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Post by gumbo on Jun 22, 2006 6:40:10 GMT -5
Evening all... I am currently playing with (yet another!) variation-on-a-theme in my quest for building in a Roland GK2A synth pickup. This idea involves fitting the pickup bar in the reverse position to that originally intended to get around that pesky cable just where you don't want it under your hand. Since I am tearing the whole original Roland wart to bits and putting the pcb in the (strat) cavity and remoting the controls, it occurred to me that, rather than mess with that miniature strip-connector on the end of the pickup bar cable, I could just alter the wiring where it connects to the 13-pin mini-Din I am fitting to the edge of the guiatr's body....that way the signal for the appropriate string would still end up on the correct path into the (GR30) synth. The wiring diagram I have for the GK2A pcb seems to show the same components for each string's pre-amp, so I figure this might just work. If you have followed all this so far, you obviously understand what I am getting at and/or have asked yourself the same question in the past..... ...Sooooo, if you can see any holes in my thinking, I'd sure like to hear from you.. ......regards from sunny SouthOz where it got to -6C the other morning.....
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 22, 2006 12:23:04 GMT -5
I am currently playing with (yet another!) variation-on-a-theme in my quest for building in a Roland GK2A synth pickup. This idea involves fitting the pickup bar in the reverse position to that originally intended to get around that pesky cable just where you don't want it under your hand. ...Sooooo, if you can see any holes in my thinking, I'd sure like to hear from you.. First, cool screen-name. Second, real quick, do yourself a huge favor by saving yourself a lot of time and headache by getting a GraphTech GHOST Modular Pickup System, which does piezo-acoustic and MIDI. The pickup elements are in the bridge, so you don't have to squeeze in any bar hex pickups, nor do you have any pesky cables and wires floating about the front of your guitar. Incidentally, the circuit board is much smaller, and yet does twice as much, as the roland pcb, and it is specifically designed to be internally mounted. Not only that, but being that the system is modular, it's designed to just pop together, with little microheaders on each of the components, that just plug onto the pcb. It couldn't be easier. Just something to consider. Chesh
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 22, 2006 17:25:55 GMT -5
Roland does make an internal GK2/3 pickup kit.
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 22, 2006 18:06:09 GMT -5
Roland does make an internal GK2/3 pickup kit. Yes and no. The guts are internal, but the pickup is external . . . and you don't get the possibility of piezo with it. Also, afaik, you can only use it with Roland products. GT's Modular system works with more than just Roland. Also, if I am correct, the Roland internal system (which, incidentally, I also looked into as well when researching this for my Utah) needs to have a space routed out for the hex pickup, especially if it's the one with the white pickup cover, like you see on the Roland Ready Strat. While I would be happy to rout out whatever was necessary, Gumbo might not want to rout that much, and to that end the GHOST system can fit into a pre-existing control cavity. I would probably be a tight fit, but it's doable. Chesh
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Post by gumbo on Jun 23, 2006 7:54:19 GMT -5
Thank you Gentlemen, for your informed thoughts...most appreciated. ...yep, I do know all about that stuff from GraphTech, and yes, I wish I could justify the expense.....I had put that option down as a 'maybe later' one...the problem we have down here North of the South Pole, is that by the time we go legal on freight, import duty and GST (Goods and Services Tax- 10%), then cope with the appalling currency conversion rate where (today) AUD 1.00 buys USD 0.73....things get mighty expensive....couple this with the (local) retail price of the internal kit of almost AUD 400, and the fact that I already own two of the warts.........maybe you see where I am coming from.....:-( The other problem is that I am an incessant tinkerer......:-) ....I have been researching this one for a while, and am actually planning a few mods from the standard "Roland Ready" configuration as well. ...I've got quite a lot of info together over the past year, and would like to give this a go....perhaps I'm being a bit persistant, but I'd just like to see if all my ideas will actually work. I've sorted out a few thoughts as to quite minimal routing (in conjunction with a few other things!) and don't consider that to be a great problem (have Dremel, will rout)....... I repeat however, I still think I will one day probably build a GraphTech one when life's little monetary speed bumps sort themselves out, because I do think they HAVE got the whole thing nailed...
