HSS - 3 knobs - 5 way lever

[Xochitl]

EDIT: I'll be updating my schematics here for a faster access to my latest trial.
- Diagram in .gif
- Diagram in .bmp

What I try to get:

+ Switch UP "Standard HSS Strat positions" (switching order is important)
- 1: A
- 2: A + B
- 3: B
- 4: B + C (split coil)
- 5: C

+ Switch DOWN "Additional HSS Strat positions"
- A x B => emulation of a neck humbucker
- (A x B) + C => emulation of a LP middle position
- A + B + C
- A + C (split) => emulation of a Tele middle position
- C split => strat bridge



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Hello,

I’m amazed by your community and I would like to know if you would be kind enough to help me out modding my guitar. I’m a noob with little to no understanding in electronics despite many hours reading wiring diagrams and guitar related electronic issues on the net.
I apologize beforehand as my first post is going to be a little lengthy, but questions keep on arising in my little mind as I’m reading through all this! ;D

I have a Fender HSS Stratocaster with a 5 lever switch, 1 volume and 2 tone knobs.
I would like to improve its electronics (even the humbucker doesn’t split for the moment). But I really want to preserve its stock appearance. I first decided to opt for the Fender S-1 switch with its Fender 5 way superswitch, but I didn’t get to understand how it connects, and I just found an S-1 with a 250 KOhm value whereas I want a 500 KOhm.

All pick-ups will be DiMarzio with 4 conductor wires (Paf Pro / Virtual 2 / Virtual 2). As you know, actually Virtual 2 single-coils are stacked humbuckers. So I decided to understand them as humbuckers even if only the north coil is to be used when split.


Here is what I’m trying to achieve:

Neck pick-up (Virtual 2) = A
Middle pick-up (Virtual 2) = B
Bridge pick-up (Paf pro) = C

+ = parallel
x = series

General comments and questions:
- I want the “stock” kind of HSS combo and the modded one separate.
- I wouldn’t mind going for a master Volume and one only master Tone (TBX?) leaving the 2nd Tone free for any other application (I thought of a rotary switch if I can’t go with the S-1, but I don’t have experience with it).
- I’d like to avoid push-push or push-pull switches (other than the S-1) on the Volume knob as I like to do swelling effects with it.
- Is the 250 KOhm issue that important on the Volume knob (I like my nowadays Paf pro sound, but I never tried it with a 250 KOhm - Fender uses a 250 Kohms S-1 on its HSS Am dlx FMT strat)?
- What would be the correct pot values for Tone and Volume (Dimarzio recommends 250 for Virtual 2’s, but I understand 500 would be better for the Paf pro. I know it may be a personal preference, but I'd like to go for a "standard approved" solution. )?


S-1 switch UP "Standard HSS Strat positions" (switching order is important)

• 1: A
  
• 2: A (split coil) + B (split coil)
  
• 3: B
  
• 4: B (split coil) + C (split coil)
  
• 5: C
  

Comment: Splitting coils seems important to me because I really want to retain the classic quack/bell like tone of position 2 & 4, and I believe stacked humbuckers as the Virtual 2 aren’t as much at home there as real single-coils.



S-1 switch DOWN "Additional HSS Strat positions" (switching order is less important, but should be logical) I just indicate what I consider important.

• 1: A x B => emulation of a neck humbucker
  
• 2: I leave this position to your creative suggestions.
  
• 3: (A x B) + C => emulation of a LP middle position
  
• 4: I leave this position to your creative suggestions.
  
• 5: A (split coil) x C (split coil) => emulation of a Tele middle position
  

Comment: My main concern here is to have a neck humbucker, a dual parallel humbucker (middle LP) and a middle Tele kind of sound. It’s better if they are humcancelling.
I had ideas for the 2 left positions inspired by Kinman and its K9 neck blender, but it was above all for the trick, so it isn’t that much important.



Please, don’t hesitate to make any comments or correct bad ideas.


