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Post by ccoleman on Apr 10, 2007 15:05:16 GMT -5
I had time on the weekend and did the proper expanding of the back control cavity in my Ibanez Roadstar II to make room for the huge 5-way Superswitch to fit into the correct position under the bridge pickup.. The black and the Tele feature makes her look a bit Johnny Cash if u ask me.. !!  Any suggestions on how to paint the front surface ?? I want to add some red, yellow, blue or green paint, without destroying any of the existing finish... It would be my first time painting a guitar. |
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Post by dd842 on Apr 10, 2007 15:32:58 GMT -5
ccoleman! Welcome back to you, sir!  You were the very first person to jump in and help me when I first came to this forum for help. Regrettably, I don't actually have any suggestions to offer you in return on this particular issue, but I did want to just dive in and say hey man! welcome back!  Dan |
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Post by ccoleman on Apr 10, 2007 16:03:12 GMT -5
THanks Dan.. I am happy u remembered me mate !!
True that... it's been a while since I showed up to talk shop here with my guitar nuts buds.. I blame it on the downer winter doldrums.. but with spring's return I feel much more full force... must get or build a light box for next year .. but I digress.
I am currently raring to go and solder up that J201 based JEFT preamp that the guys gave their input on and got me psyched up to do !!
Photos and sound samples will be forthcoming... My thinking is that... thru a tube overdrive, it should sound even sweeter than without.. because more harmonics going in means more harmonic distortion coming out of the tube !!! Hah!! ADA MP-1 warmed up and ready... LOL
Chris
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Post by dd842 on Apr 10, 2007 17:07:26 GMT -5
..... Any suggestions on how to paint the front surface ?? I want to add some red, yellow, blue or green paint, without destroying any of the existing finish... It would be my first time painting a guitar. hmmm ... now that I've picked up my second grader from school it got me thinking ... I don't know if this is going to work for you or not, but we go to Loomis and Toles (an artist supply store) here in Toronto to get all sorts of craft paints and stuff for her. The problem is the finish tends to be pretty flat once the paint dries, and is often not the most durable. But hey, maybe that's what you're looking for? So you may find something at an artist supply store in your area. I don't know if it will actually work with what you're doing but, if it is up your alley, you may find something that wouldn't be permanent, nor would it destroy the existing finish ... and you could probably even remove some of their products later. Could be worth a look? Dan |
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benjy304
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by benjy304 on Apr 11, 2007 21:42:57 GMT -5
I don't know about painting it, but a light-colored Sharpie marker could be used to draw a design on it, and I'm pretty sure it would remain glossy and stay put.
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Post by ccoleman on Apr 12, 2007 11:58:57 GMT -5
On further reflection... to add paint to this baby would cause the following effects.
I think that paint (which contains thinner) would dissolve thru the layers of clearcoat. So it really has to be a great paintjob!!!
And of course the entire front of the guitar with fresh paint would have to be covered in another series of 20 coats of clearcoat.
Has anybody done this before ??
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benjy304
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Post by benjy304 on Apr 12, 2007 14:58:51 GMT -5
A lot of artists in the 60's painted their guitars with various psychedelic designs (George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, etc.)
Unless your guitar's finish can be dissolved by paint thinner at all, not to mention at the low concentrations that are probably in in the paint, I really doubt you'll have too many problems.
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Post by ccoleman on May 9, 2007 12:34:55 GMT -5
Update: I tried a can of translucent red spraypaint, made for metal parts of a car engine, like when you want your valve cover to appear red. It is barely noticeable.. way to transparent, the black comes through as if the red topcoat wasn't even there !
Next step: to try some more opaque red paint.
