dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 17, 2007 2:50:28 GMT -5
I have spent the past 3-4 hours trying to educate myself on guitar wiring and electric circuits in general and I'm coming up slightly (maybe very) short of my goal.
What I want is what I consider to be a rather simple goal, a stratocaster wired so that positions 2 and 4 are the same pickup combinations as a stock strat but in series rather than parallel (and perhaps position 3 being all 3 in series now that i think of it, though the output volume might be pretty crazy).
What started this was noticing how humbucker pickups have a remarkable volume increase over single coils and wondering why that increase didn't apply to my strat when using two single coils at the same time, and of course I found that out, its the difference of series and parallel.
Then I of course found many wiring diagrams that included parallel and serial connections, but none that seemed to fit my needs or desires. In all my time playing my strat I usually just use positions 1 and 5 making the other 3 positions rather pointless. I'd like some other options and getting some higher output humbuckingish sounds would be fantastic.
I'm not a complete novice to guitar wiring, I have replaced pickups and wired a guitar from the ground up using schematics, but at the time I had no idea the reasoning behind why I was soldering which wires where. Since then I have learned the basics of circuits and the function of pots and I have a basic understanding of the 5 way switch on my guitar (thanks in no small part to the original guitarnuts site and the stewart mcdonald link stickied here).
If no one wishes to respond with a detailed wiring diagram for me (which would also rock ;P) I would be happy to see a response that included the missing info I need to design it myself.
Thanks to any helpful response.
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 17, 2007 14:43:15 GMT -5
Nobody's yet welcomed you so, there you go... I mean, WELCOME! I agree (from your other post) I think you'll enjoy this community, as long as you can stand some gentle ribbing, the occassional long-winded reply that goes way over your head and beyond the question at hand, and quite a lot of twisted tangentiation. You might even learn something. Starting with this - your post above has got things backwards. The standard wiring scheme for a strat is parallel. The two coils that make up a humbucker are generally wired in series with one another, which causes that bit of extra output (among other things). So, I'm thinking you're actually looking for a way to wire the pickups in series in the "in-between" positions. I'm afraid you won't find a way to do that with you're standard 5-way strat switch. Reason for that being that it's actually 3 position switch with stops in between where both contacts connect (in parallel) at the same time. You'll need a switch which actually has 5 positions, and at least 2 poles. Look around here and you'll find plenty of suggestions on how to realize what you want, and likely a whole lot more. Since you say that you never use the middle pickup or any of it's combinations, I'm thinking you'd be happier with a tele . Or you could just not connect that middle pickup (maybe replace it with something like a sustain driver - see 4real's posts) and use this diagram, to get neck, bridge, and series and parallel combination of both (not in that order). Okay, I think I've worn out my parentheses buttons, so I'll stop.
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 17, 2007 15:28:56 GMT -5
hah yes i did have my serials and parallels mixed up, but god no I wouldn't be happy with a tele I may only use two of the three pickups but aesthetically I can't stand teles, the headstock seems unmanly to me (my strat actually has the 80s style hugified headstock). Also I love my whammy bar and floating bridge. And that schematic is definitely something to consider, and I will for sure check out 4real's posts, really.
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 17, 2007 16:14:54 GMT -5
Well, I guess I'm glad I left out the comment about the Rickenbacker!
Anyway, I know a couple guys. They plays these rough kinda chickenwire in front of the stage kind of honky-tonks. They'd probably take offense at your suggestion that the tele is somehow unmanly. You could be in some real trouble. Especially if they've got one of their friends Jack or Jim* around to egg them on.
*Daniels and Beam, respectively.
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Post by wolf on Dec 17, 2007 16:55:30 GMT -5
Hello dressner Well if you are just interested in series and/or single pickup sounds then you can easily build a circuit with just 3 SPST switches: www.1728.com/guitar.htmScroll down about halfway and look at that diagram for 3 Single Coils Wired In Series. (Oh by the way, that is my website).
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Post by ChrisK on Dec 17, 2007 23:16:19 GMT -5
The truly manly amongst us use the Mike Richardson wiring with phase. I highly recommend it AND, it's one that I didn't design! Actually there are many ways to do this kind of stuff. The real test is whether or not you have to look at the "gearshift(s)" (and switches) whilst you are "driving".
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Post by wolf on Dec 18, 2007 11:05:54 GMT -5
Heck, I figured I might as well post the image right here:
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 18, 2007 13:49:31 GMT -5
Yeah I like wolf's simple design, I could replace the 5 way on my strat with three simple toggle switches. And believe me I saw your site before posting here your basic electricity page and guitar page are great. My problem is taking an electrical diagram like those (which I now understand thanks to you) to getting an actual wiring diagram. Basically the main issue where I don't understand is the tone controls and how the circuit works around that area. I could get out the soldering gun and wire it up without tone controls no problem (but it would sound terrible). Basically right now I have a small mod on my strat that allows the tone control for the middle pickup also work for the bridge, and I'd like to keep that, or maybe if it's easier have a master tone and the third pot could be disconnected (or used for something else fun). And ashcatlt, do they actually do the chicken wire thing outside of the blues brothers movies? I don't go to many places like that And I don't really mean a tele is unmanly, it just doesn't look like a guitar for me. I know lots of manly guys play teles, I (sorta) liked Vince Gill at both Crossroads Festivals. As for rickenbackers, those I actually do like, I probably wouldn't ever have one as my main axe, but they are different enough to be pretty cool. And finally ChrisK, just looking at that makes my head spin I'd shoot myself before I got something like that wired, and thats WAAAY more than I need or want, I'm not interested in any sort of out of phase deals. Thanks for all the help guys.
