stratman2
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Post by stratman2 on Feb 3, 2007 9:58:27 GMT -5
Hi there. Can anyone help a novice, please? I've just bought some Strat scn noiseless pickups from Ebay and just need some help in how to wire them into my US standard Strat. I'm not using the S1 switch so just need help identifying which wires to connect and to where. The bridge pickup has three wires; black, green and red. I presume black is ground and the other two are for series/parallel. I just want to wire them as standard at the moment. Do I have to still use all three wires or is one unnecessary? My uneducated guess is that I need to wire the black and the red wires. Can someone confirm? I have also noticed that the neck and middle seem to have the same specs. Would they, therefore, be interchangable? Lastly, if I put another bridge pickup in the mid position, would it allow me to lower the pickup and retain a good volume balance? The way I play, I'm always hitting the middle pickup with my pick!
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Post by sumgai on Feb 3, 2007 13:40:11 GMT -5
stratty, First off, hi, and to the forums! I also have ScN's in my unit, as do a few other members here. But I've learned over the years not to be surprised at what Fender does when it comes to colors. In fact, when I opened my axe the first time, all the color wires went to ground, and the three black one went to the switch. Didn't make a difference in how the thing sounded, but it did make tracing the wiring more challenging. Anyway, the bottom of your pickups should have clearly defined 'regions' where each lead comes from. Whichever lead is on the center is definitely ground (probably green, mine were/are). The remaining leads can be used as above, the important thing is to be consistent. If you want black to go to ground, fine, the red can be the "Hot" lead that goes to the switch. Nope, tain't so. The upper and lower coils are permanently wired in series, there's no way to switch that to parallel, short of going in and doing some major surgery. Not for the faint of heart. The Bridge pickup is considerably longer then your Middle unit. Note that currently, the strings run over the tops of the polepiece in the exact center. Moving the Bridge pup to the Middle position will cause the strings to fall short of the center position over the polepieces. Some folks don't mind, but I think that will defeat your purpose, to gain increased volume, thus allowing the pup to be lower (further down into the pickguard). The Neck and Middle pups may appear to be the same, but they are somewhat different too. But this swap may not be so bad, size-wise, you'll just have to try it. Also, be aware that the Middle pup is RWRP - reverse wound, reverse polarity. That's done to provide humbucking capability in Neck+Middle and Middle+Bridge combinations. Swapping the two would alter this to humbucking only in the Neck+Middle position - the Middle+Bridge would be of the same polarity and winding direction, thus they would reinforce the hum, not block it. Bad berrys. Overall, I give the idea of swapping any of the pickups between positions a -1. It doesn't have a good beat, and I can't dance to it! ;D You say that like it's a bad thing! ;D The cover won't show any abuse for years, unless you're using a metal pick (like I usually do). You can also buy replacement covers, if you're worried. Do so now, use them, and set the originals aside for later re-sale, if that's your concern. Or pull an unklmickey, and find a new 'picking lane'. ;D HTH sumgai
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stratman2
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Post by stratman2 on Feb 3, 2007 16:40:24 GMT -5
Firstly, sincere thanks for your warm welcome and your most comprehensive answers to all my queries ........... much appreciated. However, I am still a little unclear about how to wire the pickups. Do I solder the black wires to ground and the coloured wire on the farthest right (i.e. red) to the switch? If so, what happens to the middle (green) wire? Is this just left unattached or does it need to go anywhere e.g. ground?
Thanks again for your full and prompt response.
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stratman2
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Post by stratman2 on Feb 3, 2007 16:51:36 GMT -5
Hi Sumgai, I've just re-read your reply and examined the bottom of the pickup. The black (left) wire is soldered in a triangle shape, the green (middle as you correctly said) to a square shape and the red (right) to a circle shape. This means little to me but I presume it has some important significance to the way it is wired?
