Golden age pups

[stiggowitz]

I recently installed a set of "Stu Mac's Golden age " buckers in my "EPI" Paul standard.
I installed two 500k push pull pots for coil switching and everything seems fine, however I didn't replace the tone pots or the caps and am wondering if replacing them would make a difference.
I'm really happy with the increase in volume and tone quality of the buckers and the single coils but was too lazy or in too much of a hurry (or both) to replace the T/pots.
What do you think? are the stock pots and caps O/K or would I do well to change them out and which 500k's and caps would you recommend?
stigg.

[fenson]

Hi most , feel the stock epi pots are ok IMO you might want to wait untill they go bad if they ever do, Caps are caps little or no noticeable change will be heard unless you change their value.

[GuitarTechCraig]

"Caps are caps little or no noticeable change will be heard unless you change their value."

I disagree. Cheap caps that come on most lower-priced guitars are OK, but I find that rolling the tone down to zero gives you a very dead tone. Changing the cap to an 'Orange Drop", film-in-foil, or some of the higher end made-for-guitar caps will give you much more useable tones even is the values of the caps are exactly what the guitar came with.

[sumgai]

guitartechcraig said:

fenson said:

Caps are caps little or no noticeable change will be heard unless you change their value.

I disagree. Cheap caps that come on most lower-priced guitars are OK, but I find that rolling the tone down to zero gives you a very dead tone. Changing the cap to an 'Orange Drop", film-in-foil, or some of the higher end made-for-guitar caps will give you much more useable tones even is the values of the caps are exactly what the guitar came with.

Hmmmm, could it be that some small inductance is aboot? Perhaps more troublesome in your cheaper caps than in the expensive ones?

Because make no mistake, Capacitance is, as ChrisK would express it, and he'd only be paraphrasing the Ancient Mariners of our hobby/profession. If capacitance could change in the manner you describe, we'd never be able to use such devices, they'd be too unpredictable.

In point of fact, a circuit designer that doesn't take into consideration all the parameters of a device is only asking to be bit in the butt. There are more small-value parameters present in any electrical/electronic device than a body might imagine. And Mr. Murphy is just waiting to introduce them to you, one by one. ;D Inductive reactance is probably only the first on his list.

Besides, fenson's contention was well qualified with "little or no", meaning that some, if not most, folks refuse to play the Golden Ear game. They simply purchase, and happily use, what seems to be only common sense to their wallets.

For everyone's reference, there are some gems tucked away in this thread: Capacitors For Guitar, such as my particular favorite: 37 Bucks......¹ A related article, dealing more deeply with getting value for your purchasing dollar, can be found here: Cables and con men

HTH


sumgai


1. To paraphrase the late Bennett Cerf, "I love to quote myself, it adds credibility to my conversation!" ;D

[hammeroff]

There's a dude on eBay that takes a .1uF cap and wraps it in brown paper to make it look like an early Stratocaster capacitor.

Okay...I can see wanting the "original mojo."

But to the guys that say, "Wow, it really improved the tone...etc..."

...Placebo is.

[sumgai]

matt,

.......
Placebo is.

Priceless! +1 right there, and I'll bet I'm not the only one feeling so tickled.


sumgai

[ChrisK]

Placebo is

Hmmm, even more strangers in this strange land....

Cheap caps that come on most lower-priced guitars are OK, but I find that rolling the tone down to zero gives you a very dead tone. Changing the cap to an 'Orange Drop", film-in-foil, or some of the higher end made-for-guitar caps will give you much more usable tones even is the values of the caps are exactly what the guitar came with.

Yep, cheap capacitors are cheap fer a reason. Dielectric absorption (inability for all charge to dissipate back into the circuit quickly) rears its ugly head in the cheap ones and affects the frequency response. DA is why high voltage caps (uh, like the kilovolt ones) have a shorting wire across the terminals. Charge 'em up, discharge 'em, and later they still bite you.

Ceramic caps have a piezo-electric effect also. Charging them changes their physical size (microscopically), discharge involves the additional generation of a voltage from the size changing back. A piezo is a motor/actuator AND generator. Change its size (mechanically stress it) and it generates a voltage, drive it with a voltage and its mechanical size changes.

Oh, and cheap ceramic caps (and others) also have leakage which appears as a parallel resistance.

[UnklMickey]

I think the whole capacitor issue is a bit over-blown on both sides. I can't see paying big bucks for "bumble-bee" caps or anything else of that sort.
FIRST, a tone-cap is almost completely out of the circuit, when the tone pot is "on 10".
SECOND, some people actually prefer the sound of a ceramic and it's warts.
THIRD, there are plenty of decent caps, polyester, polystyrene, mylar, etc, etc, that don't cost an arm and a leg.

Did Leo start using ceramic caps, early on? If so, I guess you'd need to use a ceramic, to get the "Vintage Tone", whatever the hell that means.

I'll put my money in pickups and quality hardware, thank you.

[stiggowitz]

Thanks! I enjoyed the differing opinions. I really don't use the tone controls much as I like a brighter tone especially on stage.
It is nice to roll off the edge on a ballad, I do wish however that the controls wouldn't be so "on" or "off" when I do that!
Enjoy.
stigg.

[sumgai]

stiggowitz said:

Thanks! I enjoyed the differing opinions. I really don't use the tone controls much as I like a brighter tone especially on stage.
It is nice to roll off the edge on a ballad, I do wish however that the controls wouldn't be so "on" or "off" when I do that!
Enjoy.
stigg.

Now you know why I don't use a treble-retention cap/resistor across the volume control. Like you, I need all the cutting edge I can get, and back off only for the occasional buckle-shiner. I do that with the volume knob, and between 8 and 10, I get just what I need - softness without a huge drop in volume.

When I do need to cut the volume, which is often, I just use the floor pedal - no tone issues there.


sumgai

[ltb]

I can see where one can go a bit too far by paying big bucks for Bumblebee or other high dollar caps. While they might sound some better they definately do not sound enough different to warrant paying $25-60 each.
I can say that some caps do sound dead while others such as Mallory 150's or Orange Drops liven the sound up a bit and at only $1.00 or so a copy.