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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 21, 2007 2:25:05 GMT -5
i basically woke up a couple of weeks ago with an urge to modify a guitar. i've never done anything like it before so i've been doing some research, including several hours of reading on this website. . so here i am after reading a post that was dealing with a mod similar to the one that i'm interested in. guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1187531996there's two things i want to accomplish. 1.) shield the guitar (via 'Quiet the Beast') and 2.) add the ability to choose n+b and n+m+b. i think i understand the shielding part just fine, i just ordered some copper foil today. the other part is where i had some questions. i was originally thinking of using a blender pot to accomplish the mod but i guess that would mean i'd sacrifice the bridge tone control and just have a master tone control, right? can somebody explain for me the advantages and disadvantages of doing this with a blender or doing it with a push/pull pot? i'd really appreciate it. i'm confident that i can do either modification, even with my limited experience with electronics and soldering (the only soldering i've done was last week when i decided to make a wave vessel), i just lack confidence in my ability to choose which route to take. i'm extremely eager to get started and i just need to know what parts i need (push/pull or blender pot, etc). i hope my writing isn't as scattered as my thought process. any help is infinitely appreciated. mason.
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Post by michaelcbell on Aug 21, 2007 6:18:31 GMT -5
Hello mason (shortening idiotetiquette seems a bit deragatory ) Before you even decide whether to use a blender or switch, there is one thing to consider: How are you going to get your combinations in the first place. A blender and a switch accomplish the same thing. A blender gives you the ability to...well...blend between sounds while a switch means you...well...switch between sounds instantly, but what are you turning on or blending with? The most 'normal' way to do what you're doing is to have the switch or blender turn on the Neck or the Bridge (you decide), independent of the 5-way. Let's say you choose to turn on the bridge. If you switch the bridge on, your 5-way now selects: pos 1 (up) - N+B pos 2 - N+M+B pos 3 - M+B pos 4 - M+B (normal) pos 5 (down) - B (normal) Likewise, if you choose a neck-on switch, your 5-way now selects: pos 1 (up) - N (normal) pos 2 - N+M (normal) pos 3 - N+M pos 4 - N+M+B pos 5 (down) - N+B Which you choose is really up to you, though I'll suggest that if you tend to play more with the bridge and M+B combos use a neck-on, but if you tend to play more with the N and N+M combos, use a bridge-on. So, as to which is better, a blender or a switch...That's really up to you. Here's how I see it: option 1 (blender): - Blends from and of the normal positions to your 'special' arrangements. Gives many cool (from what I've heard) blended options - Can't switch quickly - Takes a bit more planning to keep wiring 'nastys' away. option 2 (switch) - no blend options, but keeps things simple - can switch more quickly - a bit easier to keep clean in terms of wiring option 3 (my very quick non-tested hybrid method - uses a push-pull to turn on the pup and the pot as a volume for that pup) - can blend or switch - not sure how the wiring would work out, but conceptually it seems to work. Just some food for thought...dangit, now I'm hungry. -m
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 21, 2007 10:33:32 GMT -5
Mason (IE?) The biggest advantage, in my opinion, for you of using a blender mod is that you don't need any extra parts, just do some soldering, and it will allow you to get your feet wet without too much expense and time, no drilling a hole in the pickguard and it's pretty simple to follow. Here's a link to the schematic to the blender mod, ala Lindy Fralin style ... www.fralinpickups.com/images/blendschem2.jpgAll you really need to do is unsolder some wires and solder in a few more. This lets you blend in the neck pickup with the bridge pickup, which of course only works in positions 4 and 5. Positions 1-3 work as normal and your middle tone becomes the master tone. Of course the disadvantages, besides what was stated by MB, are that you would loose the second tone control (if that matters to you), and once you do it, you'll get hooked on modding and pretty soon you'll have as many holes in the pickguard of your project guitar as I do! Welcome and have fun.
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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 21, 2007 13:00:55 GMT -5
thanks to you both very much. to answer you MB, i play more with a neck and neck+bridge combo, so a bridge-on blender or switch would be the way to go for me. thanks for shedding light on that.
i'm kind of confused because MB is saying that the blender mod will be a bit trickier while JK is saying it's pretty simple. i took a look at the fralin schematic and it doesn't look too bad at all, and i'm ok with having a master tone instead of a second tone control.
ALSO, forgive me if any of these questions seem ridiculous, but i was under the impression that with a blender i would be able to blend in whichever pickup wasn't in the mix already (meaning if i had the neck selected with the blender at 10 i would have n+b, and if i had the bridge selected with the blender at 10 i would also have b+n, etc.) maybe i'm just a bit confused.
last question..for now-- if i do choose to do a fralin style blender mod, do i need to get a special pot to use for the blender or can i use the same one that is now the mid tone control?
thanks so much. mason.
