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Post by Runewalker on Jan 28, 2007 2:41:32 GMT -5
Periodically this forum discusses the notion of installing P-90s in a strat. The idea is sprinkled throughout the forum, and refereed to a couple of times here: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=pup&action=display&thread=1117163867&page=5OK I finally anti-ed up and performed the surgery and popped in the implants. I know now why you don't hear about this mod often. It is beset with numerous custom requirements. No tabs on the pups means no mounting on the pick-guard. No real wood substance in the strat pup channel, with the spring cavity routed, presents challenges for the P-90 normal system of mounting with foam pieces and wood screws. I moved through each of the various challenges, including some nasty hum issues, but without going through a play by agonizing play, let me introduce the: Midas Phaeton 90BeforeAfterThis an iterative form, since I did not have any gold hardware around, I just used what I had. To complete the call girl look, she will get a gold headstock and gold hardware. I may even roll out the gold leaf and do the pup covers to match that on the pick-guard. Wiring is JH's TM-II. How does she sound? A complete beast. The P-90s are just as you always read about -- single coil penetration and sparkle, but throaty and with a dose of midrange that avoids muddy but adds fullness. This array has given the strat some badly needed bawlz, further enhanced by the shredder neck. I'm no shredder, but the neck is beefier than the usual thin strat neck, and with the larger frets there is a substance in the feel to match the P-90s take no prisoners attitude. Everything from % Dale, to ventures, to Jimi (yes there is quack!) to country to Tele, and of course to Leslie West, to Angus and Pete Townsend, to many places strats will take you but much further. No it does not sound like a strat, nor does it sound like a Gibby with Humbuckers. A truly singular sound. Hope you enjoy, fellow Nutz. RW
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Post by ux4484 on Jan 28, 2007 14:11:43 GMT -5
heh...that threesome shot looks like you took it in Castlevania.
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Post by UnklMickey on Jan 30, 2007 11:58:19 GMT -5
golly Rune, i don't know if i'd call that a lily, but it sure is guilded!
Midas eh? no need to wonder what inspired you to give it that name.
nice job on the pickup openings. the pickups look like they've lived there all their lives.
just think if you would have squeezed one more in there, you could have had 2 pairs of p-90s.
imagine the possibilities.
2 HBs in parallel. (each HB comprised of 2 P-90s in series) OR a 4 P-90 all series combo..............yikes maybe that is taking it a bit too far.
anyway back to reality.
its probably a good thing the pickguard has some texture. if it were smooth, you might blind someone.
i'm not a fan of the Samick headstock, but i wonder if it just might look a little better, sharing the same Bling as the body.
cheers,
unk
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 30, 2007 18:47:30 GMT -5
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Post by UnklMickey on Jan 30, 2007 19:05:30 GMT -5
...Amongst these: I like this the best:... i guess that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors. i like #1 the best. although the pick lanes on 2 and 4 are more reasonable.
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 30, 2007 19:14:41 GMT -5
Well, on 4.
I was going to consider using a Duncan P-90 Stack in the neck but the excessive depth of its route into the neck tenon concerned me.
So, it will be the stock P-90s in the neck and middle (moved from the bridge) and a DiMarzio DLX Plus in the bridge (really a mid scooped humbucker like the Steve's Special). Should be kinda interesting in a mahogany (mid-pronounced) guitar. Methinks that a 12 position rotary switch will be needed in lieu of an operator's consol.
Paging Mr. Forstner, your bits are needed.....
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Post by UnklMickey on Jan 30, 2007 19:30:48 GMT -5
ya know Chris,
your guitar does look okay, and i DO like wraparound bridges.
but, it seems like it's lacking something.
maybe it could use the Midas touch too.
aw Rune, look what ya started!
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Post by Runewalker on Jan 31, 2007 0:48:56 GMT -5
just think if you would have squeezed one more in there, you could have had 2 pairs of p-90s.
imagine the possibilities. ....
its probably a good thing the pickguard has some texture. if it were smooth, you might blind someone.
