dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 4, 2006 0:32:46 GMT -5
ok i just started with the measurements.....well i am a bit lost but i'll try googling to figure out how to do the first set of blue instructions before i do that here is what i've done today...first of all i've measured the resistance for the PuPs....guitar was unplugged... Neck Humbucker: 14.68 Middle Single Coil: 6.4 Bridge Humbucker: 15.98 they are real hot....i wonder if i'm going to be Really disappointed with the Ibanez pickups if that rating indicates anything here is the current wiring diagram
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 5, 2006 11:15:34 GMT -5
...i wonder if i'm going to be Really disappointed with the Ibanez pickups if that rating indicates anything .... that's hard to say. if the pickups you've been using are wound with a smaller gauge wire, that will account for some of the increase in resistance without any increase in # of turns. but i suspect there is also a greater number of turns on them as well. so best guess is, the AHs will be milder than what you have been using. on the up side, they can be split. i think using an even number of coils will be better in terms of hum-cancelling. since you will be using lots of gain, hum-canceling will probably be an important factor. unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 6, 2006 9:07:04 GMT -5
here are these measurements you will want to measure between the coils that are on the guitar right now. use the center of the pole-pieces. measure from the middle to the nearest neck coil. ...... 30mmmeasure from the middle to the farthest neck coil. ...... 48mmmeasure from the middle to the nearest bridge coil. ...... 34mmmeasure from the middle to the farthest bridge coil. ...... 52mmwrite these measurements down.
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 6, 2006 9:22:04 GMT -5
6 -- magnetic polarity is important for hum cancellation. if we have 2 coils that are in phase for string sensing, but of opposite magnetic polarity, the external hum that strikes those coils will cancel. if we have 2 coils that are OoP for string sensing, but of the same magnetic polarity, the hum will also cancel. we won't be doing OoP on your guitar. to determine the polarity we need a small magnet, or a single coil pickup out of a guitar. instead of worrying about north and south, all we need to be concerned with it same or different. if we put the magnet (or a single coil pickup) on the front of your middle pickup, it will want to stick to the pickup's pole-pieces in one direction. if we flip the magnet over, it will push away from the pickup. mark the magnet when it is stuck to the front of your middle pickup so you can recognize the orientation. we'll call this polarity A.
then use the same magnet on your HBs. write down the polarities for the flat slugs and for the slugs with the holes. the holes and the flats should be opposite one should be A and one should be B. the holes on the AH1 will probably be the same as the holes on the AH2. but this is not certain. test it and write down the results. i marked polarity A on a small magnet after the single coil pickup test i also tested polarity A side on the DiMarzio pickups and BOTH pickup have polarity A on the pickup magnets with holes on them >>> refer to first post for image of the dimarzio pickups in terms of existing HBs...the polarity A was with neck HB coil closer to middle single coil and for the brindge HB it was the opposite....hence the coil further away from middle SC had polarity A
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 6, 2006 9:27:37 GMT -5
the "screwdriver pull-off test"
if you connect a DC voltmeter to a pickup, you can determine the polarity of the pulse that is created when you pull the blade of a screwdriver that is stuck to the pole-piece away from it.
your meter should be set to 200 mV (200 mili-volts) the pulse should be about 100mv, but that is not important. what is important is: is it a positive voltage or a negative voltage.
in these tests, always connect the black probe (COM) of the meter to the bare wire or ground.
if the middle pickup in your guitar is still connected, we can still test it.
connect the black from the meter to the sleeve of your guitar cord.
connect the red from the meter to the tip of the guitar cord.
with the volume and tone on 10, and the selector switch in 3, measure the DC voltage when you pull the screwdriver blade away.
write down if this is positive or negative.
also write down the color of the wire going to lug 2 of selector switch.
and the color of the wire(s) from the middle pickup that connect to ground points like the frame of the selector, or lug 1 of the volume control.
next the AHs:
connect the black of the meter to the bare wire of the pickup.
connect the red of the meter to the white of the pickup.
is the voltage positive or negative when the screwdriver blade is pulled away?
which coil is between the red and bare:
connect the black of the meter to the bare of the pickup.
connect the red of the meter to the red of the pickup.
when you pull the blade of the screwdriver away from the pole-pieces, you will find that either the holes or the flats produce a voltage that is almost the same as when we we connected to the white wire. and the other one will produce nothing, or perhaps a very small voltage.
which one produces a large voltage, holes or flats?well that should be a bit of work to do. but getting it right, is what separates the GuitarNutZ from the wannabees. i'll be signing off for the weekend soon, so if you need more info, one of the other maniacs will be able to help you. i'll take a look at the results from your tests next week and we will decide on the best configuration for your guitar. unk it's late here so i'm out of time to do this test? what do i need to do this test....what importance does it have in terms of what i want to do?