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Post by dd842 on May 9, 2007 12:50:05 GMT -5
Update: I tried a can of translucent red spraypaint, made for metal parts of a car engine, like when you want your valve cover to appear red. It is barely noticeable.. way to transparent, the black comes through as if the red topcoat wasn't even there ! Next step: to try some more opaque red paint. E for effort, at least The translucent paint sounds really cool in theory ... I am not clear on what look you want in the end ... and I am not the guy doing the work either, so this is just a thought  ... ... but I wonder what would happen if you sprayed on a similar white translucent paint, or even a white paint with tiny metal flakes in it for a shimmer effect, and then sprayed the translucent red over that, so it would show up better, but still be translucent red? Just a thought ... Dan |
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Post by dd842 on May 9, 2007 15:30:29 GMT -5
Chris, I thought you might get a kick out of this ... I just came across it on Craigslist. You know, just in case you want a model to really fashion your guitar after. LOL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- toronto.craigslist.org/msg/327134765.html Fender Stratocaster George Harrison Rocky Beatles Guitar - $500 Reply to: sale-327134765@craigslist.org Date: 2007-05-09, 3:52PM EDT This is a Fender Squire Bullet hand painted to replicate George Harrison's Rocky Phychadelic Stratocaster, This guitar features: # 22 Medium Jumbo Frets # Rosewood fingerboard # vintage style tuners # 3 single-coil pickups # Fender synchronized tremolo # 5-way switching # Single Ply Pickguard This guitar is used, it is in good condition, only requires a setup. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... "only requires a setup", eh? ... well, each to his own opinion on that one. Dan    |
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Post by ccoleman on May 11, 2007 9:39:54 GMT -5
hey thanks for the ideas Dan !!
I wonder how many hits of LSD George Harrison took before he painted his guitar like that ?! LOL
Check this out.. I did a quick search on google and found an ebook called "How to paint your guitar" ... it seems to contain all the advice necessary..
But the info page on the site hints that it takes a LONG time for the paint to cure.. something like 6 months total..
I cannot wait that long before playing again, so if I paint her, I have to buy a second guitar to tide me over.
Or just build a new one and paint that. Hmm...
Have any of you read this particular ebook ?!
Opinions ??
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Post by dd842 on May 11, 2007 10:02:25 GMT -5
..... Check this out.. I did a quick search on google and found an ebook called "How to paint your guitar" ... it seems to contain all the advice necessary.. But the info page on the site hints that it takes a LONG time for the paint to cure.. something like 6 months total.. ..... Have any of you read this particular ebook ?! Opinions ?? Hi Chris, I haven't read that book, nor have I ever tried to paint a guitar ... I am not as adventurous as George was though  So I don't have any opinions, but when one member, sleepy, asked about his lacquer problems, he didn't get any responses ... so maybe there are few who have any experience? Who knows? At any rate, his experience seemed to be that it does take a long time for lacquer to dry - so the assertion about lengthy paint drying times could be reasonable. FYI - here is his post: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=repair&action=display&thread=1178141176Dan |
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Post by ccoleman on May 11, 2007 10:50:26 GMT -5
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Post by dd842 on May 11, 2007 11:21:50 GMT -5
interesting experience sleepy had.. that must have been frustrating. I am more and more convinced that the cure/hardening times for paint (and I bet lacquer also) are suuuuuuper long... 3-6 months. I suspect it also depends on what you use ... some of the car forums suggest about 90 days curing time (for urethane) before you start deep buffing it. It seems that the risk is that it looks good and looks dry ... maybe even feels dry ... but you can get fingerprint impressions in the paint because it's actually still soft (and that's on a car that you would only touch ... it could be a real problem when you apply the normal pressure involved even in just picking up the weight of the guitar). Now that I think of it, this used to happen on models that I'd build. I never did have much patience for that sort of thing ... I maintain that I have no experience with the application of paint as it applies to guitars ... but, be careful. Dan |
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Post by sumgai on May 11, 2007 11:21:54 GMT -5
Chris,
Nope, not even close.
Lacquers tend to melt by virtue of the solvents they carry, which explains how one layer can bleed into another, giving you a the basis for a sunburt finish. That can occur after years, the curing time has little to no effect on that ability.
However, lacquer can be sealed, though for a guitar, that's counter-productive. We players prefer the feel of unsealed lacquer, and the wood prefers it for the breathing ability. Given that, it's better to not put on too many coats of the stuff. 20 coats of clear will do just about as much damage to the tone as 1 coat of urethane - the wood just won't breathe, and the tone suffers for it.