So, Chesh, do you think I can reverse the wires at the 13-pin, or do I have to swap them before they hit the pre-amps???....................:-)
....it was warmer last night, but then we got fogged in instead..........!
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 23, 2006 11:04:16 GMT -5
So, Chesh, do you think I can reverse the wires at the 13-pin, or do I have to swap them before they hit the pre-amps???....................:-) Well, remember, anything is possible . . . except getting Roland to honor the warantee after you radically jack with the circuitry, and all for what!?! Having a rather ugly eyesore of a contraption on the face of your guitar, like a boil to be lanced!?! If it's Roland or Bust, then get the internal kit. Routing for the electronics is simple enough, and routing for the extra space for the hex pickup will be a lot easier than trying to jack with the pcb. Not only that, but I think the pickup cover can come off with some work, and the pickup itself is rather shallow (ergo, the surface mounting) so you wouldn't have to rout for the pickup itself, but simply surface mount it, and then run the cable straight into the body. If you have a strat/tele style top rout and mounting pickguard, then that's a no brainer, simply drilling a hole in the pickguard to run the cable into. Now, if you just have this insatiable yen to rip into a pcb, then I'd say go all the way and actually create your own pcb with the new orienation. I believe that Roland has a schematic for that. I got one years ago, but have since misplaced it. Either way, you can make this very interesting indeed. Also, I don't know if you were aware of this, but pad2pad.com does custom smt pcb's, so if you decide to do several different projects such as preamps and what not, you could amalgamate them together into one project to save money. That would be the ultimate tinkering project. So, those are some possibilities. As to the specifics of your original question, can you reverse the leads from each of the hexes, so, iow, instead of jacking with the 13 pins, you'd probably just want to flip the one E for the other, the A for the B, and the D for the G; or, put another way, flip the microheader from the hex pickup over so that it reads reversed. It may not be possible with the shape of the microheader and how it inserts, but that's where the tinkering comes in. Still, I think it's a moot point if the only purpose of this is the get the cable out of the way on what is, I consider, a total eyesore and an intrusive annoyance. If you're serious about this, go internal. Chesh
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Post by sumgai on Jun 24, 2006 13:49:11 GMT -5
gumbo, Quick, while both of my brain cells are firing at the same time..... Since you're gonna stick the whole shebang inside the ax anyways..... the cable is plenty long enough to mount the pickup in what Roland thinks is the correct orientation, but now, it'll be running under the scratchplate, not outside and under your arm. Leave well enough alone, and no worries, mate! Oh, and no, the GK pickup is not limited to Roland products only, it'll work with anything that accepts 13-pin input, like Axon, Yamaha, Boss, etc. Just ask, and maybe one of us will be happy to act as a "friend in the US" who's just sold you his nudge-nudge-wink-wink "used" GHOST system. ;D More to say, wish I could stick around, sorry. sumgai
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Post by gumbo on Jun 25, 2006 7:17:47 GMT -5
Hi Chesh, Sumgai... thanks again for all of that....yes, my plan was to mount the whole shebang inside, that is internally mounted, with only (similar to 'roland-ready') sort of controls fixed to the pickguard. It was that, just looking at things and taking a few "strat"egic measurements, I thought I could cut myself a little more slack by easing the cable down under the pickguard next to the non-business side of the volume knob....the pickup that comes with the wart doesn't really look like it would take too kindly to the cable being bent rapidly downwards, and I didn't want to inadvertantly hack at the end of it with a pick, or sacrifice the feeling of string muting at the bridge.......so that's what really started this thread. ....but then, I DID say I was a tinkerer...:-)
....and yes, Sumgai, I would like to talk more too....PM you somewhere along the line....
