PRS shows their bode plots!

[gpdb]

This is amazing to see them post this information. Having PRS's reputation behind this method will change a lot of people's minds on how valuable this measurement process is:

[antigua]

 I have mixed feelings about it, because on the one hand yeah it will convince some people that there is value in bode plots and technical details, but on the other hand I think they're paying lip service to the actual practice of pickup analysis. This frame in particular shows his rambling about stuff that isn't closely related, like magnet strength and wax potting...



I think ultimately he's trying to have his cake and eat it too, appeal to guitarists who are taking notice of bode plots and specs, but at the same time trying to keep the magic alive by stating some flowery nonsense about wire and magnets, along with melodramatic hand waving.

We see a couple employees supposedly using the plots in order to design a pickup, I'd rather they have made the video, I'd love to see what they have to say about the plots and how exactly they're putting them to use in the design process, because it sounds like Paul is only vaguely aware of what they're actually doing. I believe they're doing something with the data, because that's a lot of trouble to go through otherwise. 

He says the resonance is like a note you always hear, in fact you only hear it when the guitar string is producing a harmonic at the resonance, which it often isn't. He talks about the plot indicating a humbucker sounds like a single coil, but a bode plot doesn't account for the dimensional differences of pickups. His long used analogy that a guitar pickup is like a microphone is also not accurate, a piezo could more credibly be compared to a microphone. Also consider that PAF style pickups, which is almost entirely what they load PRS guitars with, tend to have a flat roll off, no resonant amplitude in situ, because of the combination of eddy currents and control pot load, there's not much resonance to speak of. Paul doesn't mention eddy currents at all, nor depict the fact on his white board, because that would certainly undermine the entire presentation. 

But on the bright side maybe he will lead some people to look up Helmuth Lemme and the like, and they will find the truth there. 

[gpdb]

I definitely understand your point. As far as all the points mentioned that are irrelevant to the plots like potting, I think that's just Paul wanting to make it seem like there are more variables than there really are. Making it sound complicated makes it more impressive, even when it's not. My main point is that this video makes this data mainstream. And as you've seen with what I'm working on, that's incredibly beneficial to me and my website. 

I actually spoke with Paul earlier this year on the phone. I shared with them the plots of several of their pickups and I think that got their attention (I also softly asked if they were infringing on a DiMarzio patent and I don't think they liked that). But we discussed all this stuff and even in that call, he was still trying to keep things as close to the vest as possible. But I specifically remember him saying something like, "clearly you've figured this out and know what's going on." And I understood that as referring to the plots. I had also shared my article I wrote about what the TCI-process was, and now that they've posted this video my analysis was verified.

As far as what they're really using the plots for, it's absolutely to reference older pickups and recreate them. He made that pretty obvious, referring to all the vintage pickups they had bought, measured, and torn apart to be metallurgically analyzed. 

[antigua]

Nov 19, 2022 13:03:03 GMT -5 gpdb said:

As far as what they're really using the plots for, it's absolutely to reference older pickups and recreate them. He made that pretty obvious, referring to all the vintage pickups they had bought, measured, and torn apart to be metallurgically analyzed. 

Oh that makes a lot of sense. Their methodology might be imperfect, but from a marketing stand point, it's obviously helpful to say "we analyzed a real 1959 PAF using fancy laboratory equipment" with the print outs to prove it. 

You think they might have violated a DiMarzio patent? I'd be curious if you could private message me about that one, just because I wouldn't want to give DiMarzio any ideas about who they can sue next. If you're thinking along the lines of "dual resonance", I can tell you there's no much technical merit to those patents to begin with.  

[gpdb]

I'm happy to share the patent thing here, it's not a major issue. I bought one of their Silver Sky SE pickups (635JM "S") to test. When I got it, I noticed that it had metal inserts in between each of the magnetic poles. This is exactly what DiMarzio calls "Virtual Vintage." They have the same metal inserts in many of their pickups, and it is patented. I wasn't aware the patent had a 20-year lifespan, and it had just expired recently. So I think technically if the patent wasn't expired, it would have infringed on that. Regardless, the 635JM (USA model) does not have these magnetic inserts. I have a write-up on it here: guitarpickupdatabase.com/prs-silver-sky-635jm-vs-635jm-s/

I'm pretty sure the only reason I got the call with Paul was that they thought I was a patent troll. So the conversation didn't start off very smoothly. He also said he'd never seen the patent before. Once I assured him I was just a PRS owner who was a pickup nerd, it became a more friendly conversation.

[antigua]

Interesting. In both cases of DiMarzio and PRS adding those slugs, I doubt they increase the output to any noticeable degree, because while it does decrease the magnetic reluctance, it does so very little. The ratio to open air is still very high, and they're off axis with the magnetized guitar strings. We also don't know if those slugs are steal, or AlNiCo, but it still barely matters. Raising the pickup by less than a millimeter closer the strings probably reduces the reluctance path by the same amount, the same effect of closing air gap in the circuit. I can't tell if they believe it makes a difference, or if they do it for marketing. I think DiMarzio did it for the marketing gimmick value, to have a fancy looking patent number next to the words "Virtual Vintage", but I don't think PRS ever advertised having done it.