Hi-pass w/ mid boost?

[ChristoMephisto]

Finally came up with some sounds on my Hagstrom II. Originally it had two pup selectors, a .04uf tone switch and a 12k res to "mute" it, and a kill switch, to a single vol pot. Didn't want to mod this in a way to destroy the appearance from the outside even with mini-toggles, so i was restricing myself to the five dpdt sliders.
Kept the two pup selectors, first tone adds .012uf, second adds .025uf, all four on/off. Added a 220k res to emulate a tone pot. The kill switch became a 01 parallel/003 in series. This allows for a Varitone of variety with a choise of 01,022,035,047uf.
The series cap allows hi frequencies pass, and when a tone cap is added (012,025,037) it gets a fatty almost reverbery sound. IF that makes sense.
Depending on the pup, its either good for strumming or pickin'
Could anyone explain this, is this a mid boost with highs?

[spitfire23bc]

christomephisto said:

The series cap allows hi frequencies pass, and when a tone cap is added (012,025,037) it gets a fatty almost reverbery sound. IF that makes sense.
Depending on the pup, its either good for strumming or pickin'
Could anyone explain this, is this a mid boost with highs?

Hi christomephisto, welcome on board!

I'm not sure that I quite understand what is going on with the all the caps, but I do know that in a passive circuit (which from your description I guess this is) you cannot boost tone, only cut it.

The tone caps essentially short some frequencies to ground (the range depends on the which value components you use), whilst letting other frequencies through. So the only tone control you have in a passive circuit is to remove frequencies.

So, while it is possible to have a treble-cut, a bass-cut (not quite so effective) and, I presume a mid-cut (with some nifty fiddling of caps), without op amps and the like you cannot go any further.

If what you have sounds like it is boosting the mid and/or high frequencies, I would hazard a guess that you've created a bass-cut filter.

Someone with a bit more experience might something more to say, but I hope this makes sense!

[gfxbss]

spitfire is correct. you cant do boosts on passive electronics. if you would like to put in a preamp, then you can do boosts.

tyler

[borsanova]

Are the two pickups wired in series? In this case you can certainly achieve a fatter sound. It's not a tone boost, but if you bypass certain parts of the sound spectrum of each pickup or only one of them you can even get a broader sound in what I call a "broadbucker" configuration. Soundwise the result is quite similar to a treble boost.

For the theories of broadbucker wiring look here:

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1166627614

[ChristoMephisto]

The pups are wired in standard parallel. Will probably swap in a series/parellel switch. Like the sound of teh broadbucker, could be a good option to explore. Kind limited with my options as its a vintage guitar and wont be altering the pickguard. It only has five dpdt swtiches and one vol pot with two single coils. (Hagstrom II '65)
Guess it would be a bass cut, it get much louder/brighter when the series cap is engaged, someone else refered to it as a King Albert sound...then capping it with the parallel caps it cuts the treble fatting up some part, but like i said its not the best for strumming fast, great for pickin tho, gona have to wait til this weekend to show it off to my bass playin' friend, pretty sure he'll have a better idea, still curious about the sound. Don't think there is enuff info on the net about caps in series either...

[sumgai]

christomephisto

.......
Don't think there is enuff info on the net about caps in series either...

Are you speaking of caps in series with each other, or in series with pickups?

As for the former, it's an elementary matter, google will treat you right.

The topic of caps and pickups in series has been addressed here, try the Search function, try "caps series pickups". Go back at least 300 days, perhaps even longer.

If that doesn't tell you what you want to know, just ask. We'll have to look at a few simple schematics, and perhaps one or two lines of math, but it's not any more difficult than understanding how pickups work in series versus paralllel.