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 18, 2007 13:57:52 GMT -5
Oh and where do I buy the little SPST switches that fit nicely in the former 5 way slot?
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 18, 2007 14:00:03 GMT -5
Heh I was under the impression that it was not possible to do what I wanted with the stock switch as it is really a 3 way with stops in between?
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Post by sumgai on Dec 18, 2007 14:04:45 GMT -5
dressner, Hi, and welcome to the NutzHouse! ;D You're correct, the standard 3-way switch (modified to hold 5 positions) won't give you what you want. A true 5-way switch would do the job, but since you are willing to experiment, you can find mini-toggle switches at a number of suppliers. Start by perusing this list: The ListHTH sumgai
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 18, 2007 14:09:34 GMT -5
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 19, 2007 3:28:07 GMT -5
these sites, its hard to tell scale, in this computer drawn image, this is the scale id be happy with Can someone just link me to appropriate sized switches and give me a wiring diagram? I know im asking to be hand held through the process but I really think I'm on to something sound wise, and first and foremost i'm a guitarist, not an electrician. Though I welcome any and all knowledge in both fields, I am out for the best tone in the easiest way. And without a doubt if I get a cheat sheet to complete the mod I want for my strat and I don't 100% understand what I did, I will still research until I do understand. I don't like being in the dark in anything, regardless of complexity. Do they have those micro SPST switches at most radio shacks? I have two in my area I can try, but they charge a metric a ton for everything i've ever bought from them. You guys are effing fantastic, more than I ever expected was out there as far as obscure guitar wiring. All I'm doing is begging for a bit more free info, tomorrow is my last free day off for at least a couple weeks, so I'd hope to at least get started then. Also being in eastern time zone on this forum is sort of silly, I wish there was a personal option to change time zone.
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Post by wolf on Dec 19, 2007 3:30:04 GMT -5
dressner I could help you by drawing another diagram that shows the actual wiring. (Let me know the pickup wire colors). And although someone hasn't said it yet, the pickups have 2 wires and a ground correct? If not, then the wiring would not be possible. I have ordered from DeMar Electronics. Yes, their website is annoying and I've told them that. However, they have low prices and you don't have to pay $5 per switch which is what you'd actually pay for them elsewhere (even Radio Shack). As far as volume and tone controls, I rarely ever wire in a volume control anymore. (I no longer perform on stage so it is much simpler to adjust the volume right at the amp).
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Post by sumgai on Dec 19, 2007 11:11:18 GMT -5
dressner, I modified your profile to make it show you EST, is that the correct time zone for you? You can do this yourself, just go up to the very top of the screen on any page, and click on the "Profile" link.... look about half-way down for "Date and Time". And for the record, what's your beef with Demar Electronics's website? I find their selection to be "lacking" for most of what we need, and the descriptions of their mini-toggle switches could be better, but the website itself is fine by me....... HTH sumgai
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 19, 2007 11:49:53 GMT -5
My pickups only have two wires! Are you sure that this config won't be possible? Without looking under the hood, the only current wire color scheme is black for ground. And I do need a volume and at least a master tone knob. And thanks again sumgai, I did click on profile before complaining to see if I could change my time zone but missed the modify link at the top of the page. As for Demar Electronics, I don't know what browser you use sumgai, but the text blinks! That is likely the most annoying thing ever, and the title of the entire site is New Page 1, meaning someone made it in front page or basketweaver, and can barely even design a site THAT way. I'm sure I'd have a heart attack if I looked at the actual HTML, but I can't even stand looking at the actual site...
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Post by wolf on Dec 19, 2007 12:17:00 GMT -5
dressner Okay you still might be able to wire it into the series circuit. If the ground wire is black what is the color of the other pickup wire?
I think I'll need someone more knowledgeable here. What if the two wires emerging from the pickup are both regular insulated wires and not that bare, braided, shielded cable crap? Would that series wiring be possible? (I think it might be).
