putting two strat-pickups right next to each other

[gumby131]

hey,
i recently pulled apart a strat and have the electrics out of it.
what i want to do is put the two first pickups directly next to each other to make it look like a humbucker. (just for looks) i was wondering if i could do this and still be able to play it without any diferences in the sound.
any help would be great.

[jkemmery]

Well, if you were to move the middle pup over next to the bridge pup, any pickup combination that uses the middle pup, (2,3&4 on a standard strat 5-way) will sound different. Part of the reason that pickups in different positions sound different is because they are picking up different overtones and undertones from the string, (these are vibrations that are either higher or lower than the frequency of the note that is being played, and are the reason guitars sound like guitars and trumpets sound like trumpets, even when playing the same note in perfect tune). Most older strats only had one value pickup, the differend sound of each were acheived by placing them in different positions. Nowadays, we like to modify the values of pickups in the different locations to maximize the type of tone desired for that particular position. So, sorry to be so wordy, but no, it won't sound the same. If your bridge and mid pickups are very similar in sound naturally, you won't be able to tell too much difference between positions 1 and 3. If you like the look of a humbucker, why not just replace your bridge pup with a humbucker and wire up a coil tap for it? I've got a black GFS Fat brigde value pup I'll sell you fairy cheap, as I'm not using it. (Not that they aren't already fairly cheap.)

[Runewalker]

There are some physical issues to consider. Humbuckers are constructed with a bottom plate, usually brass, the fits the contour of 2 singles placed together, then rout the wires through a shielded cable at the one end of the two coils. Then a brass tab in the middle at each end is the mounting mechanism.

Strat pups however, have a base plate tab that protrudes from the side of the coil. They also typically, but not always, have staggered poles, where someone at some time decided different strings need more or less emphasis. So you would have to turn one of the pups 180 degrees to put them side by side, changing the stagger array. That may not be a big deal, depending on whether you play clean or distorted. But the size of the new joined base plates would potentially not fit in the rout of your guitar.

Strat pups have end mounted tabs that you will now need to drill 2 or more holes into your pickguard to mount. Strat pups have separate covers, you will need to either accomodate these separate covers in your conversion, eliminate them, which means cloth tapping the exposed coils, or fashion a new cover out of somthing (beats me) the covers both coils.

This would be a lot of trouble if all you want is a humbucker .... appearance? finally, don't forget if you want actual humcancelling, that one of the coils must be RWRP, and humbuckers are wireed in Local series, whereas the 2nd and 4th position of a Slappy-5 lever switch put them in Local parallel..... well actually that switch is a System Parallel, but that is symantics relative to this combo.

[vonFrenchie]

Couldn't you just grind down or cut off the tab that the wire is threaded through so the pickups will fit together properly.

Also if you wanted the humbucker sound and still wanted each as a single coil you could use a Super Switch.

[Runewalker]

vonfrenchie said:

Couldn't you just grind down or cut off the tab that the wire is threaded through so the pickups will fit together properly.

Also if you wanted the humbucker sound and still wanted each as a single coil you could use a Super Switch.

Yes, you could, and then the pups would fit within the body rout. Of course they would no longer produce signal since the outcroping tab base is the "circuit board" for terminating the ends of the hair-fine coil wire, and when you grind it down the ends of the coil wires will be catching air.

[sumgai]

runewalker said:

vonfrenchie said:

Couldn't you just grind down or cut off the tab that the wire is threaded through so the pickups will fit together properly.

Yes, you could, and then the pups would fit within the body rout. Of course they would no longer produce signal since the outcroping tab base is the "circuit board" for terminating the ends of the hair-fine coil wire, and when you grind it down the ends of the coil wires will be catching air.

J and Rune,

vF called it correctly - look at what gumby131 said initially (emphasis added):

gumby131 said:

hey,
i recently pulled apart a strat and have the electrics out of it.
what i want to do is put the two first pickups directly next to each other to make it look like a humbucker. (just for looks) i was wondering if i could do this and still be able to play it without any diferences in the sound.
any help would be great.

The "differences in the sound" question easily translates to wanting to know how the close proximity of the magnetic structures might affect the output.

BTW, Rune, nice call on that staggered-pole thing when reversing for closeness, I probably would have missed that until I actually tried it.