Onwards......
Lacquer usually requires a cure time of 1 week, plus or minus 3 days. This is at room temp, nominally normal humidty, and wind-free (no fans or breezes from open windows). Kiln drying can decrease that time, but not by much, or the wood itself will suffer (again), as it tries to swell from the heat, and the lacquer tries to shrink (the explanation of "finish checking" on older instruments). During that time, depending on the manufacturer's recommendations, you can re-coat anywhere from hours to a few days later. As the finish is supposed to be a protector for the wood, you do need a couple of coats, just don't go overboard. A good job shouldn't need more than about 3 weeks, and 15 to 18 days is not out of the question.
Above all, read the manufacturer's directions, you won't be sorry. ;D
HTH
sumgai
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Post by michaelcbell on May 11, 2007 12:31:13 GMT -5
Maybe I'm not sensing all of the nuances here, but a good gloss spraypaint (masked, of course) should do the trick, right? I'm pretty sure that the clear-coat will hold up (but don't hate me if it happens not to.)
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Post by sumgai on May 11, 2007 14:26:27 GMT -5
michael, You might be, but then again, I might not be expressing very many of the nuances in the first place. Paint is too generic of a term. Lacquer and urethane both qualify as paint products - they are intended to cover and protect wood. Gloss is a descrption of a finish's appearance - glossy, semi-gloss, matte, flat, all are variations on how much sheen is presented to the eye, a reflective property. With very few limitations, nearly any finish material can be had in any sheen. Clearcoat refers merely to the absence of any pigments, and has no bearing on how well (or how poorly!) a finish might be suited for a particular job. We usually describe it as a sealer to protect the underlying coats of finish from both physical harm, and from anything leaking onto the colored finish and possibly ruining it. (It's much easier to clean and/or buff out/refresh the clearcoat layers.  Clearcoat layers will hold up just as well, but no better than, the underlying coats. Mixing and matching, such as covering a beautiful lacquer pigmented paint job (but so easy to ding!  ) with much tougher polyurethane is not recommended. Eventually, the surface contact between the two layers will break down, and bubbles, streaks, discolorations, and/or other undesirable effects will appear. How soon before that happens? My answer is another question: Does it matter? It's gonna happen, no matter what, so why do something you know you're going to have to fix later on, be it next month or next decade? There's lots of good info around the web on how to finish or re-finish a guitar, do some searching. I can recommend www.reranch.com as one source of both information and supplies, but there are many others. HTH sumgai |
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Post by eljib on May 16, 2007 18:06:37 GMT -5
I've not been to GN for a while now, because I spend most of my guitar study time at the Project Guitar forums. It has a huge archive of info on everything you could want to know about guitars. Of course, GN has a way more dedicated group when it comes to electronics, but we tend to focus ONLY on electronics.
I've learned o lot by searching the web for good info, and Project Guitar is one of the best. I know I've seen UnklMickey over there, and the sustainer guy (psw?) is a contributing member as well. If you need finishing questions answered go there. I did, and now instead of just piecing together parts, I'm making guitars. In fact, I'm finishing the final clearcoats on another "from-scratch" project guitar, and it's coming out beautifully.
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Post by ccoleman on May 22, 2007 14:46:44 GMT -5
thanks eljib for the tip on the project guitar forums.. One thing I am thinking of... I remember we designed a built in jfet based preamp, built around the j201 transistor.. how hard would it be to add an output level control to that, in order to give it the (I assume) clean boost knob that was present in andy summers' modified 1961 tele ?! I assume also that it was used for overdriving the input of whatever fx pedals or tube amp that came next in his signal chain.. www.theguitarfiles.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=719 |
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Clearcoat layers will hold up just as well, but no better than, the underlying coats.
) with much tougher polyurethane is not recommended. Eventually, the surface contact between the two layers will break down, and bubbles, streaks, discolorations, and/or other undesirable effects will appear. How soon before that happens? My answer is another question: Does it matter? It's gonna happen, no matter what, so why do something you know you're going to have to fix later on, be it next month or next decade?