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 19, 2007 12:25:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the other wires are colored but when I got my SCN pickups I wired them in using this diagram And they were regular insulated wires.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 19, 2007 13:52:24 GMT -5
dressner, Two-wire SCn pickups? Must be very early units. But that won't affect anything, you can still do the serial mod just fine. The reason we ask about the number of wires, shielding, etc. is that when you disconnect a pup from ground, and instead put that wire on another pup's hot lead, you are in fact increasing the chances of introducing hum or buzzing. The reconfigured pup will act like an antenna, compared to just one pickup's hot lead going straight out to the amplifier. If a pickup is well-built, and if the guitar's cavity is well-shielded, then the chance of extra hum/buzz is greatly reduced, perhaps down to inaudible. (Such as on my own Strat with SCn's.) But as usual, YMMV. ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Blinky lights? Say it ain't so! I have a program installed (and have been using for years, like maybe 8?) that cuts that crap out before I ever see it. Ads of all kinds, security risks, privacy invasions, it's all gone - just pure, sweet browsing, none of the idiocy. If you're interested, let me know. (Ditto for anyone else.) HTH sumgai
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Post by ChrisK on Dec 19, 2007 14:53:44 GMT -5
Sorry, my point in pointing you to this scheme wasn't to induce an aneurysm, but to show you the most logical layout of the combinations. With the volume push pull pot knob down, the relatively Strat combinations are the normal ones. Bridge Bridge + Middle (parallel) Bridge + Neck (Tele-like, not the Strat middle only) Middle + Neck (parallel) Neck With the volume push pull pot knob up, the combinations are; Bridge + Middle + Neck (parallel) Bridge * Middle (series) Bridge * Neck (Tele-like, but in series) Middle * Neck (series) Bridge * Middle * Neck (all three in series) It would be possible to wire a 5-way superswitch for the following; Bridge Bridge * Middle (series) Bridge * Neck (Tele-like, but in series) Middle * Neck (series) Neck or Bridge Bridge * Middle (series) Bridge * Middle * Neck (all three in series) Middle * Neck (series) Neck My appreciation for the MR scheme is due to its logical ease of use. If you have three switches, you have to operate three switches. Phasing occurs before the MR wiring scheme and is independent thereof. If one MUST use three switches I like this one. You can see the three toggle switches and the typical Strat layout if used. Again, phase switching is independent of the wiring scheme (it's "upstream"). The Tele implementation has a lot of switches since it also had piezo pickups and was used as a tester for everything possible.
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 19, 2007 16:13:41 GMT -5
gah i guess it had been a while since I'd looked at the wiring, my pickups do indeed have three wires. all three have a green and a black, and the + wire for each is white, yellow, red from neck to bridge. Yeah having one 5 way switch would be neat, 3 little switches is a bit more clumsy, but as long as i don't accidentally switch all three off on stage doing a slide or windmill or just general jumping around like Angus I see no real problems . Plus I stopped by radio shack today and found 3 perfectly sized SPST switches for like $2 a piece. So all I need is a little help with the wiring diagram and my friend with the drill to come over and make some holes for the switches (I even have a spare pickguard to practice on).
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Post by wolf on Dec 19, 2007 17:07:57 GMT -5
Okay, I made a quick diagram for you. (I'm at work at the moment). When I have more time, I can put in more "parts" such as the volume & tone controls, capacitor, the green ground wires, etc. Of course if someone else wants to contribute, that's fine with me.
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Post by ChrisK on Dec 19, 2007 23:36:47 GMT -5
Ok, I have to say it. You are now the proud "owner" of the Brian May switching scheme! All that you need are phase switches and you're firmly in "Big Red" territory.
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 19, 2007 23:49:25 GMT -5
Ok thanks guys for all the help so far, but I'm not quite there! Thats all I'm positive on so far. I got my switches and got them in the pickguard I'm just unsure of how to finish it up... Also I know my MSPaint skills are impressive so lets see if one of you can edit that and finish it up and make it look as good as my work ...please! I can't wait to get this in and working and take her for a spin I'm stuck playing my Ibanez at the moment. Nothing against them really, but it was my first guitar and I only paid $150, and everyone knows you get what you pay for. Anyway I'd so appreciate it if one of you guys can finish that .gif up for me, Thanks!
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Post by ChrisK on Dec 20, 2007 0:17:07 GMT -5
So, two of those pots are tone controls. Hmmmm.............. I wonder where they go? Just a thought.
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 20, 2007 0:46:59 GMT -5
hah honestly i have no idea, i want one to cover the neck pu and the other to cover the middle and bridge, on a stock strat i see they are wired together, and that confuses the hell out of me
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 20, 2007 1:35:02 GMT -5
I did update it some...
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 20, 2007 3:11:48 GMT -5
Ok I fixed the error on the white wire to the first tone pot, and the green wires are a huge guess, but here's hoping im right. ...and going to bed and letting the solder fumes clear up. Hopefully one of you will confirm or deny the rest of my diagram by the time i wake
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Post by wolf on Dec 20, 2007 3:22:18 GMT -5
I did a bit of redrawing the older one (Reply#26 and NOT #27): I was trying to draw individual tone controls for neck and bridge but it seems to me, each control would affect the other. How about just 1 master volume and one master tone?
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dressner
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Post by dressner on Dec 20, 2007 4:53:34 GMT -5
Ugh, who was i trying to kid? I didn't go to bed but instead finished wiring the last diagram i posted, also i made an error in the wiring diagram, the two green wires should be on the left terminal instead of the right.
So is wolf's right and mine wrong? cause it didnt make a sound when i hooked it up, all the solder points look good, etc
Though I did accidentally break the switch arm off the middle switch, and just wired it in until i can go get a replacement when i wake up, I'm hoping thats the only reason it isn't working.
OK now i'm off to bed.
Thanks
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