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Post by sumgai on Jan 22, 2023 13:14:15 GMT -5
I'm gonna dedicate this thread to Johnny Diego's "No Rock Sunday" tradition, and chase after c1's jazz affliction. But here, we also have some funk going on. More later, but take a look at this: Now, if I had to go for a bass player, this is the one I'd pick. The above video is actually on her channel, Juna Serita. I've known about her for a long time, as she has been dubbed "The Princess Of Funk" for her bass playing skills, which show in the above video only a little bit. Cast around her channel, and you'll find that she also plays guitar (no surprise there) and all manner of other instruments - sax, clarinet, flute, keyboards, who knows where it ends. I can't recommend her enough, her channel has a lot of varied material. Oh, you say that you want to see some fusion going on? How about some funky Black Sabbath? My treat: Have a good 'un! sumgai |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 22, 2023 18:28:04 GMT -5
I'm gonna dedicate this thread to Johnny Diego's "No Rock Sunday" tradition, and chase after c1's jazz affliction. Yeah, it's like musical hepatitis... Funk. Man, until someone takes the moniker from his cold dead hands, Prince is still the funkiest man to draw breath. He even made Miles Davis funky... Back to that jazz affliction...let me toss in one of my favorite bass players still above ground. Marcus Miller. ...and the only bass clarinet player I can recall... She's actually cropped up in the algorithm before, but I missed Iron Man cover. Ahhh...no lyrics... HTC1 |
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 23, 2023 0:14:19 GMT -5
To me, the funkiest man to draw breath (and still breathing hard!) is the incomparable Jamaaladeen Tacuma. This clipping YT clip pretty much has everything I like about experimental Jazz/Funk with some great players:
Here's a better-sounding recording from a few years earlier with another of my favorite experimental guitarists: the OTHER David Gilmore. Pink Floyd's Gilmore is great and all for his contributions, but I prefer this one:
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 23, 2023 5:25:01 GMT -5
I'm gonna dedicate this thread to Johnny Diego's "No Rock Sunday" tradition, and chase after c1's jazz affliction. Yeah, it's like musical hepatitis... Funk. Man, until someone takes the moniker from his cold dead hands, Prince is still the funkiest man to draw breath. He even made Miles Davis funky... Back to that jazz affliction...let me toss in one of my favorite bass players still above ground. Marcus Miller. ...and the only bass clarinet player I can recall... She's actually cropped up in the algorithm before, but I missed Iron Man cover. Ahhh...no lyrics... HTC1 I actually got put off by Prince when an annoying coworker of mine at the Kendal CooP in the late 80's insisted on playing his live videos on my dept's TV. Just got sick of it, and I didn't really like his stage show style. I don't think Wendy & Lisa were crazy about how he portrayed them, and both Sheila E and Vanity have had some choice words about him. Granted, he did showcase his W & L conflict in Purple Rain, so it's not like he was trying to hide it. That's commendable. I was a bit let down to see that he had other musicians play the thematically extended section of (I think it was: Let's Go Crazy?) during the closing credits. He was no doubt an industrious creative genius and some in the industry report he was great to work with and very generous. He was a diverse songwriter-- Pop Life being one of my fav's, and I did find his Madhouse project keyboard work impressive. My criticism would be that he spread himself too thin so that he didn't fully excel at any discipline, although he had gobs of talent. Even after all that, it was great fun singing and playing reasonable facsimiles of Let's Go Crazy and 1999 in my cover band back in the day, and I do miss him. Can't help feeling that, as with Michael Jackson, the pressure to continue to perform at the same physical level might have contributed to the excessive drug use that killed him. That's another reason I'm not a fan of that type of stage persona, and I would point some blame at ignorant starry-eyed fans that contribute to the pressure. Would it have even been possible for either of them to continue doing shows without dancing like they once could? I would have been happy to just hear where he took his music, but I'm from the pre-MTV generation. I did listen to the first Marcus Miller video. I've certainly heard him play in ensembles b4, but never paid much attention. That was some seriously tasty and masterful contextual playing there. Tacuma could be accused of overplaying by comparison, but it's a very different approach, and I just love what he does. Just when I think he's becoming predictable, he surprises again with another unique phrase...and it's always funky. He's so adept at polyrhythmic and harmolodic improvisation that it can seem like a mess at times, but it's always flowing somewhere musical. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:02:00 GMT -5
Prince is certainly a love it or leave it type of musician. I can only agree that he was "Framptonized" by the industry back in the 80's. Remember the immortal words of Hunter S. Thompson...