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 21, 2007 15:01:06 GMT -5
Mason, There are different types of blender mods. Some will blend in the neck (or bridge, or mid, whatever) regardless of what position the switch is in. With the Fralin mod, it blends the neck with the bridge. "Deaf Eddie" has a mod posted to blend the neck in with whatever pickup combination is selected: www.deaf-eddie.net/drawings/strat-blender.jpgHe is using the mid tone as the blender control, or really like an independent neck volume. The upper volume would still be the master volume however, as the "blender" volume is connecting to it. You could use either tone control you like. Notice that with this mod, basically the wire coming from the left lug of the blender pot (when orienting the pot with the lugs down) is connecting to the left lug of the volume control. It's basically the same as the Fralin except in that one the the left lug of the blender is wired back to the bridge lug of the 5 way. You may prefer the Deaf Eddie method. There are more complicated blender schemes than these that would require special pots and more soldering and wiring, which are probably the ones MB is referring to. I'm not really familiar with those, maybe MB can explain which one's he was referring to. You should be able to utilize your existing pots, with a word of "caution" that the tapers of your tone pots may be different than the tapers of your volume pot. Almost all volume pots are what is referred to as "Audio" or "Log" (standing for "Logarithmic") taper. whereas often Linear taper pots are used for tone controls. Either will work, but, the effect will vary for any given position of the control, for example, the volume of the blended pickup, if the blender pot is a linear pot when the control knob is in position 5 may not be nearly half of the actual volume. Using a linear pot, "half" volume will actually be closer to "9"; the control will be very sensitive between 8 and 10 and provide little noticeable effect for the rest of the sweep of the knob. Personally I'm beginning to prefer to use Audio pots for both volume and tone, but that's getting off the topic a bit. Alright, I hope this helps and let us know if you have any other questions.
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Post by warmstrat on Aug 21, 2007 15:09:45 GMT -5
I've done a very similar thing before... here is the thread where it was born... www.guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1183677132in my experience there, i found that using the standard pot (currently used as a tone knob) works alright, but it tends to function more as a switch (as i remember someone smarter than me explained it scientifically) as you get very little blending range out of a standard tone pot before all the hearable signal from your blended pup is lost in the mix. again, read the original thread... :-) I'm afraid i cant recommend an alternative, as that was my only experience of these things. P'raps someone will come along and help us out here. on the other hand, using the existing pot is great as it makes your mod virtually cost-free! (a plus for low-budget students like me) good luck!
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Post by warmstrat on Aug 21, 2007 15:15:39 GMT -5
ooh, simultaneous post! often Linear taper pots are used for tone controls. not as far as i know... in fact i'm under the impression that audio taper knobs are the standard for all guitar controls... however my tone knobs are another kettle of fish altogether. WHEN they work, almost all the reduction in tone occurs suddenly between about "2"and "3", with the rest of the sweep being pretty much useless. but it's an old guitar due for restoration and re-wiring anyway, so let's not confuse the issue...
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 21, 2007 21:34:11 GMT -5
www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.1basicwiringfaqs/#q2We're both wrong. It looks like I had it backwards ... very common for me to do and I've never been diagnosed with lysdexia ... According to the link, Volume controls can either be Audio or Linear, whereas Tone control are generally always Audio. The bottom line is that IE(Mason) should be fine using his existing tone pots for blenders ... Well, if you were feeling adventurous, you could test the taper and use the opposite kind ...
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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 22, 2007 15:15:20 GMT -5
thanks and thanks and thanks again.
i think the deaf-eddie mod seems to be a good one for my first so i'll give it a go. real quick though, i was just wondering how one would go about changing this mod so you blend in the bridge instead of the neck. i've been staring at the diagram for nearly half an hour and i can't even think straight (school just started back up for me today--that's my excuse). so if anyone wants to hold my hand a little longer and walk me through this question that would be great. thanks again for taking time to instruct. i'm super stoked to get started.
mason.
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 22, 2007 15:36:23 GMT -5
I.E.Mason,
Looking at the Deaf Eddie mod, you see the pickups at the top of the page. From left to right, they are Neck, Mid and Bridge. The hot, or positive wire leading from the bridge is white, and connects to a lug on the 5-way switch. Then, another wire which looks to be beige or light yellow (I'm a tad color blind) connects from the same lug on the 5-way as the white bridge pup wire to the center lug on the blender pot. Now notice the bridge pickup on the far right top of the picture, and how it has a black wire connecting to a lug on the 5-way switch. To get the mod to blend in the bridge, you would connect the beige wire that connects to the center lug of the blender pot to the lug on the 5-way that the black wire from the bridge pickup connects to instead of the lug that the white wire on the neck pup connects to.
Let me know if that wasn't clear, I may be able to draw up a diagram. Good luck.
