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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 13, 2008 16:33:05 GMT -5
Hi, I have a 2003 HH Stratocaster and I was hoping to convert it to a HSH. I already looked under the pickguard and it has routing for HSH, I guess I lucked out. I believe my current wiring with a 3 way switch is as follows: 1 Neck (single) 2 Neck + Bridge (in series) 3 Bridge (single)
Now I'm not 100% sure that the #2 Neck and Bridge are in series but I have been told running them in parallel will lower the volume a little because the pickups are fighting each other. This does not seem to be the case with my Strat. Its about the same volume and it just sounds like both pickups are running together.
Ok my question is how do I wire the Strat for HSH and still keep all the circuits I have now but also with a middle single coil.
I'm thinking of starting out with a basic 5 way switch something like this: 1 Neck (single) 2 Neck + Middle (parallel) 3 Middle (single) 4 Middle + Bridge (parallel) 5 Bridge (single)
Then have a push volume knob that will give me the Neck + Bridge (in series) that I want to keep.
So I'm looking for any recommendations or wiring diagrams that will give me these options or close to these options.
Thanks for reading
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Post by pete12345 on Apr 14, 2008 5:10:44 GMT -5
I might be wrong, but I believe fender usually use parallel combinations rather than series...
I used 'the strat lover's strat' on the main site. This gives you the 5 standard strat positions and some others. By pulling out the volume knob, the bridge pickup is placed in series with whatever is selected by the 5 way switch, giving you: neck+bridge (series), middle+bridge (series) and (neck+middle(parallel))+bridge(series)
A phase reversing switch on another pot gives you some extra variety. My favourite sound is neck+bridge (series) with the neck pickup phased.
It's intended for single coil pickups, but there is nothing stopping you using humbuckers.
Alternatively, if you feel a little more adventurous, there's the 'Mike Richardson' mod. This uses a 5 way 'superswitch' to give you all the series combinations, all the parallel combinations, plus neck or bridge alone.
Pete
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 14, 2008 19:25:28 GMT -5
Yeah, Fender pickup combinations are usually parallel. When two pickups are in parallel, their signals average. When two pickups are in series, their signals add (in a phasor way - if you don't know what this is, you likely don't want to know what this is). The only time that they "fight each other" is when they are out of phase with each other. OOP parallel is weak and thin. OOP series is actually interesting. What you ask for is exactly what the Fender 5-way lever switch gives. You'll just wire the bridge and neck humbucker into the switch using a two wire connection like a single coil. Use any standard wiring diagram from the Fender site. Here's one for a HSS with the 5-way. Here are the pickup combinations. Note that the tone pots are directly connected to the respective pickups, which frees the other side of the switch for splitting the humbuckers. The diagram shows this done for the bridge humbucker. If you want the same for the neck humbucker, connect the tap between the two coils the same way. If you want it for neither, don't connect the wiper on that switch pole to signal ground. If your pickups are two wire only without the exposed center tap, never mind. Just wire the other humbucker to the neck contacts on the switch like the one already there.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 15, 2008 9:17:40 GMT -5
Hey, thanks for the replys. I think you guys are right, I posted on the Fender.com forums and everyone there is telling me my Strat is wired in parallel for the Neck+Bridge setting.
I think I will start out with the standard 5-way switch that ChrisK recommended with a push/pull switch to open a parallel Bridge circuit. In time I will experiment with series after I get some wiring experience down.
So the switching should be as follows:
Switch down: 1 Neck 2 Neck+Middle (Parallel) 3 Middle 4 Middle+Bridge (Parallel) 5 Bridge
Switch up: 1 Neck+Bridge (Parallel) 2 Neck+Middle+Bridge (Parallel) 3 Middle+Bridge (Parallel) 4 Middle+Bridge (Parallel) 5 Bridge
Ok, so I wire the Strat for a standard 5-way 3 circuit switch then I use the push/pull to let the bridge by pass the 5-way switch. Does that sound like the good method to get the options I listed? Thanks for the help!
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Post by pete12345 on Apr 15, 2008 12:12:31 GMT -5
Sounds like I good plan- it would give you the 'missing' neck+bridge sound, as well as the 'all three' sound. Enough to experiment with, until you get the customizing bug. Pete
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 15, 2008 18:53:14 GMT -5
I just have one more question. I have noticed most single coil strats have a RWRP middle coil. Is this done so when positions 2 and 4 are selected there is some kind of humbucking going on?