Thank you for your attention and your help. ;D

[Xochitl]

Well... Processing ideas...

xochitl said:

- Is the 250 KOhm issue that important on the Volume knob (I like my nowadays Paf pro sound, but I never tried it with a 250 KOhm - Fender uses a 250 Kohms S-1 on its HSS Am dlx FMT strat)?
- What would be the correct pot values for Tone and Volume (Dimarzio recommends 250 for Virtual 2’s, but I understand 500 would be better for the Paf pro. I know it may be a personal preference, but I'd like to go for a "standard approved" solution. )?

If I can't find a "500KOhms S-1" for the volume, what about keeping the original volume pot (500K) and using the "250 KOhm S-1" as tone pot for the Virtual 2 pups?
Sure, it will be written "Volume" instead of "Tone", but it isn't such an issue IMHO. The 2nd Tone would then serve as Tone for the bridge.

[Xochitl]

I'm back for the worst! ;D
I drew a diagram that is quite near to what I aimed at. But I've got a few doubts that I'll explain after the image. Don't forget I'm a Noob!
>>>>The diagram is on a pop-up now.<<<<
I focus above all on the switch and the push-push connections. I'll see later for the tone controls.
I used the Dimarzio color code.

On the right side of the switch I organized the standard HSS strat positions.

• 1: A
  
• 2: A (split coil) + B (split coil)
  
• 3: B
  
• 4: B (split coil) + C (split coil)
  
• 5: C
  

On the left side I finally tried to get:

• 1: A x B => emulation of a neck humbucker
  
• 2: A & B & C => just to complete
  
• 3: (A x B) + C => emulation of a LP middle position
  
• 4: A (split coil) x C (split coil) => emulation of a Tele middle position
  
• 5: C (split coil)

I followed Unk's advice and split the south coil of the PAF to maximise humcancelling positions.
What bothers me is I don't really know if on the left side positions 1 & 2 are in parallel or in series. As I want a neck humbucker emulation, I'd like A & B in series for positoins 1 & 3.

HELP!!!

[UnklMickey]

Xochitl,

my friend, you're killin' me with that drawing. i'm not even going to try to determine what you actually have created, because with that deep blue background, it is hard to keep track of where things are going. i can't even get a decent print of it.

maybe someone else might be able to work with it, but my eyes prevent me from being able to do anything with it.

let me make a few suggestions for your next attempt:

choose a white or pale colored background.

don't use jpg! use gif instead. jpg is one of the surest ways to muddle up a drawing.

you had mentioned using the 250k pot (S-1 switch) as the tone control. IMHO that is a good idea. and yes, if it were me, i would prefer to use a 500k for the volume. but even if you were to use the S-1 as the volume control, it wouldn't be that bad.

the S-1 is a 4PDT switch. you could use 3 of it's poles to do the selection between coil split or not.

the way you have all your hot leads permanently connected to hot, is something that should be avoided, if possible. it will work, but could be very prone to hum and noise.



cheers,

unk

[Xochitl]

Thanks for the answer.
I chose a blue background to contrast with white wires, but I agree it's a little tiring!
I'll correct that asap.

Edit: I only changed the background colour.

[Xochitl]

>>>>The diagram is on a pop-up now.<<<<


I'm wondering if it may be just for the sake of learning. I've been chatting with other people and I'm less and less sure about splitting those stacked coils. :?

[phy7ajw]

I think if you want the classic 2 and 4 position sounds you don't want to split the Virtual 2 pickups. From what I can find they are tuned to sound like a classic Strat pickup so simply placing them in parallel should get you what you want (you will want to split the PAF Pro though).

I've done a similar thing with HSH where the 'S' in the middle is actually a SD Duckbucker (another humbucker tuned to sound like a single coil). Placed in parallel with the split coils from either humbucker, the classic 2 and 4 sounds are there in spades! Have a look and a listen here.

Similarly, I have an AmDlx Strat with SCN pickups (which are stacked humbuckers) and I don't believe there are any coil-splits involved in its wiring to produce the classic Strat sounds.

HTH

[Xochitl]

Thanks!
I'll start to think about another wiring. The basic principles will be the same (Standard HSS strat position & LP+Tele).