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 3, 2007 20:18:28 GMT -5
Indeed! The black (left) wire is soldered in a triangle shape - Phase/Return, connect to common/ground, the green (middle as you correctly said) to a square shape, Shield, connect to ground, and the red (right) to a circle shape + Phase/Output, it's like the outputNote that the triangle and circle are unique to the SCN's and can be reversed for phasing with other pickups. This is what the innards of one of mine looks like. A larger pic is here; i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/cekikta/S-1%20Strat/DSC02923HalfSize.jpgThere are specific pickups for the bridge, the middle, and the neck. This guitar had different resistances for each. While the middle and neck are similar, the bridge is usually hotter to make up for the reduced string excursion there. Yes and no. In a post on the FDP Forum, B.T. (2003 Frontline pg. 49) indicated the following structural info: On a SSS Am guitar, the SCN pickup coils are wired in parallel to provide a more vintage signal output level. On a HSS Am guitar, the SCN pickup coils are now wired in series to provide a hotter output for signal level compatibility with the bridge humbucker. I don't know when this was implemented (as in date code). In the above picture, both the neck and middle pickups have a "P" handwritten on them, and the bridge pickup has an "S". This may be an indicator of the internal structure. What is marked on the bottom of yours? On ebay, no indication is ever given as to which guitar the pickups were removed from. If you measure the resistance of all of the pickups (triangle to circle) and post the readings, I can compare them to some values that I have and perhaps we can determine the internal pickup structure. Since these are stacked humbuckers (i.e. noiseless), there is no meaning for RWRP, it is moot. They are all wound the same, and have the same magnetic polarity - mine do on the two guitars that I have) Aside from signal level and string spacing concerns, mix away.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 4, 2007 2:25:20 GMT -5
Chris,
OUCH!
A bit lower on the pixel count, s'il-vous plait!
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Post by UnklMickey on Feb 5, 2007 15:48:16 GMT -5
...The Bridge pickup is considerably longer then your Middle unit.... is it? is this true on SCNs? even on a standard strat using a RWRP at the bridge or neck, instead of the middle, doesn't give you fewer hum-canceling possiblities. it just changes where they exist. in-phase hum-canceling for RWRP at Neck: Neck + Middle Neck + Bridge in-phase hum-canceling for RWRP at Middle: Neck + Middle Middle + Bridge in-phase hum-canceling for RWRP at Bridge: Neck + Bridge Middle + Bridge
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 5, 2007 17:13:27 GMT -5
Yo, guys.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 5, 2007 17:19:03 GMT -5
Oh ye of little resolution.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 6, 2007 3:49:41 GMT -5
Chris, Thanks..... I think. ;D I tried the magnet trick on my unit (never felt the need before this) and sure enough, they're all the same polarity. Just jumped to the same ol' conclusion, must be too many sightings of 'single-coil', perhaps I need to do a humbucker job or two, eh? Some time ago, I pried off the pickup covers to see what was underneath the hood. Careful as I was, I still managed to snag, and break, some #42 Formvar. Sigh. No signal whatsoever, not just reduced. Speaks to series, not parallel, no? And the overall resistance is the addition of the two individual coils, I assure you. And yes, this was on the Bridge unit. I don't have pictures of the bottoms of my pups, and I'm not currently inclined to open it up just now, so I'll take your word for it about the Neck and Middle being parallel, and about the "P" and "S" designators. unk, Yes, I forgot about the "new" Neck/Bridge being a humbucker position. Shame on me! sumgai
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stratman2
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Post by stratman2 on Feb 6, 2007 7:20:33 GMT -5
Thanks for all the most helpful responses to my original questions. I never imagined it would spark such healthy debate! I did wonder why swapping the neck and middle would make any difference as they're already hum-cancelling pickups. I'm quite relieved as I bought a bridge and two necks by mistake from reliable Fender. I have two other Strats with Kinman AVN's and they are wired just like single coils with two conductors. The only thing I am slightly puzzled about it why your SCN's appear to have only two conductors and mine have three, ChrisK? You also mentioned damaging the wiring by taking off the cover. Are the covers not meant to be removed? If this is the case, I've got a problem as I bought one with a black cover and two aged white with the expectation of replacing them with stock parchment ones from my US Standard Strat.
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Post by UnklMickey on Feb 6, 2007 12:13:30 GMT -5
...Yes, I forgot about the "new" Neck/Bridge being a humbucker position. Shame on me! ... bygones. ...I never imagined it would spark such healthy debate!... 'round these parts, ya can't even say the sky is blue without sparking a debate. we'll hash it out, until we're certain the sky IS blue, as well as the exact color temperature.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 6, 2007 13:48:03 GMT -5
...I never imagined it would spark such healthy debate!... 'round these parts, ya can't even say the sky is blue without sparking a debate.
we'll hash it out, until we're certain the sky IS blue, as well as the exact color temperature.The Kelvin scale is your friend!