Im planning on putting Duncan Alnico Pro 2 humbuckers in the neck and bridge and putting a fender Gold Lace sensor in the middle. The Lace sensors are very resistant to hum so I think using a RWRP pickup would be useless. I dont even know if they make RWRP Lace sensors.
My over all plan is to have a Strat that sounds similar to Slash's Gibson with the Alnico Pros but still have that fender sound with the middle Lace sensor minus the hum. Does that make sense to anyone? I know it will not sound exactly like Slash's guitar due to the differences in wood.
Thanks for the replys
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 15, 2008 19:22:20 GMT -5
Yep. Now, RWRP only means something in reference to something else (usually another pickup). If two pickups are both RWRP, then neither of them are. Now, if you're going to have both humbuckers always selected as humbuckers (both coils), the middle pickup's phase and polarity (together, not phase OR polarity) are meaningless. If you are going to use the 2nd pole of the 5-way switch to split either or both numbuckers (such as a Tone Zone ;D), the middle pickup should be RWRP with the selected coil (the non-shunted) of each humbucker for humbucking'ness in positions 2 & 4 (which also infers that you will use the coils from each humbucker that are RWRP with the middle coil. As one can see, RWRP is a term that is only meaningful in reference with another pickup. If the middle is RWRP with (respect to) the bridge, then the bridge is RWRP with (respect to) the middle. While pickups are stated as being RWRP, this means in reference with the particular manufacturer's normal practice.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 15, 2008 21:34:44 GMT -5
I think for simplicity I will just run the middle pickup with the full humbucker on. Im guessing that using either-or setup has to due with the type of tone you are looking for. My problem is out of the two guitars I have, one is SSS, the other HH so I really dont know what humbucker single coil mixing sounds like. I really have no preference as to either one.
Is it uncommon to mix a single coil with a fully powered on humbucker? Do people say it sounds bad or very thin? What would you recommend? Just wondering.
Thanks for all the info!
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Post by newey on Apr 15, 2008 22:05:46 GMT -5
CYF-
Hardly uncommon. The HSH setup with a 5 position Strat style switch is one of the things that put Ibanez on the map back in the '80s. And any number of others have done the same- Jackson, for one.
I have an Ibanez 470S with that set-up and I very much like the 2 and 4 positions which have the SC and one or t'other HB. Sounds very different from a Strat, you don't get that famous "quack", but it's a good tone nonetheless. After my partsTele, it's the axe I play most often.
I suspect (without knowing) that the selection of the proper mid pickup to match up well with the HBs is a significant issue- the middle is more likely to get swamped out by the HBs than it would on a regular 3 SC Strat.
Just a thought.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 17, 2008 12:13:10 GMT -5
Ok cool, thanks for all the info.
At this point im thinking of having 2 tone pots. A 500k pot with a .033uf cap for the neck humbucker and a 250k pot with a .02uf cap for the middle Lace sensor. Does this sound pretty standard?
I was also thinking instead of a .033uf cap, putting a .047uf cap on the neck pot to have more of a Gibson like feel and sound. Does that make any sense?
Thanks for the help!
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Post by D2o on Apr 17, 2008 12:36:09 GMT -5
Yes to both, although some might say it is equally common to have a .047uf instead of the .033uf for the humbucker, just as you have hinted at below.
It's your call depending on the brightness of the tone that you want, but I think that either is a sensible option.
Of course, if you go brighter, I guess you could then roll the tone back to 8 or 9 (from 10) if you wanted to. Seeing as you are undecided, it could be there are more options for you doing it that way.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 17, 2008 15:10:58 GMT -5
Yea, I'll just go with the .033 cap and use the neck tone knob. I guess thats what its there for. lol
Now that you got me thinking maybe I will not put a cap on the middle single coil pickup tone pot at all. If I want it warmer I'll just use the knob. Plus I noticed most stock fenders dont have a cap for the middle pickup tone pot. I would still like to get that classic fender bright "ping" sound.
You think I would be better just leaving the middle pickup tone pot cap off if im looking for that classic fender sound from the middle pickup? Of course this is when only the middle pickup is selected.