Given a choice, I'll take anything after 1996 when he tossed off the Warner Brothers coil. Once he stopped charting, his music became much more interesting in my mind. If you have time to kill one day, look around for any of his Montreux live shows. I think you'll be surprised.
Stage persona. Yeah, there is no shortage of the antics eclipsing the music within the industry...GWAR being the inevitable marker of slightly too far for reason... When you have 40+ albums released over 35 years...on which you play somewhere around 20 different instruments on...to me, there has to be something there to explore and understand...and he certainly proselytized the one better than anyone.
The first time I noticed Marcus Miller was when Miles Davis released Tutu back in the mid 80's...where Miller wrote the bulk of the tunes.
If you missed it I highly recommend it. Miller revisited the album contents back in the 2000's with a new crop of musicians...also something worth searching out.
I admit, I didn't recognize Jamaaladeen Tacuma. I remember when he was Rudy McDaniel playing with Ornette Coleman. (Ornette could be considered an acquired taste if you're unfamiliar with him. I warned you...)
I was surprised to find out he's been playing with Vernon Reid
Well, those two should have cleared the room by now...
HTC1
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:55:42 GMT -5
As long as sumgai left the door open, let me drop in something else you may have missed along the way:
NIACIN
John Novello on keyboards, Dennis Chambers on drums and Billy Sheehan on bass. They've been around since 1996 and have 6 albums out. If you like this, the rabbit hole online is there at your disposal.
HTC1
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 9:18:30 GMT -5
Frank Gambale, Alain Caron and Damien Schmitt
Frank Gambale has been someone I've followed since we both had hair. Very deep rabbit hole there... You may remember Alain Caron from a UZEB video I posted somewhere around here. This is one of the few songs where he plays a fretted bass. Damien Schmitt has played with too many people to name, but you might recognize Bireli Lagrene.
Muuahahahaha....
HTC1
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 23, 2023 9:53:50 GMT -5
Prince is certainly a love it or leave it type of musician. I can only agree that he was " Framptonized" by the industry back in the 80's. Remember the immortal words of Hunter S. Thompson... Given a choice, I'll take anything after 1996 when he tossed off the Warner Brothers coil. Once he stopped charting, his music became much more interesting in my mind. If you have time to kill one day, look around for any of his Montreux live shows. I think you'll be surprised. Stage persona. Yeah, there is no shortage of the antics eclipsing the music within the industry...GWAR being the inevitable marker of slightly too far for reason... When you have 40+ albums released over 35 years...on which you play somewhere around 20 different instruments on...to me, there has to be something there to explore and understand...and he certainly proselytized the one better than anyone. The first time I noticed Marcus Miller was when Miles Davis released Tutu back in the mid 80's...where Miller wrote the bulk of the tunes. If you missed it I highly recommend it. Miller revisited the album contents back in the 2000's with a new crop of musicians...also something worth searching out. I admit, I didn't recognize Jamaaladeen Tacuma. I remember when he was Rudy McDaniel playing with Ornette Coleman. (Ornette could be considered an acquired taste if you're unfamiliar with him. I warned you...) I was surprised to find out he's been playing with Vernon Reid Well, those two should have cleared the room by now... HTC1 Not sure which words by Thompson you mean. I know who he is, but I haven't read his work, and I'm not very well-read. Again, I was impressed with Prince's playing on his Madhouse projects. You heard them? I also heard his first demo from the late '70s. A tad sloppy, but I really liked it. Also, that rumor about him playing 20+ different instruments is an aggrandizing exaggeration he likely didn't even start. Most of those different instruments were keyboards. He basically played keys, guitar/bass, and drums-- impressive in