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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 16, 2006 20:03:21 GMT -5
hi guys! remember me?  it's been a while since i've tinkered w/ guitar wiring so maybe you can help... i'm installing GFS lipstick pups and would like to find a diagram of a Strat-style 5-way switch wired so that the pups are wired in series, like the Danelectro guitars were. like i said, it's been a while so i just wanna make sure i'm doing things right. |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 17, 2006 0:01:53 GMT -5
three. one is a HB but i'm splitting it to use just one coil. (i got one that's extra hot so when split has a similar output as the SCs.) and i've got a push/pull pot to work with, which i'm thinking of using for series/parallel switching. combinations: i guess bridge/middle and middle/neck would be most obvious and most useful. suggestions? i've never even worked w/ 5-ways--just 3's and on/offs! here's the git btw.--the white one at far right...  it's gonna look hot w/ lippies in it! got it for $25!  |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 17, 2006 14:49:38 GMT -5
EDITI was gonna modify my post above, where I asked GuyaGuy how many pickups he had in his guitar. Instead, my incredibly fat fingers (on the mouse) hit the Delete button, and Presto!, it's gone. So don't think that GuyaGuy was hallucinating in his second message, OK? ;D Sorry 'bout that. /editGG, Hmmmm, usually, before I do any design work, I consult the Schematics sub-forum, and previous pages of this forum, in an attempt to keep from re-inventing the wheel.  I distinctly remember the Mike Richardson circuit doing pretty much exactly what you want, but with a 4PDT switch. This is a probably a bit more complicated than your push-pull pot's switch, which is most likely a DPDT. However, I found that fobits (Frank) submitted a modified version a few months ago, using just a push-pull switch like yours. That circuit is posted here. For discussion surrounding this circuit, you can read the entire thread (about 4 pages), but it should be pretty easy to understand on its own. (Just be aware that the thread drifted somewhat off-topic from the original intent.  ) See if that suits you, and let us know what you think, all right? sumgai
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 17, 2006 16:07:27 GMT -5
OK i looked at that diagram, trying to figure out if it had 2 5-ways. then i jumped over the S.Duncan site and saw some "Super 5 Way" diagrams with 5-ways with 10 tabs.
whew! that explained a lot! didn't know they made em like that! like i said--no experience w/ 5-ways!
i have one with 8 tabs (4-way) and one with 10 (5-way). is it going to be possible with one of those or will i need the Super 5-Way?
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Post by ccoleman on Sept 17, 2006 20:42:11 GMT -5
guya guy.. note, the super 5way (aka superswitch) has 24 tabs : (1 input + 5 outputs = 6) * 4 = 24.
"4 poles, 5 throws."
i would definitely get the superswitch because for a few bucks more it offers a more wide range of pickup tone possibilities.
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 17, 2006 22:39:21 GMT -5
I definitely like this Mike Richardson scheme. I find it to be very logical (no manual required) and most toneful. I do prefer it with somewhat disparate/dissimilar pickups for variety. It uses the 4 pole 5 throw lever Super switch and a DPDT switch for mode selection.  This is the first place that I used it: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=1144693179Regarding , mine is a schematic (at the top), a wiring diagram (at the bottom), and a switching table on the right side. Mine is more complex in that I also show the phase reversal/tone pots that are across the bridge and neck pickups respectively. It's still all Mike tho. |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 17, 2006 23:40:38 GMT -5
ccoleman + ChrisK,
thanks for the replies.
so i guess it means i'd need a Superswitch to do a series/parallel switch?
so how would i wire a this just for series? i haven't even been able to find a schematic for straight series wiring. any links?
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Post by sumgai on Sept 18, 2006 3:38:12 GMT -5
GG, Most likely, that's because you need to be able to switch (control the position of) the ground wires for two of the pickups, and the hot wires for one of those, and the remaining pup. All in all, you must be able to control the connection of 4 different wires, and with a 4P5T switch, that's easy. With only a 2P5T, that can't be done, to my way of thinking. Perhaps someone else here might get it to work, but even with a DPDT to assist in my switching mania, I couldn't do it. Sorry. Want my advice? Snatch up a Superswitch, and be done with it. Shop around, I've seen them go for $12 or $13, on sale at some websites. Believe me, this will make life easier all around. sumgai |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 8:48:06 GMT -5
...so how would i wire a this just for series? .... hey there, "GeeyaGuy", yep, we remember ya. welcome back. if you are gonna do a strictly series arrangement, separate DPDT switches for each pickup would be pretty easy to do. Dano actually just used a single pole, to shunt whichever pickup(s) they wanted to turn off, but that's against my religion. (lol) but, if you already have a slot for a 5-way, you might prefer to go the superswitch route. let me know what hardware you plan to use (lever and/or mini-toggle and/or slide and/or push-pull pot...etc) and we'll come up with a plan. also will this be an all in-phase arrangement, as well as all series? unk |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 18, 2006 17:34:29 GMT -5
hi unklmickey! i saw that you and wolf and a few others are still around. looks like the newer forumites are really helpful too! you know, what, i think i've completely rethought this project. i already have 2 guitars w/ parallel wiring. and i'm wanting a fairly authentic Dano tone so i'm actually thinking it might be more fun to do this: 1. pickups in series only 2. splittable HB (push/pull pot) 3. all in phase. and that's it. so the splitting i can handle but i've not done 5-ways or series so any help there would be appreciated. surely there's a diagram out there for series using a simple 5-way?  unfortunately i haven't been able to find it.  |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 17:44:16 GMT -5
surely there's a diagram out there for series using a simple 5-way? maybe, but i haven't seen one. shouldn't be too hard to create one, though. with a 5-way, and 3 pickups you have more possibilities than positions. 1 -- bridge 2 -- middle 3 -- neck 4 -- bridge * middle 5 -- bridge * neck 6 -- middle * neck 7 -- bridge * middle * neck pick 5 from the above list, and put them in the order you want. unk |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 18, 2006 17:57:16 GMT -5
1 -- bridge
2 -- middle
3 -- neck
4 -- bridge * middle
5 -- bridge * neck
6 -- middle * neck
those are the ones i basically need. if i can do this with what i have now i'd be very happy, although i understand the bridge/neck combo may not be possible if i'm using my only push/pull for splitting the HB. so i'd be happy w/ a traditional strat-style selection--albeit in series.