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 22, 2007 15:55:51 GMT -5
As I had posted here (somewhere here) a few weeks ago, the taper of the pot isn't the issue with single pots used as blenders (you still need an audio or logarithmic taper) but the direction (for CW to be full-on). Blenders for the right-handed on right-handed guitars need left-handed audio taper pots. Otherwise, they work like switches. I have a wiring scheme afoot for my bro' in law that uses a variation of my S-None wiring (no phase push pulls) with a regular Fender 3/5-way switch (it's the SAME switch, just with different numbers of mechanical positions) that gives the normal Fender Strat pickup selections as well as some series and series/parallel combinations when the volume push pull pot is pulled out. guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1163395682The neck tone pot has a push pull switch as well that converts the neck tone pot to a master tone pot and converts the bridge tone pot to a blender pot (blending in either the neck when the bridge is selected, or the bridge when the neck is selected). This bridge tone/pickup blend pot is a dual element blend pot that has both a normal and a reversed taper section, and will hence work well as an analog (as opposed to a switch-like) blend control. It's a work in progress. This means that I don't have the drawings finished yet. Use the dual element blend pot's reversed taper section if you want one tone pot to be a permanent blender. www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-4137.html
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Post by sumgai on Aug 22, 2007 16:01:32 GMT -5
One diagram, coming right up! That should illustrate what jake said above. Simply cut the wire located under the "X", and move the stub over to the same terminal that has the Bridge pickup's wire. All done! ;D Good luck! HTH sumgai
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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 22, 2007 17:27:14 GMT -5
well that was simple beyond belief! i guess i could have figured it out myself if i had a better understanding of the workings of a pot. i did read the basic rundown of how guitars work on the stewmac site. thanks again everybody for the help and i think i have all the info i need to get busy. i'll let you know how it turns out and hopefully before long i'll be able to contribute to others projects like others have done for me.
thanks again.
mason.
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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 22, 2007 22:12:35 GMT -5
i lied. another question.. since i'm doing the quiet the beast mod and my pickups ground wires will be going to the ring instead of the volume pot, do i still need to solder the ground jack to both the tone and the blender pot as in the diagram (the green wire)? or would it be sufficient to run it from the star ground joint directly to the output jack?
thanks again. and again.
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 23, 2007 10:20:27 GMT -5
You should run it to your star ground.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 23, 2007 11:20:09 GMT -5
IE,
I almost edited jkemmery's post above, but I wanted to add more.
He should have emphasized that "You should run it only to your star ground."
The diagram that you linked (and that I modified) was not intended for a star-ground system, it is a basic wiring scheme that is thorough in it's own right, but a step below the star-ground scheme in terms of safety and hum reduction. If you are doing the QtB modifications, then simply eliminate all of the green wires from the previous diagram, and replace any ground connection with a wire to the star point.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by idiotetiquette on Aug 23, 2007 11:46:44 GMT -5
right on. that's what i supposed. just making sure.
i'm sure i'll be back with another foolish question sooner or later, but for now i'm set.
THANKYOUS! m.
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Post by michaelcbell on Aug 23, 2007 12:11:44 GMT -5
Mason,
I've been 'out of the office' for a day or two, but I see you've been well taken care of. I, as well as many others, am interested in how this goes for you. Let us know when everything gets kickin'
-Michael
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Post by idiotetiquette on Nov 26, 2007 1:36:46 GMT -5
ALAS!!!
i set off to accomplish this mod almost 3 months ago. it took me a couple of weeks to get all of the supplies i needed (shielding, new switch, etc...) and when i had everything ready to go...i just couldn't get myself to heat up the soldering iron. the guitar sat on my desk literally untouched with me saying "i should finish that this weekend."
well....THIS WEEKEND after a much needed break from school i got back to my apartment and decided the time had come. a couple hours later i was all done. i believe i am the world's greatest procrastinator.
NOW...just a couple of questions. first of all, the new pickups i bought sound a whole lot better than the stock ones (it's a made in somewhere-not-america squire...i wouldn't dare do my first mod on anything better). second, i was a little bit confused by the switch i bought from stewmac. the diagram (above) shows the left terminals are positioned ahead of the right ones, but my switch had the terminals on the right side positioned ahead of the left. after staring at the switch and examining it i decided that the neck pickup connected to the bottom terminal on the left (because my logic told me that the top left terminal was connected to the bottom right terminal), the middle pup connected to the second terminal up, and the bridge connected to the third terminal from the bottom. i connected the wire from the blend pot to the same terminal as the bridge pup as the diagram shows. all of my other wiring is exactly the same as the diagram.
for some reason, the pot that should be a blender acts like a master volume. when it is at zero, there is no sound, no matter what pickups are selected. the tone control works fine and the volume also performs its duties. i can't figure out why the blender doesn't work, is it because of the way i wired the switch? that's all i can figure. if anyone can help me figure this out, i'd really appreciate it.
my apologies for being away so long. and thanks for everyone who helped me get this going.
xo. mason
p.s. also, i forgot to insulate the star of wires with electrical tape the first time i tried to play the guitar. i guess it shorted because no sound came out when i plugged it into my amp. but i tried playing a different guitar in the amp and still no sound. is it possible that my guitar shorting out is responsible for my amp not working now? i hadn't touched the amp for about a week while i was on vacation so something else might have happened to it...opinions? (i insulated the star and it no longer shorts.)
LAST THING... there is still a slight buzz on all of the pickup selections except for the 4th (m+b) which sounds super super clean. i have no clue what i might have done wrong... again, i am at the mercy of the experts.
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