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 6, 2006 9:57:02 GMT -5
since a strat has a distance of about 57~60 mm between pickups, we'll use an outer coil (if we can) when pairing up with the middle.
since you determined that the "holes" have the same mangnetic polarity as the middle we will definitely want to use a coil with "flats" when pairing with the middle.
now, which connection on the red wire (to ground, or to hot) will get us the "flats"?
that's one of the things the last test will tell us.
also it will tell us the phase of the middle pickup, relative to the AHs.
the test is actually very easy. my description is just wordy.
unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 10, 2006 6:41:04 GMT -5
ok i've done the screwdriver pull off test and i did not see negative values on any of the pickups .....so it seems they are all positive whatever that means....and you were right once i actually read what you described i realised how damn easy that was to do lol
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 12, 2006 9:09:18 GMT -5
so, is it the coil with the "holes" or the one with the "flats" that produces a voltage when the meter is connected between the bare and the red?
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 12, 2006 20:53:32 GMT -5
so, is it the coil with the "holes" or the one with the "flats" that produces a voltage when the meter is connected between the bare and the red? hmmmm i have to check that again i think both ???but maybe didn't do it properly
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 13, 2006 6:31:36 GMT -5
i'm a bit confused
i just did it again and i connect the COM(black) DMM to bare wire and RED DMM to white pickup wire and i get a value 01.0................the reading is constant and it is exactly the same no matter which coil i put the screwdriver on and pull it off...............and no minues signs that i can see........am i doing something wrong here or what
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 13, 2006 11:59:32 GMT -5
a few tips here:
1 -- when doing this test, the meter MUST be on DC volts, (not AC)
2 -- the screwdriver must be made of a magnetic material (most are). it will be obvious if it's the right material, because it will "stick" to the pole-pieces.
3 -- the screwdriver should be almost flat across the face of the pickup. the tip stuck to the pole-piece, the shaft just above the coil. then pull the tip upward.
4 -- to avoid inducing a current into both coils, and confusing the results, make sure the shaft of the screwdriver is above the coil in the portion that is furthest away from the other coil.
unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 13, 2006 21:18:18 GMT -5
a few tips here: 1 -- when doing this test, the meter MUST be on DC volts, (not AC) sorry i'm a total n00b....how do i go about finding that out or doing that properly2 -- the screwdriver must be made of a magnetic material (most are). it will be obvious if it's the right material, because it will "stick" to the pole-pieces. 3 -- the screwdriver should be almost flat across the face of the pickup. the tip stuck to the pole-piece, the shaft just above the coil. then pull the tip upward. 4 -- to avoid inducing a current into both coils, and confusing the results, make sure the shaft of the screwdriver is above the coil in the portion that is furthest away from the other coil. how does a screwdriver sit flat across the face of the pickup if you want it to be above the coil...kinda lost me there........all my magnetic screwdrivers are for philips screw so do i just hold it vertical or horizontal when touching the coil magnetunk
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 14, 2006 11:37:57 GMT -5
...how does a screwdriver sit flat across the face of the pickup if you want it to be above the coil...kinda lost me there........all my magnetic screwdrivers are for philips screw so do i just hold it vertical or horizontal when touching the coil magnet.... first, it doesn't have to be a magnetized screwdriver (in fact, that might be a BAD thing). it needs to be made of a material that is attracted by a magnet. flat across the face? picture............thousand word........yadda, yadda, yadda.... green is good. red...............not-so-good.
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 14, 2006 19:44:34 GMT -5
i did that with the screwdriver with magnetised and nonmagnetised surface however i was not pulling up but rather on a side away from the pickup.....i know what you're getting at with the drawings and i definately did try to stay away from the second coil magnets when measuring one side
so the results are as i described them above
one other thing i'm not sure is the AC and DC power comment you made and whether that made any difference
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 15, 2006 9:15:49 GMT -5
...one other thing i'm not sure is the AC and DC power comment you made and whether that made any difference dinos22, it's not DC power, it's the DC voltage scale that needs to be selected on the meter. if you look in the area on the right side of the range switch, you will see settings indicated by blue triangles the top-most one is 200 milivolts DC. that's the setting you want. the settings with the red triangles, below, are AC voltages (indicated by V~ ). you do not want those, for this test.
