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Post by pyrroz on Jan 15, 2023 13:33:24 GMT -5
Hi all.
When I say monsters, I mean players with soul, knowledge, imagination, strength, speed and technique that is remarkable still 50 years after. To name a few that I consider super guitar heroes of the 70s, in the sense that I find it so hard even today to learn their top solos:
1) Al Dimeola (very good but not my cup of tea) 2) Eric Johnson
3) Steve Morse 4) Eddie Van Halen (I guess you know this one!)
5) Uli Jon Roth (a great mind, a greater soul, and the inventor of neoclassical)
For today I wanna post this, just hear the solo, I cannot even start learning this, the tears blind me!!
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 15, 2023 16:57:54 GMT -5
In no particular order:
- Anyone who ever played guitar for the Yardbirds.
- Robert White, Joe Messina, and Eddie Willis (Motown)
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
- Joe Pass
- Carlos Santana
EDIT: almost forgot ... Mark Knopfler
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Post by newey on Jan 15, 2023 19:07:02 GMT -5
There is one group of guitarists who can play more notes in less time than I can- they're faster than I will ever be. This impresses me a little.
There is another group where, with some study and practice, I can play their solos note by note, but I will never sound the same as they do- they have a "feel", "soul in their fingers", call it what you will, but they've got it and I don't. Time and practice won't change that, although it would probably speed me up. This impresses me much more. The group is large, but in it I put B.B. King, George Benson, Carlos Santana, Peter Green among others.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 15, 2023 21:52:49 GMT -5
I'm gonna go down the cynical1 route, and name James Jamerson as my most influential 'monster' player. Motown wouldn't have risen nearly so high, if not for him. But if you limited the list to no bass players, then I'd have to nominate Tommy Tedesco. Might as well add Roy Clark right behind him. And if you were generous, and allowed steel guitar players, then it's Jeff Newman all the way!  But I sure wish the limits weren't placed on only the 70's. If I could go back 20 years further, then it'd be Phil Baugh, hands down the best Country Guitarist that ever lived. And of course, if you're not tied to a "popular" genre in the good ol' USofA, then you'd go to France and swoon over Jean Reinhardt, better known by the name Django. Talk about a player with no fear..... sumgai |
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 15, 2023 23:33:37 GMT -5
My favorites were perhaps more conventional. Some started more in the late 70s:
- Jeff Beck (RIP): Still steeped in my Hendrix obsession at age 13, I was bowled over by Blow By Blow and Wired. Maybe not up to snuff technically, but a major innovator.
- John McLaughlin: just mind-boggling to me at age 15. Well-trained and highly skilled, he could sound too technical at times, but has done a fair share of beautiful and imaginative stuff.
- Randy Roos: discovered him at age 15 when he warmed up for the Mahavishnu Orchestra at Berklee Performance Center. Superb trained musician and teacher.
- Pat Metheny: Made me fall in love with modern jazz in my mid-teens.
- Allan Holdsworth (RIP): began a long obsession in my late teens.
- Steve Howe: Come on...it's Steve Howe. Yes was awesome.
Honorable mentions:
- Robert Fripp: my brother and I learned a few KC tunes when I was 14. Loved his unique style and sound in the way I appreciated jeff beck.
- Brian May: first obsession after Hendrix. My first girlfriend was a big Queen fan. I still listen to them on occasion.
- Steve Hackett: Many of my HS friends were major Genesis fans. He was really quite good.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 16, 2023 2:39:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna go down the cynical1 route, and name James Jamerson as my most influential 'monster' player. Motown wouldn't have risen nearly so high, if not for him. But if you limited the list to no bass players, then I'd have to nominate Tommy Tedesco. Might as well add Roy Clark right behind him. And if you were generous, and allowed steel guitar players, then it's Jeff Newman all the way! But I sure wish the limits weren't placed on only the 70's. If I could go back 20 years further, then it'd be Phil Baugh, hands down the best Country Guitarist that ever lived. And of course, if you're not tied to a "popular" genre in the good ol' USofA, then you'd go to France and swoon over Jean Reinhardt, better known by the name Django. Talk about a player with no fear..... sumgai
I checked Tommy Tedesco., could play the guitar for sure, and also sick right hand picking, there lies all the magic. The most difficult with picking in alternate strings is coordinate staccato with legato, count, calculate, this is very hard. The one who plays all those naturally (like Yngwie Malmsteen, or Uli Roth) plus he's got the soul to move you, to make your day better, as Uli Roth did yesterday with my day, then those ppl are gift from God. I love Uli Roth so much , he's got such a gifted soul, that I would love to see him accepted as a Saint in Orthodox Church, like : Ulios Rothios O Kitharodos ! protector of the guitarists! Roy Clark is known to me, a monster for sure! But non-distorted guitars does not allow this fluid-like playing of the later players! Django ?? phenomenal, considered one of his fingers was burnt and useless. Great great players all of those.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 16, 2023 2:59:53 GMT -5
Check the picking on this one : 1977 !!