HTH


sumgai

[ChrisK]

Wail,

While yer at it, MF has lefty reverse Strat pickups on sale.

DiMarzio told me some years ago that the magnetic fields are distorted to some degree by side-by-side single coil pickups. I have a project "in the oven" (which, since it's taken me three years not to build, I must not have turned on) with a Rio Grande Twangbucker.

www.riograndepickups.com/scart/ProductPage.asp?ImageLink=VTTWBAB&ProductName=For+Tele

If I ever finish not building it, I'll share my opinions of such topology.

undertones

Sub-harmonics?
Justification please.

[gumby131]

i play heavily distorted, with the pickup closest to the neck.
so your saying i could do this, but i have to turn the middle pickup around. or else pickup 1 and 2 will sound funny?

[wolf]

I believe the reason for the staggering of pickup poles is as follows:

• Notice the curve of the neck? (That is to say it is lowest on the edges (the E string regions) and highest in the middle (D & G strings).

• Notice the bridge? Fender's individual "saddle" bridges are generally set with the middle strings at their highest. (Gibson's Tune-O-Matic bridges are similarly set). This is to create a similar "action" for all the strings because the strings have to comply with that curved neck.

• the middle 2 pole pieces of pickups (particularly Fender's) are higher than the other 4 to make the middle strings have equal volume. Otherwise the strings would be higher over these middle magnets due to ... you guessed it - the curve of the neck and the curve of the bridge.

An unexpected consequence of the staggered magnetic polepieces is that it gives a characteristic sound to these pickups. (or so I've heard).

[michaelcbell]

If only the middle two pole peices are raised and equally so, flipping the pup won't change the response. if there is asymetric staggering, then you've got issues.

[sumgai]

Akshully, while wolf is correct as far as he goes, there's more to the story.....

When Leo first designed his pickups, strings of that day and age were much larger in diameter. He found that some of them tended to excite the magnetic field much more easily than others, so he "tuned" the magnet heights to compensate. That's why you'll see vintage (and faithful reproduction) pickups with a very low B string magnet. (And remember, he did all this hand-crafting by ear - there were no test instruments to do it for him, back in the 50's.)

It turns out that over the years, and as users migrated to lower gauge strings, the G became a plain instead of a wound string. That caused its magnet to become shrill-sounding, so the factory (Leo being long gone by then) also lowered that magnet's height.

For the most part, a gentle curve that follows the fret board radius is sufficent for most needs. A flat-across-the-face pickup will probably sound acceptable for most needs, but it does get obvious that something's lacking when you compare either of them side-by-side with a properly-staggered-magnet pickup.

In point of fact, the pickup's maker can do anything he/she/it/they want(s), so long as you the user like the final output - the tonality of the thing. You don't buy it for looks, right? ;D


sumgai

[UnklMickey]

Try to get some info on the PRS 513.
They did the exact same thing ................................... only different.
It's a HSH configuration using 5 SC pickups.

[ChrisK]

Try to get some info on the PRS 513

Tapping IS.

<>http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=3&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28paul.AS.+AND+%28reed+AND+smith%29%29&OS=an/paul+and+(reed+and+(smith))&RS=(AN/paul+AND+(reed+AND+smith))<>

This is a published application, not an issued patent. Drawings are not yet attached. My patent viewing tiff software won't display the normal patent view, so it's not in that format yet.

[Runewalker]

gumby131 said:

i play heavily distorted, with the pickup closest to the neck.
so your saying i could do this, but i have to turn the middle pickup around. or else pickup 1 and 2 will sound funny?

not so much that they will sound "funny" ... but I think the nature of this thread's discussion (beyond the esoterics of staggered tooled poles) is that what you are proposing can be done, but at an expense of a lot of trouble.... and custom fitting of the components into the bod cavity. No one mentioned you will have to custom cut a pickguard.

Given your preference for "play{ing] heavily distorted, and your previous statement of conjoining the 2 single coils for "looks" --- your easiest solution would be to get a high powered, ceramic magnet, humbucker. Wolf is fond of Dimarzio's X2N, and something in that direction would be easier and may make you happier.

Even if you go through the trouble of Simeasing the singles, you will probably need to mod it for local series if you like that sound. and a Humbucker comes that way in standard config.

[gumby131]

so can i do it?