Regards to all Gumbo
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 25, 2006 12:21:58 GMT -5
thanks again for all of that....yes, my plan was to mount the whole shebang inside, that is internally mounted, with only (similar to 'roland-ready') sort of controls fixed to the pickguard. It was that, just looking at things and taking a few "strat"egic measurements, I thought I could cut myself a little more slack by easing the cable down under the pickguard next to the non-business side of the volume knob....the pickup that comes with the wart doesn't really look like it would take too kindly to the cable being bent rapidly downwards, and I didn't want to inadvertantly hack at the end of it with a pick, or sacrifice the feeling of string muting at the bridge.......so that's what really started this thread. ....but then, I DID say I was a tinkerer...:-) Do you currently have the kit?
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Post by gumbo on Jun 26, 2006 1:46:40 GMT -5
well, I have two of the gk2a warts....but no 'internal kit'(GK-KIT-GT).......so that's really the reason to use up some of these components, rather than go out and spend more AU$...plus I kind of like some of the remote controls that I have sourced, rather than those supplied with the internal kit. I also take your point about the microheader, but it is 'handed' (keyed?), and instead of ripping it to bits or partly destroying it to remove the 'keying', I thought an easy way of dealing with the problem might be to alter the wiring after the pre-amps, 'coz I'm having to build a custom lead from the pcb-mounted 13-pin to the one that I'm mounting in the edge of the guitar below the normal jack....seemed to be the ideal point to start flipping wires around if it would work....... I do have the schematic of the wart, BTW....Roland in Oz were quite helpful, in contrast to some people's past experiences!..let me know if you ever want a copy .... Regards Gumbo
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 26, 2006 3:16:33 GMT -5
well, I have two of the gk2a warts....but no 'internal kit'(GK-KIT-GT).......so that's really the reason to use up some of these components, rather than go out and spend more AU$...plus I kind of like some of the remote controls that I have sourced, rather than those supplied with the internal kit. I also take your point about the microheader, but it is 'handed' (keyed?), and instead of ripping it to bits or partly destroying it to remove the 'keying', I thought an easy way of dealing with the problem might be to alter the wiring after the pre-amps, 'coz I'm having to build a custom lead from the pcb-mounted 13-pin to the one that I'm mounting in the edge of the guitar below the normal jack....seemed to be the ideal point to start flipping wires around if it would work....... I do have the schematic of the wart, BTW....Roland in Oz were quite helpful, in contrast to some people's past experiences!..let me know if you ever want a copy .... Regards Gumbo Any pics or diagrams? I'm still trying to track all this. Also, "warts"?
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Post by gumbo on Jun 26, 2006 8:50:38 GMT -5
OK...I have two (2) Roland GK2A externally mounted pickups (sometimes called a "wart", because of it's desirability level on the face of a guitar)........these are the things that came out in the first place (well, almost) that were intended to be stuck/screwed onto the face of the guitar body, with a badly-placed connecting cable between the pickup bar and the rest of the (pre-amp & controls) assembly........
Subsequent to this, Roland made a version (the GK-KIT-GT) where you got all the components as individual items so you could build the whole mess into (the cavity of) your guitar...............I do not have one of those....
At the same time, Fender (and some others as well) were factory-fitting (the basis of) these "kit" versions into guitars that were (mostly) known as "Roland Ready" models...............I do not have one of these........
At the same time (as well) privateers were fitting the aforesaid kits into stock guitars and selling them as (sort of) equivalent "Roland Ready" guitars....hoping to make a killing from being able to undercut the factory-fitted models....I don't have any of these either......
Having read all about this for some time, and having looked at all sorts of stuff all over the net, I decided that I could follow some other clever people's lead and actually modify the (external) GK2A so that it could be fitted internally....I also figured I could do a few mods on other people's ideas and overcome some of the problems they were confronted/left with, while re-arranging the controls to suit my own particular tastes......
.....maybe I should have started this thread with this email.......sorry if it has become confused along the way...perhaps because I seem to have been immersed in this for such a long time, I figured everyone would understand what I was on about and didn't do a good enough job of explaning myself in the first place......this sometimes happens when you get to 58..............:-)
I can probably get some graphics up, but not for a few days, as most images are hard copy and work will take me away from the required facilities (the scanner at University, for one!)