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Post by sumgai on Jan 16, 2023 4:37:42 GMT -5
Shoulda thought of these two first, but I'm not always thinking in terms of the blues. For second place, we don't need to leave these shores to know that there was a good reason why Mike Bloomfield was voted by players for several years running in Guitar Player magazine as the best blues guitar player. Died too early to establish much of a catalog, but Gawd almighty was he ever a soulful player. Here's my favorite tune by him:
Now if we're allowed to go overseas, then there's only one blues player that deserves mention, although he could rock the house right into the ground. Every non-American player the world over knows I'm talkin' 'bout Rory Gallagher. YouTube doesn't have a lot of his work, but there are some good ones available. For instance, this one seems to be at the top of most critic's lists:
But sometimes he could dust off an old chestnut with new life, like so:
But this one is my personal favorite:
It took me a long time to learn all the parts of that one.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 16, 2023 5:16:05 GMT -5
I was a big Rory Gallagher fan in my youth, circa 1982, Bad Penny, Philby, shadow play, moon child, do you read me, etc... great solos, sound and performance. Less fuzzy, less heavy comes Mark Knopfler, a true genious, clean, remarkable, who hasn't played the "sultans of swings". Crazy nice strat tones (I still cant figure out why he went Gibson after such a great success with the rad strat).
so lots of soul in both.. But .... I can play them, not exactly, but darn close, without any practice, same is true for any old-school conventional pre-80s rock player. And many pre-90s hard rock and metal players. It was only after EVH and Malsmteen that rock guitar took off... I mean massively with a large fan base and an army of guitarists trying to play technically... and then I revisit some old players from the 70s who ALREADY could do that before it became a trend!!! I mean EVH and Uli Roth.
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Post by newey on Jan 16, 2023 8:38:58 GMT -5
It was only after EVH and Malsmteen that rock guitar took off... I mean massively with a large fan base and an army of guitarists trying to play technically.. Well, pyrroz, I don't know if you were around in the 1960's or early 1970's but I was one of an army of guitarists trying to copy Clapton, Peter Green, Page, and many more who perhaps are no longer as well known like Alvin Lee and John Cippolina. All of those people had large fan bases back then, and guitarists trying to learn their techniques. Not to say that EVH wasn't inspirational for many players, he was. But he was also building upon many of those mentioned above. And, one must keep in mind the limitations of the technology, decade by decade. It wasn't until the 1970's that concert sound systems were good enough to allow for big arena shows with good enough sound that videos like the Rory Gallagher ones above could be recorded. Would EVH have even developed his tap technique on a 1960's vintage Strat with a baseball-bat neck, radiused fingerboard, 12-gauge strings, and high action? Doubtful, IMHO. Not to say that he would not still have been a great player, it's just that what can be done is dictated by the technology one has available. Rock became Big Business around 1969- 1970, and there was an explosion of gear available around that time (because there was an army of players to buy the stuff). But up until then, the only pedals available were the classic fuzztones, wahs and some pretty primitive gain pedals like the Ranger. Amps had tremolo and reverb, no gain channels. The biggest amps that were available were 100 watt Marshalls, and there were no solid state amps that sounded halfway decent.If one was playing a gig, there was no miking of amps or drums, FOH was just vocals (if that). If we look back to the 1950's, there were guitar heroes back then, too, but they were even more limited by the primitive technology available. There wasn't the army of guitarists trying to copy their licks, but other players did take notice of guys like Link Wray, Eddie Cochran, Scotty Moore. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 16, 2023 9:25:14 GMT -5
No Ernie Isley?
No Robin Trower?
No Jan Ackerman?
No Ronnie Montrose?
No Bill Nelson?
And if sumgai can sneak James Jamerson in there, I have to put Jaco in here...
As long as we're talking musicians from the 70's...and although he didn't play much guitar in the 70's...he played the Hell out of it later...where's Prince?
Where's David Gilmour?
To be honest, some of the most impressive players I ever heard in the 70's were the myriad of players in clubs all over Chicago...in a time before the Internet...when venues abounded and disco was just a shadow looming on the horizon...but I digress...
HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 16, 2023 13:38:10 GMT -5
It was only after EVH and Malsmteen that rock guitar took off... I mean massively with a large fan base and an army of guitarists trying to play technically.. Well, pyrroz, I don't know if you were around in the 1960's or early 1970's but I was one of an army of guitarists trying to copy Clapton, Peter Green, Page, and many more who perhaps are no longer as well known like Alvin Lee and John Cippolina. All of those people had large fan bases back then, and guitarists trying to learn their techniques. Not to say that EVH wasn't inspirational for many players, he was. But he was also building upon many of those mentioned above. And, one must keep in mind the limitations of the technology, decade by decade. It wasn't until the 1970's that concert sound systems were good enough to allow for big arena shows with good enough sound that videos like the Rory Gallagher ones above could be recorded. Would EVH have even developed his tap technique on a 1960's vintage Strat with a baseball-bat neck, radiused fingerboard, 12-gauge strings, and high action? Doubtful, IMHO. Not to say that he would not still have been a great player, it's just that what can be done is dictated by the technology one has available. Rock became Big Business around 1969- 1970, and there was an explosion of gear available around that time (because there was an army of players to buy the stuff). But up until then, the only pedals available were the classic fuzztones, wahs and some pretty primitive gain pedals like the Ranger. Amps had tremolo and reverb, no gain channels. The biggest amps that were available were 100 watt Marshalls, and there were no solid state amps that sounded halfway decent.If one was playing a gig, there was no miking of amps or drums, FOH was just vocals (if that). If we look back to the 1950's, there were guitar heroes back then, too, but they were even more limited by the primitive technology available. There wasn't the army of guitarists trying to copy their licks, but other players did take notice of guys like Link Wray, Eddie Cochran, Scotty Moore.
I get your point, in its social / industry dimension. However besides any perception of soul which is a personal thing, how many of those guys took guitar at the next level? Page did not. Hendrix IMHO did not. Clapton did not. How much did Jimmy Page improve after Led Zeppelin I, or the yardbirds? He was a good blues player and stayed such. Who else? Clapton, only blues , blues and more blues. Rory was more tasteful , but still , rock , rock and more rock. No innovation. Nothing unplayable by the masses.
There were innovators back then, like the ones ppl here mentioned (Holdsworth, McLauphlin, Eric Johnson, Steve Morse and others, Jazz, Gypsy Jazz, country, even Italian guys, Balkan guys, eastern euro guys), but still, either they played nice things but easy, or strange things albeit were technical and hard to play.
OTOH players like EVH, Uli Roth played both magnificently PLUS they were ultra hard to play! Thats what I mean, modern rock music that made everyone cry or dance, but still so so hard to play!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 17, 2023 9:03:56 GMT -5
I get your point, in its social / industry dimension. However besides any perception of soul which is a personal thing, how many of those guys took guitar at the next level? In 1978 Eddie released Eruption. Finger tapping he was still making hay on twenty years later when this was recorded: About 4 years later, in 1982, Stanley Jordan released Return Expedition...which is both hands tapping: 20 years later he released Past and Future, same technique: Who evolved? HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 17, 2023 14:07:30 GMT -5
Hmmm Jazz players were always good. Especially Gypsy players, my kinda thing, IMHO. Stanley Jordan sure played fantastic, it is evident! If you are into fusion, jazz, that kind of thing, then Stanley Jordan all the way.
IMHO all of them made a huge leap forward and then stayed there. EVH was incredible since day 1, in eruption and you really got me, then again in Fair Warning album, but nothing major after that. YJM was kicking in Steeler and Alcatraz, and maybe his first two solo albums, but pretty much stayed at this level. So they played at their top level since the beginning or somewhat mehh for some years and then they evolved suddenly and abruptly and then stayed there. Uli Roth played like hendrix in the first two Scoprions albums, nothing to write home about. But he made a huge jump after In Trance.
btw talking about tapping what the !!! Vittorio Camardese !!!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 17, 2023 14:58:08 GMT -5
talking about tapping what the !!! Vittorio Camardese !!! That was cool. Another rabbit hole to go down. Yeah, genre plays a big hand in who gets selected for idolization...and nonsensical remuneration. I have drifted off more into the jazz side of things over time. It started with...  ...and never went into remission. I've always been drawn to anything I haven't heard before...and time does not seem to soften that... HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 17, 2023 17:04:54 GMT -5
talking about tapping what the !!! Vittorio Camardese !!! That was cool. Another rabbit hole to go down. Yeah, genre plays a big hand in who gets selected for idolization...and nonsensical remuneration. I have drifted off more into the jazz side of things over time. It started with b  h's Brew and never went into remission. I've always been drawn to anything I haven't heard before...and time does not seem to soften that... HTC1
I am listening to the Miles Davis album, lets see what I understand!