itself. Some like his singing, but it's too lacking in authority for my tastes. Maybe it's just more of a textural thing? Again, the spreading too thin made him somewhat mediocre at each thing. I'd prefer one who masters fewer things than one who compromises everything trying to do it all. I also disagree about his guitar playing, even with other guitar players I respect. He really never improvised anything particularly innovative or difficult, but he did do a lot of flashy tricks I don't care for. FI, people say no one can't figure out the intro to When Dove's Cry. It was clear to me that it was sped up. I believe it was sped up a 4th or 5th, and he just bounced a slide off the 12th fret and taped a few frets above after the main riff (which sounds more impressive because it's sped up). That seemed deceptive to me and turned me off, but I tend to be a purist about these things. FI, I don't like "Wire Fu" at all. I'm an old-school 70s Gung-Fu film type. To be even more critical than necessary, the While My Guitar Gently Weeps performance people rave about is mediocre with some flashy hand movements and open-string pull-offs on predictable notes, and it's entirely out-of-context. The assisted lean off the stage was funny, though. I prefer his solid bass playing and drumming, and he was very good on keys. Regarding the stage show: as much as I like Sheila E's percussion work, who thought it was a good idea for her to dance on stage? She really should have looked in a mirror during rehearsal to see what she is doing  . AFAIK, she could just stand there and I'd be happy-- beautiful woman. There was a live video where she and Price shuffled back and forth across the stage for like ~10 minutes. It just looked dumb. Surely they could have choreographed something interesting in advance? His live shows just irritate and bore me at this point. I won't be seeking them out, but I may revisit his Madhouse albums now and then. Some really nice stuff on there. I may well check out that updated Miller album, and I didn't know Tacuma changed his name. I first heard him when I bought his Renaissance Man album right when it came out. Most exhilarating "hyper-funk" I ever heard. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 10:24:19 GMT -5
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
― Hunter S. Thompson He really never improvised anything particularly innovative or difficult, Read anything about what it was like to play for James Brown. Funk is not typically a highly improvised genre...aside from anything George Clinton had a hand in. It's not there to speak to your mind...it's there to move your @ss. Energy versus ethereal. But hey, I never got Clapton... HTC1
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 23, 2023 11:29:13 GMT -5
"...also a negative side."  I get what you mean about the James Brown roots funk, and I do like it. I prefer Sly Stone or E, W & F to Funkadelic, though. Funk came out of hard bop, so it doesn't really have to be basic to be funky. I like how you used "ethereal" rather than cerebral vs energy. I guess energy is the complement of the aether (not the ethereal is derived from aether)? Prince just never really did it for me. After that coworker forced it on us at work I just associate his stuff with being irritated. What can you do? I never was a Clapton fan, either. He's done some impressive stuff, but his anti-immigrant stance and past spousal abuse confirm my distaste. I like those other cats you posted and really dig that Lagrene clip. My tastes are a bit inconsistent. FI, I like ABBA for the vocal harmonies. My present guitar favs are Scott Henderson and Bill Frisell. I also liked Elliot Sharp and the late great Sunny Sharrock a lot. I saw Elliot Sharp on a bitterly cold night at the Knitting Factory in NYC in the late 90's. Not very jazzy, but a unique and controversial artist. Think I'll take a break for now. I may return for more inspiring discourse, later. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 11:52:27 GMT -5
Music is like cigars...that's why there is so much variety.
John Coltrane is a genius on many levels...I loved him with Miles, but I just can't get into his solo stuff. I know the issue is me. It's what speaks to you. These are the two that opened the door for me.
