insertion if I couldn't handle it.
EDIT: Ooh, the pink circle is my bridge ground wire... it's not a weirdly shaped wall.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 18, 2022 6:55:42 GMT -5
Glued bushing. Yeah, that happens. Basswood is on the softer side of hardwoods, and it's common to use a little glue to keep them in place. As you can see, the glue does help keep the bushing from going anywhere...
As far as pressing your Schaller bushings into the existing holes, that depends on the size of said holes and the recommended hole size according to Schaller. As I recall, it's a 10 mm hole, but defer to your install directions from Schaller over anything I can remember...
One quick thing about metric and the "old money" system. While you can get close making conversions either way, it's always going to be a compromise. For example to match a 10mm hole size, you'll be real close at 25\64". You might use a 3/8" bit, because it's easier to find and possibly cheaper.
25/64" = 9.921mm 3/8" = 9.525mm
While that's only a hair over 1/32" difference, and it is smaller than 10mm, so no glue should be needed...there is the chance of splitting the wood while pressing in the bushing. Your body is basswood, so the smaller size may be an advantage...but I got kicked by a horse yesterday...so verify anything I say with the manufacturer's recommendations.
Exact is.
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Dec 28, 2022 16:59:18 GMT -5
Just got the screw out with my sister’s sturdier tweezers! Mine were too flimsy and did nothing except move, or rather tilt, the screw side to side. I’m considering just having the experienced luthier install the new steel bushings bc cynical1 has said the wood along one of the bushing holes could break. [EDIT] The following started here: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9434/chilly-cold-freezing-water-unreg[/EDIT] (Three days ago that soldered water pipe burst at the solder point during the freeze. So, I ended up removing that entire pipe contraption; used my uncle’s grinder to cut the copper pipe at the top and also near the house. Then installed a semi-short piece of pex diagonally to complete the pipe[; took an entire day of researching/trips to the stores; ate lunch at 5pm after the water works again]. The pex meets the copper pipe through sharkbites. The sharkbites installed without solder! Nice! Then wrapped the pipe with insulation and covered that with a lot of black electrical tape; the duck tape I had used previously had broken apart after a year and the old insulation had broken apart allowing the water in that soldered section to freeze. Sharkbites and bendable pex are wonderful! )
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 29, 2022 9:30:18 GMT -5
To your credit, you did find something that sucks more than pulling a glued bushing...plumbing... As long as Code allows for Pex it will save you a lot of misery and time. Labor Unions are strong around Chicago, so building codes tend to reflect standards that only a licensed plumber can provide. We had to fork out just north of $7000.00 to redo the plumbing in my mother's house when we got here in 2019...then another $9000.00 for the sewer about two years later. It's amazing what 25 years of careful and studied neglect can do to a piece of property...but I digress... Back to guitars... Let me qualify this with three questions: 1.) How much affection do you hold for this guitar? 2.) Do you want the Floyd Rose to be an instant improvement...or a learning experience? 3.) Do you have the space and tools to perform the Floyd Rose install...without creating more problems for yourself down the road? As I said in the beginning, this is not an easy job to do, even if the friggin' bushing comes out in the first 5 minutes. This is a "measure twice, cut once...wait, better measure again" kind of job. Even with a shop full of tools this is a very exact process with little sympathy for "close enough..." Part of what I feel as my obligation when I reply to a thread on this forum is an honest appraisal of what a given job entails, tools required and skill level needed to complete successfully. Most of what wanders in here is pretty straightforward. Every once in a while a tough one comes in. You have a tough one. There is absolutely no shame in knowing when a project has reached that point where you need the services of a professional. Pyrroz went through something similar with his 7 string Ibanez. Once he found a qualified luthier, he had a guitar he could play within a short time, versus a collection of wood and metal he couldn't play. Know your limitations and act accordingly. Ain't this fun? HTC1
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Post by unreg on Dec 30, 2022 1:43:35 GMT -5
Back to guitars... Let me qualify this with three questions: 1.) How much affection do you hold for this guitar? 2.) Do you want the Floyd Rose to be an instant improvement...or a learning experience? 3.) Do you have the space and tools to perform the Floyd Rose install...without creating more problems for yourself down the road? 1.) It is my only guitar; I want it to work; high affection. 2.) I wanted the Schaller it to be a learning experience… and I’ve learned a bit of my limitations , but I also want it to work and I really desire to play/try to learn my guitar again! 3.) I have access to a drill press, but I’m not going to attempt to prevent that thin wood wall from breaking. Your advice is greatly appreciated; I now am going to get that luthier to install the bushings. Maybe even the entire Floyd Rose. Know your limitations and act accordingly. Ain't this fun? HTC1 Thank you sir cynical1! Yes, this has been great fun! But, I’ve reached my limitation… so I’ll act accordingly. 👍
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 30, 2022 8:18:20 GMT -5
If you have learned that nothing on a guitar is as simple as it looks, you have learned something valuable. If you liked the old trem, you'll love the new one.
The same trick works for any future work...the more time you can give him the better price you'll get. It's not just the install, it's the setup that follows install that can make your hair thin out. If your luthier is willing, you might want to sit in while he does the setup. This is one of those jobs that touches the "heart and spine" of the guitar...so you can absorb volumes of information just by watching. Take pictures, make notes...and if he's in a good mood, ask a few questions. Bring coffee and pastries...it always worked on me...