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 15, 2006 19:12:55 GMT -5
so that is one click to the right from the way it's currently showing on that photo right?
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 16, 2006 12:21:40 GMT -5
yes.
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 16, 2006 20:15:55 GMT -5
don't know if my DMM is crap or if these readings are ok when i connect Black Lead to ground and Red lead to white wire i get a zero value from memory and a BLINKING negative sign....comes on and off...............same on both modules now when i do the screwdriver thing the value briefly jumps to whatever value without negative signs on both pickups and both coils and then after a few seconds it goes back to blinking negative value
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 17, 2006 7:53:17 GMT -5
i just did it with the AHs and the value is positive.....it slightly jumps up and stays positive
do i need to do it for single coil as well
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 19, 2006 11:11:16 GMT -5
don't be concerned with the negative sign blinking on and off.
with no signal, sometimes the noise makes the meter read slightly negative, sometimes slightly positive.
i am a bit puzzled that you can't see a relationship between one coil, and the connection between red and bare.
i would have expected that would result in one coil producing a reasonable voltage, and the other coil producing almost nothing.
you will want to do the same test on the single coil, to determine which wire needs to be grounded.
it would seem that since you are getting positive readings from both the original HBs, and the AHs, that the middle would presently be wired with the polarity, but it never hurts to double check.
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 19, 2006 16:57:27 GMT -5
noworries will check the middle coil tonite
current grounding is a bit strange as you can see from my diagram heheh
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 22, 2006 8:24:17 GMT -5
ok the middle one gives a negative value
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 22, 2006 17:26:57 GMT -5
Dinos22,
i haven't forgotten about you.
i'll review what we know so far, and come up with a plan for you.
unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 22, 2006 18:32:28 GMT -5
i really appreciate it....you've been great
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 23, 2006 15:56:59 GMT -5
Dinos22,
i think we still need to get some more info about the HBs.
we need to determine which coil (slugs or holes) is connected between the shield and red.
and also re-confirm the "sensing polarity"
i'd like you to do the screwdriver test again, but somebody (JohnH ?) mentioned a slightly different method a while back.
i tryed it last night and it produces much more signal. this should make it easier to detect the voltage.
lay the screwdriver shaft flat on top of the coil. it should be parallel to all the pole-pieces.
as you allow it to slide across, so that it is stuck to all the pole-pieces, you will see the voltage rise briefly. as you slide it so there is a gap between the pole-pieces and the screwdriver, but the screwdriver is still on top of the coil, you will again see the voltage rise briefly. but this time the polarity will be opposite.
"normal" sensing polarity will be when the voltage goes positive when the screwdriver moves into the pole-pieces,
and negative when it moves away.
re-check the HBs and the single, to determine which direction the connections need to be to get a "normal" response.
and also check to determine if it is the coil with the slugs, or the coil with the holes that produces a voltage when the meter is connected between the red and shield
unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 29, 2006 9:09:12 GMT -5
ok in terms of HBs and first part i've followed instructions and moving screwdriver AWAY gives a consistently positive value while mocing screwdriver in will consistently give negative value on coils and slugs
i just let the screwdriver hande get stuck in the middle of all magents and i've move it to left and right and i've also pulled itup and put it back down................and results were the same............up and away = POSITIVE and down and inwards was NEGATIVE..........
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 29, 2006 9:13:40 GMT -5
re-check the HBs and the single, to determine which direction the connections need to be to get a "normal" response.and also check to determine if it is the coil with the slugs, or the coil with the holes that produces a voltage when the meter is connected between the red and shieldunk not sure i know what to do here exactly
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 29, 2006 9:26:42 GMT -5
you covered the first part, in your previous reply.
now for the "and also" part.
connect between the red and shield on the AHs. only one coil will produce a voltage when you do the screwdriver test. the other coil will produce no voltage (or almost nothing).
which coil produces the voltage? flat slugs, or holes?
unk
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dinos22
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Post by dinos22 on Jun 29, 2006 17:34:55 GMT -5
you covered the first part, in your previous reply. now for the "and also" part. connect between the red and shield on the AHs. only one coil will produce a voltage when you do the screwdriver test. the other coil will produce no voltage (or almost nothing). which coil produces the voltage? flat slugs, or holes? unk ok i just checked and they both producea voltage BUT the holes products a much bigger value than flat coils
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Post by UnklMickey on Jun 29, 2006 17:47:37 GMT -5
Okay Dinos22, that's the last piece of the puzzle.
i'll post a drawing. (probably tomorrow)
cheers,
unk
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