I'm not a fan of the Samick headstock, but i wonder if it just might look a little better, sharing the same Bling as the body.
cheers,
unk I toyed actually with CKs idea on the Duncan stacked, as I have some Dimarzio HS series which when put into cut-coil mode are quite credible in authentic strat sound, yet somehow greatly diminish the single coil hum. Also there are hidden sound by combining the bottom coil with the top coil of another pup. So 4 of those (which would cost more than I have in this entire guitar) and that would be 8 coils to work with. Now GN2, would that be enough of a challenge on wiring designs. Also, I worried about the picking channels you mentioned. Turns out to avoid the whole "stratitus" phenom, you lower the pups anyway. IF you want closer pole contact ..... use the adjust-ables, a feature sorely missing on strat pups.. So in actuality the picking channels can be larger as the p90 cover can go down as low as the guard, and the small footprint of the adjustable pole line is smaller than that of a strat pup. The mid and bridge are closer together in order to get a stronger emulation of a humbucker at the bridge when both are kicked in in series, and the geometry between the neck poles and the mid poles are that of a strat to capture "Quack." And it does as designed. Go figure. Actually the pickguard is in fact not textured, but as smooth as glass. The gold leaf adds the texture, that is then filled with multiple layer of Poly, until smooth. Actually a quiet nice effect as the surface appears to have great depth, but doesn't. Yes I have to figure out a treatment for the Headstock. My first thought was gold to match the bod, but I toy with the gold leaf, because it is .... well ... extreme. The pointy Jackson style headstock was not always one of my favorites until you anointed the RWS SG, then it was a done deal. Absolutely ... pike the heathens. One thing about that neck, though, is it is fatter and more substantive than most Strat necks, and matches the richer midtones and bass of the P90s. I am considering seriously though the Duncans that CK mentions.
Have you tried them CK, and if so how is the cut coil sound with the top coil only?This migrated from a labor of love to one of curses, as every thing had to be fitted custom. eg, there is not enough meat in the pup cavity in front of the springs rout for those wood screws going through the pup covers to bite into. Had to use brass bushing inserts. Would I do it again? Probably, but maybe with a precut pickguard, and it would be easier with a hardtail. The gold happened because a friend wanted a gold strat. I picked up the bod, then we found him what he really wanted, a goldtop LP. So I sat on this awhile, going, "now what." Then the P90 vision happened. This thing is pretty over the top, as it should be. RW
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Post by UnklMickey on Jan 31, 2007 1:30:12 GMT -5
...The mid and bridge are closer together in order to get a stronger emulation of a humbucker at the bridge when both are kicked in in series, and the geometry between the neck poles and the mid poles are that of a strat to capture "Quack." And it does as designed. Go figure.... "i love it when a plan comes together." just gotta ask... when it comes to singles, is the middle the money tone? ...Yes I have to figure out a treatment for the Headstock. My first thought was gold to match the bod, but I toy with the gold leaf, because it is .... well ... extreme.... hmmm.....maybe.....both? since the body has a softer look and the pickguard a more hammered metal look, i wonder how that might translate to the headstock. the majority would be gold paint, but a crescent or sort of shape from the peak through the area where the logo is, might insinuate a blade. Scythe the heathens!
