I've got some seymour duncan stacked HB tele pups in a 3 pup guitar that I made from scratch. Right now they're wired in local parallel, and I can hardly hear the difference between N and B. Local series was no better, so I'm going back to cut out a coil and just use them as singles.
I would like to alternate which coils of the HB's I'm using to get optimum noise canceling when combining pups.
Assuming like colors equal like polarity, I think I'm aiming for something similar to the above crap drawing I made for you all to enjoy.
The guitar was initially wired up using the S-tastic Expanded schem that Hastings so kindly drew up for me, but I switched it back to John A's original S-tastic mod after having trouble with the pots I was using. (They switched fined, but the shaft rotated too easily, and I kept inadvertently turning down my volume while playing)
So, the question is...which colored wires represent the reverse coils on a SD?
And...when I re-implement Hastings' S-tastic Expanded, is there a better way to wire the pups to the pusher pots & superswitch in order to maximize hum reduction when phasing the mid pup against the 4P5T?
I hope that made sense, and that it gains the attention of the very capable minds here at GN2. For referrence, I've included the following links.
Hi eljib - very sorry but Im not understanding your diagram. Where are the grounds?, how does it relate to the switch? Which is the switch pole? of the three coils with wires, it appears that they are all connected permanently together? what about the other coils?
Sorry for the confusion. I'm horrible at starting threads that make sense, but chrisk got it right: the pic was just my way of trying to show which coils would be selected at the different stops on the switch (and I screwed that up as well). As I stated before, this is a 3 pup guitar wired with John A's original S-tastic mod (which features an independent volume control to blend the middle pickup in parallel with whatever you've got selected on the 4P5T) so, the mid pup ain't goin' nowhere, fellas.
For those who didn't follow the links, John's design provided the following options:
1. Neck 2. Neck + Bridge 3. Neck x Bridge 4. Neck x (oop) Bridge 5. Bridge
When I did this before with strat single coils, options 2 & 3 were not hum canceling due to the polarity of the pickups. For this guitar I'm using Tele neck and bridge pickups and a strat mid. The tele pups are Seymour Duncan STK-T3b / STK-T1n Vintage Stacks. Because of the RWRP of stock tele N & B pups, pos. 2 & 3 will be hum canceling. The problem is that these are 4 wire pups, and I don't know the polarity of the different coils in my stacked HB's. (Also, I was hoping that I could hum cancel pos. 4 by switching which coil I used on either one of the two HB's.)
I'm going to end up wiring my best guess and then trouble shoot from there but my real question is if there is a way to maximize hum canceling when adding the mid pup to the mix ala Hastings' diagram (3 switches to allow for +, x, oop with the 5-way)
ChrisK: Regarding my choice to use the HB's as SC's... I originally wanted them so I could eliminate hum but, for my ear, there was very little discernable difference between the two pickups when used in HB mode. They're too midrangey/muddy in local series, and in parallel, the bridge didn't twang, and the neck wasn't warm. I'm sorry that I don't have better words to describe it, but it just didn't sound like a Tele. So I decided to use them as singles. I used the bridge pup as a SC when I mocked up the guitar before lacquering the body, and it sounded far better than either of the hum canceling options. (Too bad I didn't try those before puting it all together)
Aaron - I see what you're after now. Sorry I didnt get it before. Your diagram was fine for pointing out which coils you were looking to combine, which is what you did it for. But it looked enough like a really bad wiring diagram to twist my mind! - I was susceptable to this possibility having seen some very bad ones (not here of course!).
I think you can sort your switching out to get what you want, but it may mean going back a step or two.
So the first thing, if you havnt already done it, is to figure out the more powerful of the two coils in each Hb. A listening test should do it, even with just a screwdriver tap if they are not installed. Those will be the coils you want to select in your single pup modes, positions 1 and 5, if you dont want to have the full Hb.
But to get the humcancelling in the modes where a mid single is introduced, with M either in or out of phase would make it very difficult to achieve optimum hum cancelling. Basically, operating the mid would need to also reconfigure the N and M coils. Too much switching needed.
A better option would be to put one of the Hbs in the M position. Operating the M phase switch would, instead of just reversing a single M coil, it would swap to the other M coil, in the reverse direction. Thats still easy to do with the current 2-pole switch. That way, M in or out of phase always produces hum in the same direction, and can be configured to be always opposite to that from either of two similar single N or B coils.
So for the N and B, you would have one single coil and one stacked Hb (cut to single coil). That is enough to select humcancelling N/B combos in positions 2, 3 and 4. You'd want your true single coil pup to be RWRP with the best coil of the Hb. it may be that your current mid pup will do that, or it may need to be an old neck or bridge Sc, (or the M pup with magnet flipped and leads reversed)
Adding the M to either N or B, in positions 1 and 5, will then always be hum cancelling
For N and B, which should be the Hb and which the Sc? You can choose. Id guess the sound will be somewhat baised towards the sound of one or other, and its not obvious which without listening.