Thank you, Yvonne Daniels and WSDM-FM\Chicago. Que tu Dios los acompañe a los dos
HTC1
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 16:03:16 GMT -5
I first heard him when I bought his Renaissance Man album right when it came out. I missed that one when it came out. I found it and listened to it today. I liked Dancing in Your Head...David Murray tears it up. The Battle of Images was interesting. Thanks for the heads up. HTC1 |
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Post by sumgai on Jan 23, 2023 16:22:21 GMT -5
Ok, Ok, we're now steep into bass players, I get it. Mea culpa, I started it, so I'll take the heat. But so far, it's been all history, and not a word about the future. Some of you may have seen/heard of this one, but for those still ignorant of her, you need to check out EllenPlaysBass. Yeah, yeah, she's only 10 years old now, but she started almost two years ago. So what's the big deal? Well, after that short of a 'learning curve', this happened: Now, my prediction: In about 10 years, it'll be Ellen who's inviting Steve Vai to come play on stage with her!! sumgai |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 23, 2023 16:48:08 GMT -5
Ok, Ok, we're now steep into bass players, I get it. Mea culpa, I started it, so I'll take the heat. Oh, you wanted guitar players...well, ok then. The AristocratsYou might have recognized the drummer, Marco Minnemann and bass player, Bryan Beller playing with Joe Satriani or Steve Vai. The shaggy guy can only be Guthrie Govan. I almost caught these guys in Portland...almost... That better? HTC1 |
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 24, 2023 3:02:12 GMT -5
I first heard him when I bought his Renaissance Man album right when it came out. I missed that one when it came out. I found it and listened to it today. I liked Dancing in Your Head...David Murray tears it up. The Battle of Images was interesting. Thanks for the heads up. HTC1 I'm just listening to it now. Haven't heard it for ~30 years. I forgot how much it meant to me during that period of my life. Funny that I was just complaining about artists spreading themselves too thin, and I immediately recommend an album called Renaissance Man (presumably in reference to Paul Robson), who was a multifaceted artist. Certainly, there are examples of those who excel at several things, but there's only so much time in a day. BTW, Juna Serita's band is awesome. Seriously solid funksters and like many guitar players from my time, Iron Man was the first song I learned. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 24, 2023 8:12:57 GMT -5
I love these guys. I forgot where I heard them first, but they got a hook into me quickly.
Esbjörn Svensson Trio
They put out close to 20 albums and were together for 15 years until Svensson died in a scuba accident. Magnus Öström and Dan Berglund are still alive and playing with various projects.
Enjoy
HTC1
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Post by sumgai on Jan 24, 2023 12:48:44 GMT -5
Good, we're starting to spread out a bit, that's good. My intent was/is to show how much of a couch potato I've become in my waning years, but I've taken a cue from an early 'internet influencer" who's now influencing a non-mortal coil. Therein, he posited that the web was entirely too full of 'corporate' rock 'n' roll, and endeavored to expose alternate genres to those who had no further insight than the bog standard 12-bar arrangement. In that light, I'm going to post something every Sunday for the next several weeks, and "leave the door open" for further exploration.... without rules. I've already got a small roster of soon-to-be illuminated artists, so stay tuned. Who knows, we all might actually learn something - wouldn't that be a gas!  And it most definitely would not hurt my feelings if other members started doing something similar. Hint, hint..... sumgai p.s. A big thanks to pyrroz for the idea, as revealed in his Monsters of the 70's thread. |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 24, 2023 13:12:50 GMT -5
Hey I remember Frank Cambale from his videos in the mid 80s, if you wanted to learn some decent guitar those videos were your only chance back then! He also played an Ibanez RG which seemed ... encouraging!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 24, 2023 13:36:52 GMT -5
Hey I remember Frank Cambale from his videos in the mid 80s... Yeah, back when he and I both had hair... Those are still all over YouTube. He has a deal with Carvin now. Pretty guitar. He is an amazing player...sounds like a video segue... HTC1 |
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 24, 2023 23:20:24 GMT -5
...and we're back to bass. This came up in my YT feed and I couldn't pass it up for numerous reasons. I know it's funded by a big gear distributor, but Ms. Hofer is a star. Steely Dan is one of the "bands" I grew up on. It's not very "punk" for sure, but it's part of my DNA. The songs are well-constructed and these bass lines are to die for:
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 6:32:42 GMT -5