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 18:13:11 GMT -5
since we only have 5 positions on the main switch, you can only have 5 choices, unless we add more switches.
so, is this the plan?
1 -- bridge
2 -- bridge * middle
3 -- middle
4 -- middle * neck
5 -- neck
(or did you want the order the same as your list, minus one of the positions)
(you CAN trade away any one of those combos or singles for neck*bridge)
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 18, 2006 19:20:26 GMT -5
oh....whoops. i was multitasking and added a virtual position on the 5way! yeah, let's do the standard strat thing just like yout list: 1 -- bridge 2 -- bridge * middle 3 -- middle 4 -- middle * neck 5 -- neck |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 19:57:49 GMT -5
okay then, let's see if you like this:  the left side is the standard strat sequence, but in-series, of course. the right side is a bit more interesting. when the push-pull is in split mode, you get a bonus in positions 4 and 5. i just blew right through this, so we'll wait 'til another member proofreads it for us. unk EDIT: yet another version on reply #17 |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 18, 2006 20:19:12 GMT -5
hey, thanks for "blowing right through" that.
while we wait for a proofread, lemme ask this...
the connections represented by the black dots...would those indicate jumpers between the tabs?
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 20:26:01 GMT -5
yep, pretty much.
in general, the way i draw, if there are wires that cross each other, and there is no dot, they don't connect.
if there is a dot, they do connect.
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 18, 2006 22:13:47 GMT -5
awright, one last permutation of this magilla for tonight.  JohnH is one of the few people who understands my madness, well enough to know why i did this. |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 18, 2006 23:40:01 GMT -5
unk, Interesting circuitry there. One thought tho..... GG has stated a couple of times that he'd like to retain his current "standard" Strat 5-way switch. Since he hasn't said otherwise, I'm operating under the assumption that this would be a 2P5T. As with the Mike Richardson setup, your diagram forces him to upgrade his switch. Not that I'm against that, mind you, ( ) but after all, it's his money, not mine.  GG, this is yet another reason to relegate your current switch to the spare parts bin, and step up to the counter and give the nice man all of your money. ;D Proofreading in progress, please standby..... sumgai |
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 19, 2006 0:30:28 GMT -5
yeah, it's a 2P5T. if i can get away with using that then great. otherwise $13 for the superswitch ain't gonna kill me. it just delays my enjoyment of some lipstick honking goodness! thanks for doing the proofreading! |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 19, 2006 0:46:19 GMT -5
my design requires a 4P5T superswitch. also, the wire going to position 3 on the lower left of all 3 drawings is unnecessary. ...One thought tho..... GG has stated a couple of times that he'd like to retain his current "standard" Strat 5-way switch.... okay Sumgai, remember it's all SERIES. and a push-pull to split the HB. now it's your turn at bat!unk |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 19, 2006 1:34:57 GMT -5
And he swings!Oh my, it's going, going.... going........ going............ Stay tuned boys and girls, for the exciting conclusion of tonight's game next week! Remember, same Bat time, same Bat channel! ;D OK, unk, GG has chimed in with his willingness to compromise and step up to the counter. That's a good thing, as we've known all along. And if you'll recall, I did state already that I can't make it happen in any way, shape or form with only 2 poles. But since you've made some interesting combo's, I thought I'd trace it all out, and I came up with this truth table:  That's certainly a different slant on things, if you don't mind my saying so. You gotcher basic 5, plus N*B and all three (albeit with a half-HB, but so what - who counts coils amongst friends, right?), plus a fat M*B, if you're so inclined. I'd think that someone ought to try this out, just for grins, if nuttin' else. ;D GG, I did mean that the $13 I spoke of is low-ball, after you've looked pretty hard, I'm sure. Most of the big-boys want close to $20 for the thing. But they're probably quicker, and usually have better warranty service. Caveat emptor!But since my name is Karnak the All-Seeing, I'm gonna answer your question before you can ask it.  www.projectguitar.com has a page listing a large number of resources. On that page, I found Universal Jems. This is the index page, and I suggest you read it. He explains about quickness of shipping versus cost savings versus volume purchasing, blah, blah, woof, woof, f___ ya if ya don't like it. (© Jimi Hendrix, 1967) The link for his actual store is at the bottom, on the left. This is his Switches page, and the Superswitch we're discussing is about half-way down. Note the price is currently $11.25. But the wait for shipping might be up to a month. Do some more shopping around before you make up your mind. Or while yer waitin', go check how all those lipstick tubes got emptied out in the first place, if'n you know what I mean. ;D sumgai