Thanks
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Post by D2o on Apr 17, 2008 16:09:33 GMT -5
Yea, I'll just go with the .033 cap and use the neck tone knob. I guess thats what its there for. lol Now that you got me thinking maybe I will not put a cap on the middle single coil pickup tone pot at all. If I want it warmer I'll just use the knob. Plus I noticed most stock fenders dont have a cap for the middle pickup tone pot. I would still like to get that classic fender bright "ping" sound. You think I would be better just leaving the middle pickup tone pot cap off if im looking for that classic fender sound from the middle pickup? Of course this is when only the middle pickup is selected. Thanks I'm not sure I'd be leaving the capacitor off, BUT ... ... Seeing as you seem to be the curious type (which we LOVE around here!) I am inclined to suggest that you do a little experimenting. *Instead of soldering the actual capacitor in, why not solder a 12" piece of wire to each point that you would have soldered a capacitor's lead, and run the wires out of the guitar? That way, you can reassemble the guitar and still experiment with all the capacitors you want til the cows come home ... values ... .022uf, .033uf, .047uf, .067uf, NO capacitor ... and materials, too ... you could try things like silver mica and whatever else you can get your hands on. What do you think? * This assumes that you live in a metropolitan area in which you can find an electronics surplus store where you should have no shortage caps available on the cheap.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 17, 2008 17:31:49 GMT -5
Instead of soldering the actual capacitor in, why not solder a 12" piece of wire to each point that you would have soldered a capacitor's lead, and run the wires out of the guitar? That way, you can reassemble the guitar and still experiment with all the capacitors you want til the cows come home ... values ... .022uf, .033uf, .047uf, .067uf, NO capacitor ... and materials, too ... you could try things like silver mica and whatever else you can get your hands on. What do you think? To be honest I was kind of thinking about that, but in a different way. I want to build this one and get some experience with this stuff, put it on the guitar and play and have fun with it. At the same time I would rewire my old HH pickguard in all different ways just using alligator clips and when I want to test it out. I would just hook the leads up to my practice amp and hold the pickguard upside down next to my fully assembled guitar's strings and hit the strings. Then I could play with the pickguard unmounted. I know it will sound a little different unmounted but I think I would get a good sense of how different wirings change the tone. I will be able to rewire anything I want and my guitar will be fully assembled. I may even record the tone differences with my Zoom H2. I think it should sound pretty close if I use one pickup at a time, and carefully place the pickguard. I will probably lay the guitar down and prop the pickguard over it with foam blocks and stuff. But before I start messing around I want to get down to business and successfully build a pretty standard HSH pickguard to my liking, as best I can. That is my master plan lol! That is why I ask so many questions. Thanks
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 17, 2008 19:43:52 GMT -5
Actually they do. They share the tone cap with the neck tone pot. Since the original 5-way Strat switch was a, er, 3-way Tele switch (and could only select ONE pickup at a time), Leo saw no reason to waste perfectly good money on a second cap.
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Post by newey on Apr 17, 2008 20:05:59 GMT -5
CYF- Thereby making a middle-pickup volume pot.
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 17, 2008 20:12:06 GMT -5
Yeah, well, one prob'ly shun't do this...... Or not.
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Post by D2o on Apr 18, 2008 9:56:08 GMT -5
At the same time I would rewire my old HH pickguard in all different ways just using alligator clips and when I want to test it out. I would just hook the leads up to my practice amp and hold the pickguard upside down next to my fully assembled guitar's strings and hit the strings. Then I could play with the pickguard unmounted. Hmm ... interesting approach. I'm trying to think of how that would work out and, aside from the need for bridge grounding (alligator clip to the strung guitar's bridge, maybe?), I actually think you may be on to something here. Let us know how it turns out, even though this method may not be used by most folks.
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Post by closeyetfar on Apr 18, 2008 17:04:04 GMT -5
Yea, I'm gonna try all different stuff now that I will have a spare pickguard to play with.
I want to say thanks for all the help I have gotten here. At this point I feel I have what I need to start making this happen. Thanks for the help!