To be honest, I wouldn't try that project with the tools I have left...and I appear to have a few more than you do.
You made the smart decision. You and your guitar will be much happier in the end...and you get to keep all of your fingers...
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Dec 30, 2022 21:02:02 GMT -5
You made the smart decision. You and your guitar will be much happier in the end...and you get to keep all of your fingers... Thank you! 😊 And… I am curious about your last statement here… do you have a story to tell?
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 1, 2023 7:58:26 GMT -5
No story. More like a regional figure of speech.
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Jan 4, 2023 18:48:23 GMT -5
Just dropped my guitar off; I’m back from vacation now. He said he doesn’t allow people to watch the work bc he works on many guitars at once… so it would take an entire day… he said he could explain the process of what he did when I pick up my guitar; so that will be cool! 😀
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 4, 2023 19:18:33 GMT -5
Not a big deal. When you pick it up ask him about any Floyd voodoo he may want to share. Glad things are moving forward.
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Feb 16, 2023 1:09:43 GMT -5
It’s installed 😀 and is here now! I’m so happy! Sir luthier said he had to insert hard something mahogany(?) into the old “anchor” holes and then drill new holes for my Schaller bushings. That way, the wood didn’t split . Then he simply set up my guitar. I’ve got to return and try to pickup my Allen wrenches necessary for intonation. I left the entire Schaller box with him; maybe I’ll be able to get that too. Note: I don’t remember now what the exact wood name was, but I’ll ask again tomorrow. (He even volunteered that wood name when he called, but I had to ask him its name before I left around his quitting time.) He mentioned that it was an extremely hard wood. And he also said all the work was guaranteed; if I have any problems he said to call him.
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Post by b4nj0 on Feb 16, 2023 4:16:09 GMT -5
Great news unreg. I love it when a plan comes together! I pressed bushes into a Schecter one-piece Hawaiian Koa S-Type, but the holes would have benefited from being a fuzz larger. It was scarily hard to get them in and I'd picked the best twist drill I had for size, not necessarily the spot-on accurate option. The holes are perhaps 1/16" from the edge of the vibrato route and it still makes me uneasy ten years on, but so far it's thumbs up. Warmoth, American Guitar Parts- they're certainly good, but that old Schecter body is definitely a cut-above stylish and sleek example of wood profiling and finishing. Schecter stopped selling parts donkeys' years ago in favour of complete instruments. BTW; "TTIWWOP" でつ e&oe ...
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 16, 2023 5:05:45 GMT -5
It’s installed 😀 and is here now! I’m so happy! ...and you still have all of your fingers... Plugging and redrilling the holes was the way to go. Seems like you found a good tech. So, what do you notice with the new Schaller installed? I'm glad it all worked out in the end. Pictures would be cool... HTC1
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Post by thetragichero on Feb 16, 2023 9:44:04 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet he used oak because one can obtain 4ft oak dowels in various diameters at the local big box hardware store
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Post by unreg on Feb 16, 2023 15:49:25 GMT -5
Thank you b4nj0, cynical1, and thetragichero! So, what do you notice with the new Schaller installed? I'm glad it all worked out in the end. Pictures would be cool... HTC1 I haven't played it yet... have to go now... but 3 pics In that last pic, you can see part of the vertical wall where I didn't "paint" it black, bc that part was untouched from how I received the guitar new. Now, the Schaller is kind of shorter, but hopefully that part of the wall won't be visible... maybe I could "paint" it black now, since there's a bit of room. Oh, retrieved my Shaller box today! But, sigh, forgot to ask him that wood type. Will call him later. No, thetragichero, it wasn't that wood... will reply later with the type.
...And he said that he didn't install the black metal plate, the one that should cover over the unpainted area around the bushing holes, bc it caused the bridge to sit tilted and he didn't like that.
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Post by pyrroz on Feb 16, 2023 15:52:53 GMT -5
Nice but the luthier might just touch up this part a little bit to look even nicer.
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 16, 2023 16:01:09 GMT -5
Black nail polish. Get the cheap stuff, it's all lacquer. Certain members in the trade have used nail polish to hide dings and scratches for very a long time. Don't ask me how I know that...
I like the black Floyd. Very stealthy. It looks good where he plugged and redrilled.
Try some Shawn Lane stuff...you now have the hardware...
Glad all ended well.
HTC1
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Post by unreg on Feb 16, 2023 16:14:51 GMT -5
The wood he used was Rock Hard Maple. cynical1, yes, going to use my black nail polish to do the touch ups. Emptied a good amount in the large black area… have some leftover. Thank you, I’m going to relearn Radiohead and practice lots. I’ll check out the guitarist you recommended me.
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Post by cynical1 on Feb 16, 2023 16:33:08 GMT -5
guitarist you recommended me Epilogue for Lisa Good place to start. Harder than it looks... HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Feb 16, 2023 16:57:00 GMT -5
The wood he used was Rock Hard Maple. cynical1, yes, going to use my black nail polish to do the touch ups. Emptied a good amount in the large black area… have some leftover. Thank you, I’m going to relearn Radiohead and practice lots. I’ll check out the guitarist you recommended me.
Play some Shawn Lane man!! You can play Radiohead without a floyd or a guitar hahaha!
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