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Post by sumgai on Feb 6, 2007 13:55:26 GMT -5
stratman, You should be able to remove the covers, with great caution and care. I must have been exhuberent that day or something. The covers were very tight, and fought me every mm of the way - didn't particularly want to go back on, either. They aren't mounted permanently or anything, they're just mighty tight. I've got a friend with a pair of Strats, both with Kinmans. My axe doesn't hold a candle to either of his guitars, the difference is worse than between night and day. But I'm not saying anything here, ya know, I'm just sayin'..... sumgai
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stratman2
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Post by stratman2 on Feb 6, 2007 16:37:02 GMT -5
I can definitely second that. The Kinmans are the best pickups ever! Not only great sounding but totally noiseless. I don't know how you guys feel but I just can't tolerate normal single coils any more, no matter what they sound like tone-wise! Only problem is the price. I paid £220 for each set (450USD). I read every review I could find about the SCN's and they seemed to get a big thumbs up from most users, unlike the original vintage noiseless which, I believe, sounded toneless and flat. I don't expect the SCN's to be as good but they cost me a third of the price! Thanks, Sumgai, for the info about the pickup covers. I'll just have to be extra careful taking them off and hope for the best. I can't remember having too much trouble with the Kinmans and they were quite tight as well.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 6, 2007 17:10:16 GMT -5
Well, check the magnetic polarity at BOTH ends of each pole piece.
It's the SAME.
"Structure" mewed the metallic cat, "the opposite is permanently betwixt."
L'oy dit le rabbin indices nouveaux.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 10, 2007 15:05:12 GMT -5
?
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Post by sumgai on Feb 10, 2007 17:34:47 GMT -5
Chris, Interesting, but the fact remains that in a standard SSS setup, the outer two pups would have repelled the magnet hovering over them, and the middle one would have attracted it. Like I said, I never gave it any thought, even though I've owned this axe for over a year! Doing the test now, I found that all three attracted the magnet, just as you said. And of course, it hurts that I didn't read stratman2's original message more carefully. ;D sumgai
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lt
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Post by lt on Jul 1, 2019 20:28:21 GMT -5
Howdy, I too am a novice. I have a fender scn neck single coil pickup that I wanna put in my cheap strat copy. In the bridge I have a dimarzio hot rail pickup (dp182), stock pickup in middle and a 5 way pickup selector. I want to set it up as simply as possible - neck, neck/mid, mid, mid/bridge, bridge. Three wires: black (top/triangle), green (middle/square), white (bottom/circle). I presume the green is ground; but I dont know what to do with the other two. Should I solder them together and join them to the neck position on the pickup selector? Or, just one to the selector and the other to ground.
Thanks for any advice
LT
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Post by newey on Jul 2, 2019 11:56:45 GMT -5
LT- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!You've resurrected a very old thread, but no worries. The short answer to your question is contained in Post #4 above, by the late ChrisK. The center green wire is the shield connection and is always wired to ground the outer wires(black and white on yours)are the signal wires, one goes to hot and the other to ground. Ahhh, you say, but which goes to which? The OP way back in 2007 was talking about using 3 SCNs, and the sage advice was that it didn't matter, so long as all 3 pickups were wired the same way. IOW, all the blacks either go to the switch, and the other wires all go to ground, or vice versa. Doesn't matter, so long as all three are wired the same way, all 3 pups will be in phase. Your situation is different, since you are mixing two different brands of pickup- you will want them to be in phase with each other, so you need to know which way the DM pickup is phased. You have 2 options, as follows: 1) The "down and dirty" option. Pick one way, wire it up, replace the pickguard, restring it, and see if the pickups are in phase or not- if not, you'll get a weak, trebly signal. Your odds are 50-50 of getting it right. But if you guess wrong, then you have to unstring, open the guitar up, and swap the wires around the other way. (This sort of thing is much easier on guitars with a rear control cavity). 2) Your other option is to test both pickups before wiring. This takes a bit of effort, but you'll know for sure which way is the right way before you wire everything up. To do so, you will use the "screwdriver pull-off test" which is described here.
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