+ S-1 switch UP "Standard HSS Strat positions" (switching order is important)
- 1: A
- 2: A + B
- 3: B
- 4: B + C (split coil)
- 5: C


+ S-1 switch DOWN "Additional HSS Strat positions"
- A x B => emulation of a neck humbucker
- (A x B) + C => emulation of a LP middle position
- A + C (split) => emulation of a Tele middle position
- + 2 other configurations

[Xochitl]

I worked out another diagram as I realized there were several mistakes. I believe there'll still be many in the new one, but I feel I got a little better at understanding how it works.

I didn't try to split the stacked coils anymore, but in order to get the additional positions I have a few lugs with 3 wires soldered. I don't remember having seen that anywhere else, so I may be foolish doing it.
Anyway, I still worked with the 2 left poles for the standard positions and the right ones for the additional ones.

What I believe I may get:

+ S switch UP "Standard HSS Strat positions" (switching order is important)
- 1: A
- 2: A + B
- 3: B
- 4: B + C (split coil)
- 5: C

+ Switch DOWN "Additional HSS Strat positions"
- A x B => emulation of a neck humbucker
- (A x B) + C => emulation of a LP middle position
- A + B + C
- A + C (split) => emulation of a Tele middle position
- C split => strat bridge

Diagram in .gif
Diagram in .bmp

Some color explanations to help reading the additionnal positions:
- purple: single-coil positions 5 (strat bridge) & 4 (tele middle)
- brown: LP emulation positions 1 (neck humbucker) & 2 (middle LP)
- "black broken line": postion 3 (all parallel)

-----------------------------------------------
I realize I will have a hard time adding the tone controls if I want 2. I'd like to use my actual pots again, but there's a special double stacked one and I don't know its values.
If anyone wants to take a look inside my strat follow those links:
- the whole pickguard
- a focus on the pots and switch

PS: Unk', if you want to help me, I may send you the original excel file. ;D

[phy7ajw]

I'm sorry I just don't see what you're doing with what I presume is the 5-way (S1?) switch.

Rather than a picture, can you draw a real schematic diagram of what components and switches you're using? (like this one) It should make it easier for most folks around here to understand.

[Xochitl]

I'm just using a push-push (DPDT) as I haven't got how the S-1 works. It may go on one of the two Tone knobs. The 5 way is a 4 pole based on what I understood of the Superwitch.
I'd try a "real" schematic, but It may take me longer. I'm sorry, but I'm not even a noob with real electronics. Thanks for your help and patience.

Some explanations:

- On the 2 left poles I put the standard 5 HSS strat positions (Lonestar style). I then wired their poles to the push-push and the push-push to the volume. When choosing the lugs, I tried to anticipate on what I would need for the other poles.

- On the upper right pole I wired the 2 sc in series to make it the neck humbucker and wire it to the 2 first positions of the down right pole. This pole can't be heard if it' not connected to other poles' lugs.

- On the down right pole I wired the configurations I try to achieve connecting with the lugs from the other poles (and avoiding "boucles"). I then wired its pole to the push-push and the push-push to the volume.

- The push should should chose between the the two pair of poles, as a different "bank of sounds" should correspond to each pair of poles.



PS: Excuse my bad english.

[UnklMickey]

hi Xochitl,

i expect to be extremely busy until the new year, so i won't have much time to help.

i think your representation of the DPDT is a bit off. the way one of those switches works is that the 2 poles in the center row, each connect to either the throw above it, or the one below, depending on the position of the switch.

as far as the superswitch goes, it looks like you are showing the top-most and bottom-most connections (double lines) as the poles. that seems reasonable. this drawing is still hard to follow, but a quantum leap forward from the first one.

i don't have time to trace out what you have created here, but i don't think it is what you were hoping for. i hope someone else has time to work with you on this.


unk

[Xochitl]

Thanks anyway. The learning curve will be a little longer.

I corrected again a few little things:
- Diagram in .gif
- Diagram in .bmp

I should do an electric diagram in a few days. It might be easier to understand.
But any comments are welcome meanwhile.

[ChrisK]

Consider using these drawings as a basis for a schematic.
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1158705194

?Excel as in PCAD?

[Xochitl]

PCAD?

Thanks for the template. I had already seen it. The matter is I don't have a picture software.

I'll work something out.