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Post by D2o on Apr 21, 2008 9:23:50 GMT -5
Yea, I'm gonna try all different stuff now that I will have a spare pickguard to play with. I want to say thanks for all the help I have gotten here. At this point I feel I have what I need to start making this happen. Thanks for the help! CYF, On behalf of all of us, you are most welcome. But please don't let this be good bye. Shtick around ... shoot the breeze, share and learn. Sheesh, I wonder if I should trademark that shaying or shumpin'? Nah, it' sh pretty chee shy. ;D
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Post by closeyetfar on May 6, 2008 11:55:37 GMT -5
Hey, I finally got the parts and im about to draw a wiring diagram for my setup. Im gonna start with basic strat wiring and then im gonna modify it. The First thing I want to do is have two capacitors instead of one. Shown in the picture, is this how I would do it? Thanks for the Help
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Post by ChrisK on May 6, 2008 12:49:00 GMT -5
Yep!
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Post by closeyetfar on May 7, 2008 14:21:43 GMT -5
Cool, Thanks for the help
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Post by closeyetfar on May 8, 2008 19:27:59 GMT -5
Ok, I am finally ready to start building/wiring. Before I do could someone take a minute to look over my wiring diagram and see if it looks correct. I believe all the info needed is in the diagram. Thanks for the help!
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Post by closeyetfar on May 15, 2008 15:54:36 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on May 15, 2008 22:36:30 GMT -5
cyf, Yes, that is a mighty fine looking job you've done! ;D However, not to pee in your Cheerios, but did you make sure there is continuity between every piece of tape on that pickguard? If there is adhesive between the bottom of one piece that overlaps the next piece, then there may well be "gaps" in the coverage/shielding effect. Solder the seams, and all will be well. (You don't need to solder every inch, just a square-inch or so on each seam.) And while you have the pickguard back off of the body, you might as well shield the cavity with some tape, too. Same thing applies about soldering each piece to the next one. The overlapping contact of the pickguard meeting the cavity shield should be good enough for the cavity material to do its job. (Presuming that the shielding tape is both doing its job, and properly connected to a central ground point.) Tell your buddies on the Fender Forum that the extra-deep holes are for the longer mounting tabs found on certain humbucking pickups. Those tabs need extra clearance in the cavity, not to mention the screws that go with 'em. sumgai
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Post by closeyetfar on May 16, 2008 0:33:20 GMT -5
Hi sumgai, Yea, I have seen other pickguard jobs where they solder each piece of tape together. Before I got my tape I was lucky to find this: www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics_pickups/Supplies_Shielding/Conductive_Copper_Tape.htmlThe self-adhesive backing is also conductive so after I taped the pickguard up, I tested out the continuity and everything was conductive. So the tape made my life a little easier. I was gonna do the body cavity as well, but I did not buy enough tape. No big deal, I will get it next time I change my strings. Actually the routing was not deep enough. I had to cut the Duncan pickup posts a little to get it in, they where very long. I think what puzzled the people on the Fender forum was the two circles near the neck pickup cavity. I'm clueless on that as well. CYF
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Post by sumgai on May 16, 2008 3:15:51 GMT -5
cyf, Conductive adhesive, eh? Well, live and learn, as they say. Me, I'm a belt and suspenders man myself, about things like this........ That's exactly what I was speaking to, the occasional need for a deeper relief to make room for those pups with longer mounting tabs. Now that I've looked again, I see your axe doesn't have them. Not all Fenders do, of course, but it'd be nice to know their scheme of things. I can see from your images that you have "short" mounting tabs, but very long screws, which would still necessitate the deeper pocket. Personally, I'd just cut the screws, and be done with it. It's been rumored that those two "extra" holes are for mounting/holding the body while it's in the paint booth..... but I can't confirm that, so don't take this as Gospel. HTH sumgai
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Post by ChrisK on May 16, 2008 18:10:00 GMT -5
CNC tooling/registration, and possibly painting holes (but I doubt it). How conductive was it (Ohms, please)? StewMac suggests that it can also be wrapped around a pickup's coil for shielding. By wrapping it around a pickup's coil, you are creating a low impedance (depending on them there Ohms) shorting turn. This will suck (some energy from the sustain). It will cetainly suck (some high frequencies out of the signal - another hidden tone control).
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Post by closeyetfar on May 19, 2008 16:53:51 GMT -5
I don't remember the Ohms. The way my meter works is if the Ohms are very low it beeps and if its higher it only shows the Ohms. I will check the Ohms next time I have the strings off, but I doubt it will be a problem.
I did not wrap my coils, I don't think it would really help much with the pickups I am using. I may do the body next but the guitar is very quiet as it is. I'm still very surprised how well it turned out.
Thanks for the support guys.
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