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Post by GuyaGuy on Sept 19, 2006 3:53:35 GMT -5
first off, thanks to everyone for putting the thought and effort into this! it's much appreciated. so the "truth table" does that apply to the last of unklmickey's diagrams? i'm really only used to wiring 2 HBs w/ 3 ways, but recently i play mostly SCs. so i have no idea what that superswitch is doing! but yeah...that actually sounds like a cool array of options. who knows...i might end up using them all! ;D using only one coil of the bridge pup is actually preferable for series in this case. i got an especially hot (12K) HB just for that purpose. the SCs are 4.9 and 6K so i can switch, for example, from a 12K HB bridge position to a neck bridge combo (at 10.9K), there won't be a drastic difference in output. if you dig. i've never had a guitar in series...is there any strat-style "phase cancellation" with neighboring pups? sumgai, Rudy's here in NYC has parts (allparts, Fender, etc.) so i might just check there. if nothing else it'll give me a chance to ogle their vintage gear! i don't know their prices cuz i just moved here but it's prob'ly close to the same price as online once you calculate s&h. besides i got the guitar for $25 so i can swing $20 for a switch! |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 19, 2006 11:19:05 GMT -5
GG, Yeah, I should have been more explicit, but I was indeed referring to the latest creation of that ever-fertile mind we all know and love. ;D Well stick around, bunky! I'm sure you'll catch on fairly quickly. It's really nothing more than a logic puzzle..... all you do is start with a premise (the desired combinations), and connect the dots to make a path for each combo. After that, you check to make sure you didn't include alternate paths to things you don't want, such as a second pickup being included where there shouldn't be one. And of course you check to see that polarities are correct, in-phase, out-of-phase, etc. Simple, really, when you think about it - there's no electronics involved at all, everything is mechanical at this point. As they say in the FPS business, just point and shoot! ;D Just be aware that the rated output impedance is not the final indicator of a pup's actual performance! Many considerations go into what makes a pickup sound the way it does, and the impedance is only one way to measure what a pup can do. Again, read back several weeks' worth of topics here, and in the Pickups forum, and you'll get an idea of why I'm saying this. BTW, ChrisK (and others) like the idea of disparate pickups like you're using. I can't comment one way or the other, as I'm strictly a 3-of-a-kind SC guy. Yes, the noise cancelling effect still takes place, just as you'd expect. Well, how nice for you! ;D Just kidding! ;D ;D Seriously, yes, the S&H can about cancel out any savings from using the innerweb, it will sometimes be as much as, or more than, the sales tax! And one can't ignore that instant gratification factor, can one? And the double-sawbuck you blew on the axe? Good investment! But if you ever get to doubting whether or not you did the right thing, just remember that age-old admonition: "A thing of beauty is a joy forever!" ;D (© Holly Pitts, 1965) Good luck! sumgai |
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 19, 2006 11:41:59 GMT -5
Plumbing is.
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 19, 2006 12:48:40 GMT -5
...Remember, same Bat time, same Bat channel! ;D...  as Chris would say, "don't hurt yourself" |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 19, 2006 13:18:57 GMT -5
i've corrected the drawings and added some text. i indicate polarity of the pickups with "a" and "b". it doesn't matter whether "a" is North or South, just be consistent. in the original version, the HB split switch did only that. so you have a total of 7 different sounds. position 1(fat), position 2(split), and position 4 are hum-canceling. in the "PLUS" version, i also use the split switch to introduce Bridge (a) into the combinations 4, and 5. position 4(split): Neck(a), Middle(b), and Bridge (a) is hum- reducing. position 5(split): Neck(a) and Bridge (a) is not hum-canceling. that expands the total to 9.  in the PLUS+ version i use -Neck(a) and -Bridge(b) to make position 5(split) hum-canceling.  note:
humcanceling is predicated on the use of 1 regular single, 1 RWRP single, and 1 HB.unk |
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Post by ccoleman on Sept 19, 2006 13:21:30 GMT -5
awesome !
+1 for unk !
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 19, 2006 13:55:42 GMT -5
Ccoleman,
Q,QQQ,QQQ,QQQ.
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Post by ccoleman on Sept 19, 2006 14:24:53 GMT -5
don't understand the Q's ?! |
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I distinctly remember the Mike Richardson circuit doing pretty much exactly what you want, but with a 4PDT switch. This is a probably a bit more complicated than your push-pull pot's switch, which is most likely a DPDT. 
)