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 17, 2023 20:18:10 GMT -5
B's Brew was a big hit with us in the Electronics dept in The Kendall Coop in Cambridge, MA when we first played it on the stereo in the late 80s. I went through an Avant-Garde period for a decade or so from then. "Outside" stuff can get tiresome depending on my mood, but I still love it.
A teenager avoiding the war lived with us in the late 60s for a while. He hipped me to some great music when I was a kid, including The Mothers of Invention's first album. Was gonna mention Zappa in my list, but his guitar playing didn't really fit the requirements.
My first exposure to Avant-Garde jazz was Weather Report: I Sing The Body Electric. My dad took us to a record store to buy some albums when I was 7, and my older brother and I liked the album cover. I drifted off listening as it inspired imagery. I thought it might be an alien choir communicating something urgent. A remarkable experience I'll always cherish.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 18, 2023 0:21:54 GMT -5
Since Holdsworth came up...and we're talking the 70's, he was with Soft Machine for a while. An early fusionesque ensemble:
Another one that just came back to me was Brand X.
Although UZEB started in the mid 70's, they didn't release an album until 1982. This show is from 1991.
I'll go back in my box now.
HTC1
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Post by newey on Jan 18, 2023 6:16:59 GMT -5
Growing up, my dad was a fan of jazz combos like Brubeck, Mulligan, Monk, etc. I hated all that stuff, Blues and Rock were my taste. Later, during my college days, fusion bands, especially Brand X, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Stanley Clarke, Chick Corea were my entree into more standard jazz, I went back and started listening to Brubeck, Miles etc. and developed an appreciation for what they were doing. But I have to be "In The Mood" for that genre of music, it's not something I'm going to put on the turntable every day. Gimme three power chords and a cloud of dust . . .
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 18, 2023 9:50:10 GMT -5
ahaaa!! so this explains why he played like not so super talented on the first two albums!! a guitar beginner !!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 19, 2023 11:46:45 GMT -5
ahaaa!! so this explains why he played like not so super talented on the first two albums!! a guitar beginner !! At the risk of Gumbo-ing this thread... I think it's a question of finding your voice...and being willing to follow it regardless of what others may tell you about what you hear. Stevie Ray Vaughn had an open invitation to tour with David Bowie, but he declined to stay with Double Trouble. Which give me a clumsy segue to Why no Stevie Ray? He recorded this monster back in 1970. Just listen to the guitar part where I started it. This song sucks for the most part... And while Tin Pan Alley was recorded after the 70's, it's much better than my previous offering... ...and that's a white Peavey T-60 guitar Johnny Copeland is playing. Only available in 1980 and 1981. A genuine steal for what they go for these days...but I digress... HTC1 |
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Post by newey on Jan 19, 2023 13:00:43 GMT -5
OK, we have a new verb- "gumboing".
Defined as:
Consider it officially gumboed.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 19, 2023 13:57:09 GMT -5
OK, we have a new verb- "gumboing". Defined as: I'm humbled... HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 19, 2023 14:49:46 GMT -5
WOW Steve Ray Vaughan is freaking fast, albeit strictly bluesy!! and with 13's gauge!! wowwww tough player! incredible.... I cant play with 11s Geezoz!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 19, 2023 15:20:35 GMT -5
...albeit strictly bluesy!! Well, yeah...there's that... I've got 13s on Project #2. Sort of why it's set up for Open D slide at the moment... HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 20, 2023 0:19:27 GMT -5
I'd like to try e.g. 12s some day, if my consciousness lets me put an instrument through such unnecessary stress.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 20, 2023 7:49:30 GMT -5
What happened to Cyn1's post on the UJR's axe?
btw, funny moment, the young dude with the les paul plays smth off, and the maestro reacts :
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Post by newey on Jan 20, 2023 9:30:47 GMT -5
I have an acoustic strung with 13s. If I play it exclusively for a few days and then go back to an electric, I feel like Superman.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 20, 2023 10:45:54 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 20, 2023 11:01:52 GMT -5
We seem to be leaning more towards virtuoso technique versus feel in this thread.
Let me toss Robbie Robertson into the fray to counter that.
Anyone who can hand Clapton his hat like this deserves to be remembered.
HTC1
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