I don't know why this guy didn't come up sooner. This man was an amazing player who died way too soon. This accounts for the less than HD experience in his videos... Shawn LaneYeah, he was fast, but he could play with feeling as well. This what he wrote when his sister passed away. This is an amazing song. Towards the end of his life he worked with bassist Jonas Hellborg. These are the bulk of recordings that survive him. He had dealt with psoriatic arthritis since he was a kid and the drugs used to treat it caused his extreme weight gain. Hard to believe, but this September he'll be gone 20 years. If you liked this, let me hip you to his solo albums: 1992: Powers of Ten
1999: The Tri-Tone Fascination
2001: Powers of Ten; Live! Que tu Dios te acompañe HTC1 |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 6:53:34 GMT -5
Steely Dan is one of the "bands" I grew up on. It's not very "punk" for sure, but it's part of my DNA. Well, you did it...I had to pull up Aja this morning. I'm with you, I am an unashamed fan of these guys. They were likely the seed that grew into a jazz obsession. They write some of the best lyrics, but the telling part for me is that you can play any of them sans lyrics and they work. I'm also a sucker for Fagan's solo albums. As you may have noticed, I follow musicians, not bands. Over the years Steely Dan was a card catalog of 1st tier musicians to follow down the rabbit hole... HTC1 |
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Post by newey on Jan 25, 2023 11:08:01 GMT -5
I'm also a sucker for Fagan's solo albums. "The Nightfly" is great. Back in the 1970's, I was sort of lukewarm on Steely Dan. Liked some of their stuff, didn't own any of their albums. Then in about 2002 or so, I went down that rabbit hole, bought up all their stuff on CD. Then I saw them live about 6-7 years ago, shortly before Becker died. I had always thought of Becker as the bass player (and a good one). I was surprised that, live, he only played bass on a couple of tunes, the rest of the show he was playing a Strat. Learned that, after the first few albums, he was doing a lot of their guitar work. Aja and Gaucho, the later stuff, is more jazz-oriented but also more cocaine-fueled, sounds like a lot of late nights in the studio with some tracks just getting tossed together. As my dear departed grandmother used to say, "Nothing good ever happens after 2 a.m.". Countdown to Ecstasy and The Royal Scam are my 2 favorites. I've also always wondered whether William S. Burroughs ever signed off on their name. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 11:15:50 GMT -5
I've also always wondered whether William S. Burroughs ever signed off on their name. He was a Beat writer...he couldn't afford an attorney... HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 25, 2023 14:40:09 GMT -5
I don't know why this guy didn't come up sooner. This man was an amazing player who died way too soon. This accounts for the less than HD experience in his videos... Shawn LaneYeah, he was fast, but he could play with feeling as well. This what he wrote when his sister passed away. This is an amazing song. Towards the end of his life he worked with bassist Jonas Hellborg. These are the bulk of recordings that survive him. He had dealt with psoriatic arthritis since he was a kid and the drugs used to treat it caused his extreme weight gain. Hard to believe, but this September he'll be gone 20 years. If you liked this, let me hip you to his solo albums: 1992: Powers of Ten
1999: The Tri-Tone Fascination
2001: Powers of Ten; Live! Que tu Dios te acompañe HTC1
You got me into Shawn Lane, and he is a truly inspirational guitarist. I am so puzzled why I have not researched him thoroughly yet. Most guitarists could make a minor scale sound happy or silly. Shawn Lane could make a major scale sound sad.
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Post by b4nj0 on Jan 25, 2023 15:06:31 GMT -5
Shawn Lane is a new one on me and a real keeper. I'd heard the name but that's it. Thanks for this C1. Happy Trails indeed.
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 15:10:51 GMT -5
my dear departed grandmother used to say, "Nothing good ever happens after 2 a.m. I guess that's why we never saw her around... HTC1 |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 15:15:16 GMT -5
You are entirely welcome. Enjoy. Tell a friend. HTC1 |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 25, 2023 21:09:30 GMT -5
I'm gonna steer this down a dark alley for a moment. As I said, I follow musicians. When I see collaborations I'm all over anyone on the list...going under the premise that the group is stronger than the individual. I always enjoy seeing how musicians influence each other in a session. That being said, what would you call a band with Bootsy Collins, Bernie Worrell, Brain (Bryan Kei Mantia) and Buckethead? Here's one from 30 years ago you might have missed.
PRAXIS
Certainly not for everyone, but no one else really sounds like them. The first album Transmutation was....interesting.
That was the single...the rest of the album is more like this:
Sorry, was listening to them this morning and thought I'd share.
I'll go back down my hole now...
HTC1
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darrenvox
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 34 
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Post by darrenvox on Jan 26, 2023 18:43:55 GMT -5
so cool and fun at the same time
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