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Post by Runewalker on Jan 31, 2007 9:10:10 GMT -5
...The mid and bridge are closer together in order to get a stronger emulation of a humbucker at the bridge when both are kicked in in series, and the geometry between the neck poles and the mid poles are that of a strat to capture "Quack." And it does as designed. Go figure.... just gotta ask... when it comes to singles, is the middle the money tone? hmmm.....maybe.....both? since the body has a softer look and the pickguard a more hammered metal look, i wonder how that might translate to the headstock. the majority would be gold paint, but a crescent or sort of shape from the peak through the area where the logo is, might insinuate a blade. Scythe the heathens! Money tone: Well my real musician buddy is driving now so I have not spent enough time to settle in yet. Mid pup by itself and Mid/Bridge in series are slap-the-monkey tough. both get differnent versions of my favorite P90 tone --- Leslie West back when Felix was living. Now if I start eating 2 whole pizzas a meal for 6 months and achieve LW's profile, I'm sure I'll play like him ... unless it was his wack-fro, then forget it, because the folicles are starting to give out on me. I rarely use a strat bridge pup by itself, but the P90 fills out the mids so that this is a mean and nasty tone in the bridge alone, that cuts throught but doesnt ice-pick the ear drums. Other keeper tones: Neck alone: Big, bull, and not muddy. I have a couple of older JBL K120s I run the Twin brain through. These were used alot in PA boxes in the 80's and they have an almost hi-fi range of sound. The bass on the pups is very full and tight, not boomy at all, just an incredible presence with balance and depth. And the "single=coilness" of the P90s adds just enough under-spank to give nice note definition. Neck/Mid in Parallel. Aflac. Cool in clean settings. Little Wing with fullness. Neck/Mid and Neck/Mid/Bridge, SysSeri -- vol down a few notches, play with the tone ---- fifties jazz box --- ES175 al-la Kenny Burrell and Wes. Neck/Mid/Bridge, SysSeri -- Roll the blender toward the Mid/Neck, crank the overdrive. PowerChords to Metal Underworld. Those are the primaries. There a a bunch of other obscure tones with the blender and also the OoP, but the above are home bases. Headstock. both. Hmmmm you may be on to something. I have a little logo sort of like my avatar. So that in left and big enough to be the truss rod adjst. cover, metalic gold background. But that will wait a bit, as this thing messed with me trying to dial in all the issues. I want to just play it a while, and move through the parts inventory for some other builds. the hardware and headstock are secondary esthetics for now. RW
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 31, 2007 19:07:05 GMT -5
NO, THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE!........... Yes, a few years back in a pickup tester guitar. I did like the single coil sounds, especially since these are stacks that have the SAME magnetic footprint regardless of coil mode. I found the bottom coil to be somewhat "softer" than the top. With the series/either coil/parallel modes available, these are my favorite P-90s. ..........since I had the PRESENCE OF MIND TO BUY FOUR when MUSICIANS FRIENDS was blowing them out (as take-outs from surplus guitars) for $20 each several years back. And then.....
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Post by Runewalker on Jan 31, 2007 20:23:40 GMT -5
Ok, CK: I see your 4 or 5 coils, and raise 4 or 3 with the Duncan Stacked 4x and ,,,, and 12 switches: This would then be Midas Phaeton 90 X16-Z8. "...very impressive Rune.
but shouldn't that have more volume and tone knobs, too? .....
-Unk OK, OK.
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Post by UnklMickey on Jan 31, 2007 20:45:32 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Feb 2, 2007 4:49:36 GMT -5
Horse patootie! I'm in lust - satisfy me! ;D How much?
sumgai
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Post by JohnH on Feb 2, 2007 6:27:20 GMT -5
Well Ive been impressed with this Midas - and RW stuck at it until it worked, and it sounds good too. Nice to see more ToneMonsters, and this is the most monsterous to date.
Except of course for the Midas Phaeton 90 X16-Z8. I'm not going to give away the wiring secrets for that one yet,. We'll leave it as a puzzle for Unk and Chris to figure out how the series sat-nav with pop-up toaster control works
John
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Post by UnklMickey on Feb 2, 2007 11:15:45 GMT -5
...We'll leave it as a puzzle for Unk and Chris to figure out how the series sat-nav with pop-up toaster control works John already got that one sussed John. it's gold tooth er, i mean Bluetooth enabled.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 2, 2007 20:24:12 GMT -5
In regards to yer patooie, I believe I showed that body last year.
Unfortunately, I never bought it and someone else eventually did. It was an alder one-piece Wilkerson from Warmoth.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 3, 2007 6:02:36 GMT -5
Chris, Yes, and I lusted after it then, too! Offered you everything including my first-born, but it didn't work then, either. Too bad it got away, but then again, for the right amount of moola, Warmoth will build just about anything. sumgai
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