When you then add the mid pup to combos 2, 3 and 4, you will be adding a single coil to a pair which have cancelled their own hum. So you will be adding one dose of unbalanced hum. But it won't be too bad, since 1 x hum will be diluted across the output of three pups. The only way to fix that small residual hum would be to bring the mid pup in as an Hb, in positions 2, 3 and 4 only, but that is probably too complicated.
last comment - when talking about humcancelling in these setups involving different pups and coils, the optimum achievable may not be perfect cancellation, but it should be much less hum than for a single coil.
Hows that? does it make any sense?
If anyone can see a better way, please chip in. Also, it will of course require a different wiring for the 5-way. If anyone wants to try please do, I'll be unable to work on it for a week or two, but I believe its possible, and maybe best if the N/B switching on the 5-way is on the ground side of the M switching - hanging coils avoided with less switch poles needed. I'd ground the - end of the best Hb coil and the + end of the weaker Hb coil, using two poles in parallel to select one or two coils for hot from the N/B coils, and a third pole to select where the - end of the Sc pup goes to. That leaves the fourth pole still free to do cap switching as currently.
For this guitar I'm using Tele neck and bridge pickups and a strat mid. The tele pups are Seymour Duncan STK-T3b / STK-T1n Vintage Stacks.............................. Because of the RWRP of stock tele N & B pups, pos. 2 & 3 will be hum canceling.
I don't think so Sparky! These ain't stock Tele pickups. If they are hum canceling, you're just lucky.
These are humbucking pickups, therefore there was NO REASON on this third stone from the sun for them to be RWRP with each other (intra-pickup hum canceling is intrinsic and therefore requires no inter-pickup hum canceling), period.
AND (there's always an and), even tho one coil on each might be the loudest, there's NO reason for these to be RWRP (see above).
The problem is that these are 4 wire pups, and I don't know the polarity of the different coils in my stacked HB's.
No, but this diagram surely indicates that the black wire is the hot lead and the green wire is the ground lead for the coils in series.
Which coil goes to which wire set is not indicated anywhere. Send Duncan an email or call them. I'm not as familiar with Duncan's patents, so my detailed understanding of their stacked technology isn't.
Alright. I've done some more research (but not enough to figure this out myself)
The top coil in the stacks has the black and white wires, bottom coil has red & green. I'd like to have the following switching on my superswitch but I don't know if it is possible.
1. B&W of Neck pup 2. R&G of Neck + B&W of Bridge 3. R&G of Neck * B&W of Bridge 4. B&W of Neck *oop B&W of Bridge 5. B&W of Bridge
Again, I'm looking for maximum hum canceling, so I think this would get me there.
If someone can point me to a tutorial where I can learn how a 4 pole blade switch works then I will be more than happy to try and figure this out on my own. Please don't write to tell me how simple it is, or how stupid I am. I want to learn how to do this.
However, if one of you can see that this set up cannot be done for reason, please jump in to tell me why so I don't go crazy trying to solve an impossible puzzle.
The numbers by the handle show mechanical positions, and the numbers in each pole section (P54321) or (54321P) show which corresponding numbered terminal is connected to the "P" terminal within each section, at that position.
as always, you guys show me where (and how) I need to be clearer.
I know the lever positions and how they correspond to the terminals. The problem is that even with a dam n drawing in front of me (see below), I can't figure out what makes one thing parallel and another thing series. I mean, I did the whole series/parallel thing in grade school with tiny light bulbs, but ?!?!?!?!
I guess what I'm wondering is: How do the poles connect to each other?
I don't know...maybe it's time to let you guys call me stupid afterall
Hot dogs (frankfurters) in a pack of 8 are orientated in parallel with each other (side by side).
If one wired all of the wires coming out of one end of a dog to all of the neighboring packaged dogs at that same end (repeat for the other end of the pack), the hot dogs (er, coils) would be wired in parallel.
If one thinks of hot dogs as to how they come out of the hot dog making machine (end to end) them there hot dogs (coils) are wired (er, connected) in series.
We use the "+" sign to indicate the polarity of a coil (with respect to another coil) 'cuz were too lazy to stop using DC notation for AC phenomena (but it works).
Think of an AA battery (if you don't live in the U.S. you'll have to think of another cell size). Placed end to end, "-" to "+" creates a chain where the voltages add. If we reverse one cell, it is out of (DC) phase (?) with it's neighbor and subtracts from it.
I got it (I think), but how does that translate into the actual switch? And more importantly, how can I use that to make the switch do what I want?
Maybe someone could explain what's happening in the circuit vis a vis the black wire and the purple wire that connect different leads in the three poles used for pup selection. That might help me figure things out more.