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Post by morecowbell on Oct 2, 2006 15:32:23 GMT -5
Howdy All,
Quick question:
Just installed a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails pickup (4 wires) in the bridge position of a Mexican Stratocaster, along with the middle and neck pickup from a set of 3 Fender Vintage Noiseless pickups I bought on ebay.
My problem: The Hotrails and neck pickups sound great. The middle pickup, however, has much lower output and sounds very treble-ly. Any guesses as to what might be wrong and how to correct it? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Post by Happyguy on Oct 2, 2006 16:01:08 GMT -5
Hello fellow. Welcome to here.
I am in no way certain but the way you described this sounds like the pickup might be out of phase. Does this drop in outpout and change in sound happen when the pickup is used with another one?
Other idea. I think that noiseless pickups use a dummy coil to cancel hum. This coil is isolated by the meens of a metal plate I think. So that is sounds closer to a single coil. Perhaps there was a mistake in wiring and you are using the dummy coil. Please revise the wiring job. Look for anything that looks wrong (little bits of solder making bridges... bad connections ect)
Adieux
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Post by UnklMickey on Oct 2, 2006 16:04:16 GMT -5
quick answer:
it's too far away from the strings.
raise the middle pickup.
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Post by morecowbell on Oct 2, 2006 16:30:06 GMT -5
Thanks for those quick responses...
happyguy: the change in sound only happens when the middle pickup is used alone. Every other position on the 5-way switch sounds rich and full, though I can't really hear the middle pickup very well in the 2 and 4 positions. I'll check the solder joints and look for any problems, too. If it might be out of phase, is there an easy way to rewire it to find out?
unklmickey: Thanks, I'll check the pickup height. I do generally prefer the middle pickup to be lower than the others, so I'll make sure that isn't the cause of this particular problem. (And if it is the cause, I promise to make fun of myself repeatedly and without mercy for posting this without checking such a simple thing first.)
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Post by UnklMickey on Oct 2, 2006 16:42:29 GMT -5
... (And if it is the cause, I promise to make fun of myself repeatedly and without mercy for posting this without checking such a simple thing first.)... WHAT! ...................and steal all our fun? *snicker* |
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Post by morecowbell on Oct 2, 2006 19:23:12 GMT -5
Follow up:
Ok, so I just checked the pickup height and that's not the problem. (Raised it as high as the others and higher. Still get that low-output, "tinny" treble-sound from the middle pickup only.) So I'll assume since everything else is working perfectly that this pickup is simply out of phase. What's the easiest way to bring it in phase? Or would it be easier to just replace it with the extra bridge pickup I now have? To be honest, I don't use the middle pickup much and it would be very easy for me to live with it like this, however I want to learn the rules before I start breaking them. Thanks again for any help.
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Post by UnklMickey on Oct 2, 2006 19:41:05 GMT -5
...So I'll assume since everything else is working perfectly that this pickup is simply out of phase.... since it sounds tinny alone, phase (relative to the other pickups) is not the problem. Happyguy mentioned this is essentially a HB with the string sensing coil on top, and the hum-canceling coil below (if i correctly understood what he was saying). i don't know enough about VNs to advise you further. if the 2 coils are in series, the sensing coil may be shorted, causing you to only be using the hum-canceling coil. if the 2 coils are in parallel, and the sensing coil is open (not connected) it would also result in using only the hum-canceling coil. i'd measure the resistance of the neck pickup and the middle pickup before i went any farther. you can do this without taking your guitar apart.set your volume at maximum. plug a cable into your guitar. set the pickup selector to neck only. measure the resistance between the tip and sleeve of the loose end of the cable. do the same with the selector in the middle only position. the 2 pickups should have very similar resistances. i suspect in your case, they don't. ChrisK will probably know more about the VNs. cheers, unk |
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Post by morecowbell on Oct 2, 2006 20:27:59 GMT -5
thanks unk...I see your point about it only happening when pickup is used ALONE...thus it's not a phase problem
I'll measure the resistance of the pickups and then perhpas check the wiring per happyguy's advice..thanks again...
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Post by morecowbell on Oct 15, 2006 10:45:10 GMT -5
Update:
OK, finally getting back to this:
Since I didn't already have one, I bought a multimeter with a needle (vs. the digital kind) becasue I've seen other posts here that indicate watching the direction of the needle movement can be helpful for other things.
Anyway, I measured the resistance per unk's advice.
The bridge pu hovers between 3 and 4 ohms, resting closer to 4.
The middle pu rests closer to 2 ohms.
The neck pu is between 3 and 4 ohms.
Is this indicative of anything (besides the fact that I'm a multimeter newbie, that is)?
Thanks for staying with me while I learn.
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Post by UnklMickey on Oct 16, 2006 14:28:31 GMT -5
hi Morecowbell.
first of all, those measurements were probably done on the x1000 scale, so that would mean multiply all the readings by 1k.
second, even so they all seem too low, so that probably means you didn't use the ohms adjust feature on your meter.
still, we see pattern in the relative measurements.
the resistance of the middle pickup is much lower (about half) of the value of the neck pickup.
if the coils of the VNs are in series (the internal connections of the 2 coils on each pickup), i would guess one of the coils of the middle pickup is shorted.
if you still have the bridge pickup from that set, measure the resistance.
it will probably read just a bit higher than the neck pickup.
if so, the no brains required fix would be to install the bridge pickup from the set in the middle position.
you might need to keep the pickup a little lower than normal to balance everything out, but that would actually be a good thing, since you will be less likely to catch the pole-pieces with your pick.
unk
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Post by morecowbell on Oct 17, 2006 5:24:51 GMT -5
Thanks unk. Will do.
Thanks again for all of your help.
morecowbell
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Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2007 17:16:22 GMT -5
Strat Vintage Noiseless Question: Epilogue
(Not a Quinn/Martin Production)
Just so we all get closure on this: unklmickey was right. The middle pickup was shorted. I installed the other pickup remaining from the set in its place and it sounds great. Thanks to all for your help, with special thanks to unklmickey for his patience and good advice.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 21, 2007 22:32:04 GMT -5
Yes I do, and that will be $1 U.S.
I thank you in advance.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 23, 2007 0:41:18 GMT -5
ChrisK will probably know more about the VNs.
Yes I do, and that will be $1 U.S.
I thank you in advance.Hey, can I get in on the action here? I can tell you about the VN's for only 50¢, and I accept cash, check, plastic, or baskets of eggs and goat's milk! ;D sumgai |
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