HTH


sumgai

[ChristoMephisto]

Hey Sumgai,
Caps in series with the pups, also using caps in parellel at the same time. I searched through the forum and found some really interesting reading material in the caps in series. Google keeps giving me the treble bleed mod, and tons of ebay.
Funny enuff I got a Teisco (Mustang body->Tele head) that adds a 05 cap in series to the neck pup in Solo leaving the Tone control for the bridge, and it uses three dpdt on/on (pups, r'thm/solo)
waiting on a bridge from snailmail to play it and hear it for myself.
Gonna go dig through the schems for ideas, I like the Broadcaster one, kind hard with 2 pups tho, maybe a cap on the neck before in series with the bridge

Thanks a bunch

[borsanova]

christomephisto said:

Gonna go dig through the schems for ideas, I like the Broadcaster one, kind hard with 2 pups tho,

No problem with two pickups, important is however the distance between the two. In my experience a broadbucker gives even a more evident effect with single coils rather than with humbuckers. This is for instance the case with my DeArmond, the guitar on which I found this feature (view here):

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1162666265

Before that I had the same feature for two years on my Les Paul, but I never realized it. Now for best broadbucker effect on the Les Paul I put the bridge in local parallel mode. With two humbuckers it's hotter, but since both pickups are rather similar it is less evident.

christomephisto said:

maybe a cap on the neck before in series with the bridge

Yes, that's the way it's done.

[ChristoMephisto]

distance bewteen pups are 4 3/8", how does the distance effect it-less hum ?
I had saw on some other schem site having a 01 cap in series when in series to the bridge, all it said was 'this fattens up the sound' never realized it was the same thing, back to the drawin book to figure this out
Your DeArmond is sweet lookin'

[borsanova]

Hi christomephisto,

I realize from your questions and comments that the idea of broadbucker wiring is not yet clear. So I'll try again.

A cap in series may fatten up the sound, but this is not what broadbucker is about. Broadbucker fattens the sound in comparison to a single coil or a parallel wiring, but in comparison to a series combination it broadens the sound, that is most of all it gets brighter.

This is done with a trebles bypass to your neck pickup, that is a capacitor in parallel with your neck pickup. This way you exclude your neck pickup from contributing trebles to the overall sound and with the cap activated you'll get the trebles only from the bridge pickup. The bass and middle frequencies will be full throttle, but the trebles will come as sharp as ever from your bridge pickup alone.

Since the difference of sound between your pickups is given mainly by their different position towards the bridge, the higher the distance between the two, the more you can expect to broaden your sound with the above trick.

One downfall of this design is however, when you use it with single coils, that it's only halfwise hum-cancelling, that means it's ok for the lower frequencies, but not for the trebles hum.

[sumgai]

borsa,

......
One downfall of this design is however, when you use it with single coils, that it's only halfwise hum-cancelling, that means it's ok for the lower frequencies, but not for the trebles hum.

Technically, that's a true statement. However, the hum that we all object to is at either 60Hz or 120Hz. Yes, the 1st harmonic sometimes does show up, particularly in fluorescent and neon lighting. (Of course, that'd be 50/100Hz for you).

Those frequencies fall well into the 'remaining' humbucking region of your circuitry, thus the overall effect will be what the user desires - quiet.


sumgai

[ChristoMephisto]

The way you describe the cap in parellel to the neck pup only is alot like my Teisco I posted about earlier. Re-examined it and corrected meself. The .05 cap is in paralell to the neck pup, the bridge bypasses the tone pot when the Solo is switched on. Trebel cut for the neck, and none for the bridge. When in R'thm both use the 05 tone pot. So I have a visual of how that is wired and works. Its in standard parellel tho.
Still not sure how I went from Hi-band pass with caps in series to broadbuckin', but i guess it does go with what I am try to acheive. Still like the 003 cap in series sound, but would like to turn it off as well, have tone options (par. caps) and a series/paralell switch, adding a cap (value?) to the neck in series when in series wouldn't hurt either.
Probably be another week or so til i get around to it, the 42yr old guitar is going in for a much needed neck refinish and a clear body coat.
Thanks to all, you've been very helpful