tony
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Post by tony on May 20, 2005 14:32:35 GMT -5
hi guys can some tell me. ???how this works. suppose I am playing a scale. for example g-scale that starts on the 3rd fret sixth string. now the g chord I play on the first note of the scale. is that my root or can i consider the end of the scale as root note.for example the 5th fret, 4th string. i get quite confused what would be the chords that i can create although i know most of the scale playing but i am week at the chord creation out of the scales. i just know chords by memory or shape....any advises..or techniques for this problem...regards/tony
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zionstrat
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Post by zionstrat on May 24, 2005 13:58:10 GMT -5
Tony- Great question and we could talk about this one for days (maybe we can:) Chord therory is a lot of fun and once you get good at it you will be able to see in real time how chords and scales overlap and this is why great guitarists mix teh 2 so seamlessly-
Ok, yep the G on the E can be a root, but so can the octave G- Let's start with how do you make a chord-
Take any note and call it root- Using that root, play a major scale- Pick the 1st 3rd and 5th (every other) notes to get the basic major chord- So a G major chord would be GBD- C would be CEG-
Now lets work around that root chord by building other chords within this same scale
So within the G scale lets build a chord on A- You would get ACE if I treat A as the root and take every other note- This happens to be Aminor and I will e
Now let's do a D chord still in the key of G- Do play a G scale and note that when you hit D you will them play E, F#, G, A- If you take D as the root, the third of the chord will be f# and the 5th will be A- This is a D major chord- Starting to see how you build a chord within the scale?
Now here's a big tip- Within the scale the quality of the chord depends on where it falls in the scale- Using G as example... I= Major=G major ii- minor- a minor iii= minor= b minor IV= Major= C Major V= Major= D major vi= minor= e minor vii= dimished= f#dim
So now you have a lot- We usually talk about chords by their position in the scale, so that you now know that the ii chord naturally falls as minor while the V chord naturally falls as Major- You are probably used to playing GCD progressions and this is the I IV V progression in the key of G and happens to be the 3 major chords in the key-
Theory is great because it works the same where ever you are- If you spell out a C chord, the notes will be differnnet, but the I chord will still be majopr and the iii chord will still be minor- In the real world, there are lots of chords that can be substitued from outside of the major key so they have to be handled differntly, but this covers 90% of the chords-
Back to your question about the root, lets say you spell the first G chord off of the G on the 3rd frett of the E string- You would get that G, the B on the 2nd fret of the A string and the open D, right?
Now add the open G string- You still have a G major chord-
Now leave out the low G so that you are playing B, D, G. Listen to it- It is still a G major chord however the root is the high G, not at the 'bottom' of the chord- This is an inversion and you can invert any chord- You could drop the low B and use the high B and now D would be the lowest note- But it's just an inverted D major-
There is much muich more we could talk about- how to spell the differnt 7th chords and why some chords progress better than others- But start here.. tale the scales you use every day (E, A, G, C, F for example) and figure out how to spell all of the chords for each key- Note which are major minor or dimished-
You will find that you have spelled E major in the key of E but eminor in the key of G- Look at the intervalls within them and figure out what's teh differnce in major and minor-
theres a lot more we can do, but how's this for a start?
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zionstrat
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Post by zionstrat on May 24, 2005 14:33:41 GMT -5
"But it's just an inverted D major"
Typo- Should have read "just an inverted G major"
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normus
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Bring it on!!! My Ninja skills will... Oh, never mind.
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Post by normus on Jun 21, 2006 23:32:24 GMT -5
Hi Tony. Yes, it's absolutely true. A simple G chord could be refered to as a G, Bsus#5 or a Dsus4(add6) and in certain circumstances you might even want to refer to them in this way. There's a logic to it that takes a while to explain. In fact, I've written a series of books for various instruments (including guitar) called "Chord Genius" books available on Ebay or off my website (below). Ebays a good place to check them out because you can check comments. As a stringed instrument player, I've taken this advanced concept and gone over it in plain language with my books. It's really easy to design or name any chord once you understand how chords work. The really odd thing is that few classical pianists can explain to you how to build a G#m13b5 chord. It's just not their way of approaching the musical world. It is for stringed instrument players who want to break out of their restrictive old chords. You don't need to be a jazz player to use advanced chords and their not particularly difficult to play. Does the chord name Em11 freak you out? Well, it shouldn't. Play all strings open and you've just played it. Odd, huh? The problem is that when most of us get to chord theory, you guessed it, all we can find is piano books. Here's a brief glimpse of how easy it all can be. Run a major scale and while you're running the scale, simply count from your starting note 1, 2, 3, 4.... (instead of doe rae me fa). Now play the 1, 3 and 5 notes at the same time. You've just played a major chord (this is much easier with diagrams). Now if you want to change that to a minor chord, simply take the '3' note down 1 fret to make it flat. You'll immediately recognize the minor flavor. Want to make a suspended 4 chord? Count through the scale again (or move up 1 fret from the original 3) and play 1, 4 and 5 together. There it is. A "6" chord? (G6, A6 etc), play 1, 3 and 6. It's really that easy. A progressive approach immediately applied is what the books are all about. I don't even bother with what chords are in what keys until later on (except for the key of C and G at the beginning of the book to get aspiring songwriters up and running). The big thing is in the understanding of chord structure apart from the keys and actually working your way through the hands on exercises. Which chords are in which keys are covered later on and you don't even need to know the note names in each chord, just how to run a major scale and count. The 3 notes in a G chord are G, B and D. A "G" chord where the '1' of your major scale is the G note is a G chord Those same notes considering the B note to be the '1' note is a Bsus#5 If you consider the D note to be the '1' note of your major scale forms a Dsus4(add6). It's all really simple once you know how. Zionstrat is correct in his explanations. He's just approaching it in a more traditional way. Unfortunately, I've found that people tend to struggle with 'traditional' methods when it comes to guitar because traditional tends to be the way classical musicians approach the subject and it is usually assumed you've already been through the groundwork. Hope I'm not breaking a rule here...
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 9, 2006 11:40:30 GMT -5
Wow. Cool post, normus. I've been playing for over 20 years (albeit by ear and tab), even had a couple of years of music theory in high school and still never looked at building chords up and down the neck in such simple terms. Especially in the context of tony's original question: which is the root? When I read that, my first thought was to post a quick explanation about every chord simply being made up of intervals between notes, etc. (as you said, a more traditional explanation). But even that approach, while true, still assumes you already have a solid understanding of the terms used (interval, root) and how they relate to each other vs. your approach that puts things into perspective from a non-classically trained guitarist's point of view. The really funny thing is, just last night I was watching some clips on YouTube from a guy in Singapore who's posted some videos of himself playing some cool fingerstyle versions of songs--arrangements he created himself--and I was thinking, "Man, how did he create those on his own?" (His YouTube ID is Jez Tan, I think). Then after reading your post, I realize (if I understand it correctly) that all he did was take the basic chord structure of the song and simply play it in new positions, with a few cool runs in-between chords, of course. Guess I'm just posting this to let tony know that the learning never stops and that it's really all about which method works best. Anyway, thanks for the cool chord theory lesson. I'm off to see if I can turn 20 years of muscle memory of rock licks into something a bit more substantial and fun.
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Post by dunkelfalke on Dec 9, 2006 12:12:20 GMT -5
sounds good, normus. i'll give your book a try.
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Post by lunaalta on Dec 9, 2006 14:47:16 GMT -5
Two very instructional posts there and both very understandable. Thanks I know something about the above but have never been able to put it in a frame, as it were. Now I can, thanks again, guys.
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