Hope this all now makes a bit more sense......No offence meant... Gumbo
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 26, 2006 14:21:13 GMT -5
OK...I have two (2) Roland GK2A externally mounted pickups (sometimes called a "wart", because of it's desirability level on the face of a guitar)........these are the things that came out in the first place (well, almost) that were intended to be stuck/screwed onto the face of the guitar body, with a badly-placed connecting cable between the pickup bar and the rest of the (pre-amp & controls) assembly........ Subsequent to this, Roland made a version (the GK-KIT-GT) where you got all the components as individual items so you could build the whole mess into (the cavity of) your guitar...............I do not have one of those.... At the same time, Fender (and some others as well) were factory-fitting (the basis of) these "kit" versions into guitars that were (mostly) known as "Roland Ready" models...............I do not have one of these........ At the same time (as well) privateers were fitting the aforesaid kits into stock guitars and selling them as (sort of) equivalent "Roland Ready" guitars....hoping to make a killing from being able to undercut the factory-fitted models....I don't have any of these either...... Having read all about this for some time, and having looked at all sorts of stuff all over the net, I decided that I could follow some other clever people's lead and actually modify the (external) GK2A so that it could be fitted internally....I also figured I could do a few mods on other people's ideas and overcome some of the problems they were confronted/left with, while re-arranging the controls to suit my own particular tastes...... .....maybe I should have started this thread with this email.......sorry if it has become confused along the way...perhaps because I seem to have been immersed in this for such a long time, I figured everyone would understand what I was on about and didn't do a good enough job of explaning myself in the first place......this sometimes happens when you get to 58..............:-) I can probably get some graphics up, but not for a few days, as most images are hard copy and work will take me away from the required facilities (the scanner at University, for one!) Hope this all now makes a bit more sense......No offence meant... Gumbo Alright, that makes a lot more sense, and, btw, no offense taken, nor thought of. (What could have been taken as "offensive"? ) Okay, it seems to me that the big thing in reversing the leads, either on the "microheader" (whatever) side or on the preamp side is whether or not you can get the cable to work properly. That would be the first thing. If I were you I'd want to save your tinkering brain cells for more important matters. believe me when I say, as a fellow tinkerer, it's best to pick your battles. Do you possibly have access to a digital camera where we could see what you are working with at the moment? Assuming that that isn't one of the hard copy pieces you are looking to scan in a few days? Chesh
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Post by gumbo on Jun 26, 2006 18:26:51 GMT -5
Thanks, Chesh....I'll see what I can do...might still be a few days as my second job and this weekend's gigs have taken over....talk soon..:-)
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Post by sumgai on Jun 27, 2006 15:38:09 GMT -5
...... the pickup that comes with the wart doesn't really look like it would take too kindly to the cable being bent rapidly downwards, and I didn't want to inadvertantly hack at the end of it with a pick, or sacrifice the feeling of string muting at the bridge.......so that's what really started this thread.
Looky here: Notice how I routed the cable back at a sharp 180°, under the saddles, and out to the wart? No problems for nearly a year. I got the idea elsewhere, so I know it can be done safely. ....and yes, Sumgai, I would like to talk more too....PM you somewhere along the line.... Awaiting your PM. sumgai p.s. My first-born grandson, at 4 1/2 years of age, already able to play several chords, in reasonably good time! Sings too..... d@mned little bugger!
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Post by sumgai on Jun 27, 2006 15:45:24 GMT -5
Chesh, Does this help you any? Took it for my eBay auction a couple of years ago. That's not two cables running from the pup to the wart, the single cable is casting a shadow - sorry if it's confusing to the eye. sumgai
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Post by sumgai on Jun 27, 2006 15:57:41 GMT -5
gumbo,
in re: flipping pins in the 13-pin jack.....
No, I'd do like Chesh suggests, and work on the micro-header first. After all, you did say that you're building a custom cable for internal use anyway, so just pay attention to the color codes, and their placement on the pcb, and you should be good to go. Outside of that custom cable though, I'd make sure that I really, really wanted the reversed scheme, and then I'd go ahead and cut pcb traces and solder in jumper wires as needed.
