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Post by asmith on Dec 13, 2022 16:52:09 GMT -5
I don't 'get' Allan Holdsworth.
Help me out here. What am I supposed to be listening for?
If it helps, I'm not a complete philistine. I dig some of 'the weird stuff'. Trout Mask Replica is a cakewalk. Tentative forays into the abstract side of jazz, like Journey In Satchidananda, have been thoroughly enjoyed. (Ornette Coleman is still not yet listenable, despite how much I admire that somebody had to do what he did, and it was him that did it.)
But I don't understand Allan.
Help me understand.
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Post by unreg on Dec 13, 2022 17:30:16 GMT -5
Hmmm… I just listened to this twice:
and I enjoyed it more the second time. Wikipedia said he was a guitarist that was an expert in music theory. From comments on yt, it seems other great guitarists listen to Allan Holdsworth and wonder what in the world he was doing; he seems to acquire great respect that way.
Guess his music requires listening repetition to gain deep appreciation. It’s a unique take on guitar; I read he wanted to play the sax before learning guitar. And so maybe his guitar music is his way of playing a sax?
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 13, 2022 18:03:39 GMT -5
...but, I don't understand Allan. Help me understand. Man, I can see the same expression as I saw when "The Chicken" was suggested at an open mic night one evening...but the winds shifted and blew in the Autumn Leaves... Holdsworth is a little like Coltrane...if you think you get it, you might have missed it... Or Guthrie Govan...in how the Hell does he do it... Or Bill Evans in that it's always musical no matter where it goes... Years ago I read an interview in a magazine (...anyone remember magazines?) where his primary focus was to make his guitar sound like anything but a guitar. Remember the Synthaxe... If you think you're confused now, watch a few of his videos on "chord families". I felt like Rainman the first time I watched them. Check out his Soft Machine stuff and the first UK album. Then migrate to his solo stuff. It's a long journey, but worth the trip. Get to it...there's people trying to drink here... HTC1 |
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Post by newey on Dec 13, 2022 21:40:02 GMT -5
asmith- If Trout Mask Replica is in your wheelhouse (or, for that matter, on your turntable . . .), you're already out in Edge City. Or, as the late, great Kinky Friedman put it: "out where the buses don't run . . ." I can admire Holdworth for sheer technical virtuosity. I can't hum it in the elevator. Mostly, I want to hear stuff I can hum in the elevator. So, lump me in with the Philistines, I guess. The clip unreg posted reminded me quite a bit of John McLaughlin, who I also think is one of the great technical guitarists. But I can't hum Mahavishnu Orchestra in the elevator either . . .
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 13, 2022 23:16:06 GMT -5
I was a major Holdsworth fanatic in the early to mid 80s. He actually made up his own scales and based his theory off them, which meant he could not competently play over traditional jazz changes. Some of his scales span more than an octave. That's not technically what a scale is, but I guess he used them as a form of modal inspiration, if that makes sense. He also layered two chords (bimodal?) in reoccurring tension and resolution phrases within his compositions. It becomes evident when you listen for it. As strange as some of his compositions were, I get emotional listening back to those first several solo albums.
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Post by asmith on Dec 18, 2022 6:42:10 GMT -5
Man, I can see the same expression as... I still probably can't jam The Chicken live. |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 18, 2022 7:50:20 GMT -5
That's OK...Jaco can't jam to it anymore either...
Holdsworth is an anomaly. Like any musician that devotes their life to music, there is an evolution over time. While nowhere near as drastic as Miles, though still discernible.
Holdsworth with Soft Machine, about 4 years after Bitches Brew came out.
Sounds like a nice fusion bunch of folks...
Holdsworth sitting in with Pat Smythe around the same time. You start to see where he wanted to go at the time.
First solo album, Velvet Darkness from 1976. This was allegedly released without Holdsworth's consent.
Listen to this one, if for no other reason to see where things evolved by 1982 with I.O.U
With UK in 1978.
He left after this album over creative differences. It seems Bruford and Whetton wanted him to play the same solo every night...that, and this is really the only song where the guitar does anything interesting on the album...
I.O.U, in 1982 was the first solo album where he had artistic control of the content.
While he seemed to go out of his way to tread his own path, he did have a collaboration with Mark Varny as producer in 1990. Frank Gambale plays on this album with him. The album was a collection of jazz cover tunes, it did have one original by Gambale, New Boots.
He didn't stick around for Centrifugal Funk...which has Shawn Lane on it...but I digress.
YouTube is filled more than enough research material to keep you going all winter.
Holdsworth can be an acquired taste...ask my wife...
HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 19, 2022 3:33:02 GMT -5
That's OK...Jaco can't jam to it anymore either... Holdsworth is an anomaly. Like any musician that devotes their life to music, there is an evolution over time. While nowhere near as drastic as Miles, though still discernible. Holdsworth with Soft Machine, about 4 years after Bitches Brew came out. HTC1
great technique there, almost flawless legato and fluid tone, if we imagine he did it with equipment of 1974!! +1 from me!
Does anyone know if he used humbuckers or SC in this song?
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 19, 2022 5:33:13 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 19, 2022 6:49:51 GMT -5
...if we imagine he did it with equipment of 1974!! Those are deep waters you tread there...look what Hendrix was doing back in the 60's... Look at what Zappa did with a bicycle back in the 60's Great musicians transcend the technology. HTC1 |
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