But let me ask you this...... What do you have, a GR series synth, or a VG series modeler? You do know that the VG toys can be programmed to work "backwards", don't you? Sadly, the GR units can't, they need to be physically re-oriented. This might make a difference in your projected work load. ;D
I think we can come to some kind of equitable arrangement here. Now I'm really awaiting your PM! ;D
sumgai
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Jun 27, 2006 18:26:13 GMT -5
p.s. My first-born grandson, at 4 1/2 years of age, already able to play several chords, in reasonably good time! Sings too..... d@mned little bugger!I foresee a day when you're going to have to ask him if you can "borrow that back" occasionally.
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Post by gumbo on Jun 29, 2006 5:56:46 GMT -5
Yep, unfortunately (!) it's a GR30....bought it some years back in an un-repeatable deal....put it to one side for some time until my life opened up enough to start fiddling about at a rate and level that I would find satisfying.....now that I no-longer run my own retail business, there are (just a few!) more hours in the day.
To be slightly more specific about my comments about the custom cable....having read what others on the net had said about the difficulty and potential hazards of trying to de-solder the pcb-mounted 13-pin socket from the wart, I thought that I would (a) leave it in place and plug pins into it that were cannibalised from another 13-pin plug, (b) solder those pins to a (round) multi-core cable that I have stolen from a computer, (c) connect the conductors (cores) of the other end of that cable to the back of a (home-made) surface-mount 13-pin socket that I'm installing in the lower edge of the strat body, below the normal 1/4" jack socket. Given that I have the opportunity to connect the cores of that cable in any way that I want (by simply choosing how I plug the pins into the original pcb-mounted 13-pin on the wart)...I figured that this would be the easiest way to muck around with this......presuming I could get away with such a modification at this point in the chain of events.....
The other things that come out of all this are that I am endeavouring to (a) keep the messing around with the wart pcb to a minimum (so that I don't inadvertantly overheat something in the process), and (b) come up with a way of connecting all 13 pins to the edge of the guitar without too much wierd routing for flat ribbon cables, lumpy connectors, and a 13-pin socket rout that had to be big enough to cope with (effectively) what was originally intended to be a pcb-mounted socket! I figured my version could be installed with a hole that only needed to be big enough for the moulded plastic socket-body itself, and since my cable and its (individual) pin-connectors could all fit within that size, drilling through into the original 1/4" jack rout would be a breeze. Also, my design all installs from the outside edge, just feed the cable (and its pins) through a few strategically drilled holes, then secure the surface-mount plate with a couple of screws to the (prepared) edge of the guitar, opening out the outer edge of the rout just slightly (to the outline of the mounting plate) to get a nice flush mount..... Internally bridge from the 1/4" jack to the 1/8" jack on the wart, set the wart input selestor switch to "both", then control SP PUP's vs synth by the guitar's original vol pot and a (remoted) 50k pot for the wart...balancing / cutting as required..... Remote the two SW1 and SW2 buttons from the wart to two reasonable-looking Tandy (Radio Shack!) surface-mount press-button momentary switches fixed to the pickguard........forget about needing to have an LED to tell you that the power is switched on, and that's about it................apart from burying the wart in the guitar, that is...:-)
That's my bit for now...gotta go to work....
Gumbo
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Post by sumgai on Jun 30, 2006 3:52:52 GMT -5
gumgo, Hey, nuttin' wrong with that. I've got a GR-33, and a VG-88, v2. Yeppers, been done. Feller that did it (from Denmark) posted some photos of his work on a site that's now long gone. Knew I shoulda copped those pages to my own hard drive, just for this kind of reference work. Sorry, but I don't believe there's anything else out there that shows what you've described. It'll work, though, I see it in my mind's eye, so go for it, if you so choose. sumgai
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Post by sumgai on Jun 30, 2006 3:57:47 GMT -5
Doug, Uh uh. I showed him graphic proof of what would happen if he tried to put the arm on it: Mine, all mine! ;D sumgai p.s. Knew you'd like that, fellow cat lover! (Modified simply to re-locate above image to a new server - Aug 23, 06)
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