Splitting a Daisy Chain

[mr_sooty]

If you take an effects daisy chain, you know, the things you use to power mulitple pedals from one adaptor, and you cut it somewhere along the chain, do you now have two shorter daisy chains? Or is there some reason why they won't work. I mean apart from the fact that you need the end that plugs into the adaptor, because some effects have an out for a daisy chain and you don't always need that end. So could you cut a five plug daisy chain to make say, a three plug and a two plug?

[mr_sooty]

*bump* Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but it is a genuine one!

[ChrisK]

I'm somewhat confused.

I guess that I don't exactly know what these words mean. Are you talking about a power distribution cable from an adapter that is daisy-chained at the end (where it plugs into and powers an effect) to provide a drop point for another effect and then to enable the continuation the chain to the next effect?

If so, all of these are paralleled power distribution means. If one can have multiple cables coming out of the adapter, one can have multiple chained cables. In essence, one could "cut the chain" providing one has somewhere else to reconnect the "snub" (the snipped stub) to power.

In fact, this would be preferred for some effects that might excessively modulate the DC power bus and cause coupling between effects. One could further improve things by having local (in the meaning of being near a particular effect) bulk/bypass caps.


Unfortunately, unlike a severed worm's tail, the missing "snub" will not regenerate! ;D

[mr_sooty]

Daisy Chain:

cgi.ebay.com/DAISY-CHAIN-8-WAY-FOR-BOSS-DIGITECH-ETC-EFFECTS-PEDALS_W0QQitemZ200215759533QQihZ010QQcategoryZ41412QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So I'm wondering if, say you only used 3 ends, whether you could just chop the lead inbetween two plugs. Then you'd effectively have two shorter daisy chains. Or would you?

[ChrisK]

The link shows a daisy-chained cable with one male end (the goes'inta) and several female ends (the goes'outta(s)).

If one cuts the cable, only the half with the male connector (power goes'inta) can connect to anything.

While the other half (pun intended) may be "fun to watch" as it "attempts to connect to something", it will be a eunuch.

[mr_sooty]

I've already covered that particular issue!

Apr 14, 2008 2:51:52 GMT -5 mr_sooty said:

I mean apart from the fact that you need the end that plugs into the adaptor, because some effects have an out for a daisy chain and you don't always need that end.

[sumgai]

sooty,

I mean apart from the fact that you need the end that plugs into the adaptor, because some effects have an out for a daisy chain and you don't always need that end.

So what you're saying is that you're gonna use a pedal/stompbox as a "joint" in the chain? And why would you do that?

Moreover, what if you change your mind, in the future?

If you like the idea of using this kind of power supply wiring, then you might want to have a backup or two, just in case.

Are you doing this because some of your pedals are negative on the shell, and others are positive on the shell? If not, what's your motivation here?




sumgai

[ChrisK]

So, based on our diatribe, have you pre-answered you question?

[mr_sooty]

Apr 16, 2008 13:43:34 GMT -5 sumgai said:

sooty,

I mean apart from the fact that you need the end that plugs into the adaptor, because some effects have an out for a daisy chain and you don't always need that end.

So what you're saying is that you're gonna use a pedal/stompbox as a "joint" in the chain? And why would you do that?

Moreover, what if you change your mind, in the future?

If you like the idea of using this kind of power supply wiring, then you might want to have a backup or two, just in case.

Are you doing this because some of your pedals are negative on the shell, and others are positive on the shell? If not, what's your motivation here?




sumgai

Not so much using the pedal as a link, but more using them seperately, on different boards. The pedal would be the start point of the chain on another board that only needs a few pedals.

What if I change my mind? Well big deal, it's just a daisy chain. not the end of the world.

Motivation? Just having the right number of plugs for a couple of applications without having anything left over.

Have I pre-answered my question? I'm not sure. I'm guessing it would work fine. But I probably won't need to now, I've found another solution with a bigger daisy chain.

[JohnH]

So that would be a yes you can cut it, and add another socket if you wish.

Does anyone else share my worry with these things:

Most stompboxes have nagative grounds, to the metal case. The stupid convention for power plugs on these things is to have a positive outer barrel. Hence if we have a daisy chain without all the plugs plugged somewhere, there are exposed positive plug barrels floating around on the floor amoungst all the grounded metal stompbox cases. Zap-tastic! or at least sparkadelic! I've wrapped the two unused plugs on my daisy chain in electrical tape, so I don't have to lose so much sleep.

John

[sumgai]

sooty,

I'm with John on this one, the wiring conventions and the safety issues (not so much for the player, but for the equipment), it's all a lot of head-scratching. You end up either taking an awful lot of Ginko-Biloba, or else writing out a cheatsheet (to be lost later on, just when you need it! ) Me, I'm not sure what I'd do, if I were forced to use more than one stompbox...... (Of which, mine has the AC cord hard-wired in anyways.)

Having two completely separate systems, that's a good enough reason to save a few bucks, that's easy to understand. I only said "buy a spare or two" because at less than 9 bucks American, they are cheap insurance.

When it comes to changing your mind, I was referring to the fact that you may decide that you no longer want that "double jacked" pedal in your chain...... then how do you get power to the rest of your goodies? Something to think about. But they do make gender-benders for this style of plug, so not all is lost.

HTH



sumgai

[mr_sooty]

John's post illustrates why I don't like to have plugs left over, not to mention the fact that it can cause excess noise. I like to have exactly the right amount of plugs, but it get's tricky when your getting up to 12 units being run off a daisy chain.

Geez, once you get to that point, the pedal board starts to become a real hassle. True bypass pedals are all the rage, but they sure can be problematic, those switches seem to malfunction all the time. My true bypass pedals sometimes cut out my whole signal when I bypass them.

I use seperate pedals because I like the sound and the ability to be able to adjust quickly (without having to 'edit a preset bank or whatever), but with the amount of trouble I have, I really wonder if I'd be better off using a multi effects unit.

aaaaannnnyyywaaayyy......... the 'double jacked' pedal is a tuner with a mute switch, so if I end up putting it on, it's unlikely I'd want to take it off.

[ChrisK]

I really wonder if I'd be better off using a multi effects unit.

In fact, I use(d) an ME50, which my brother-in-law has had for a year, and he's decided that he isn't going to give back to me.

He will be getting a bill..............

As a matter of fact, he's been using my Mesa Mk IV for about as long.


I call it the lend-sell program.

[ashcatlt]

I agree with you on the issue of seperate pedals vs multi-effect. Some of the multis out there actually have indivual knobs for each of the effects, and some of the more expensive ones allow you to change the order of effects. Not sure if you can get both features in any one unit, though.

I think you really need some form of pedal power distribution better than this daisy chain. This is the first link I found, and it includes several examples. My SKB pedal board has something like this built in. Allows you to have only as many "ends" connected as you need. Alleviates the concerns mentioned above completely.

Assuming it's wired properly it would also avoid the ground loop issue that these "short parallel" daisy chains cause. It's not a problem with every pedal, but can be, especially with high gain effects.

These things also usually include a bunch of little cables with different connectors. You can use them with both the Boss style pedals and the DOD 1/8" miniplugs. Some even come with a battery clip or two for pedals without dedicated DC ins.

[mr_sooty]

Thanks Ash. Actually, the adaptor I'm using is on that link, the Godlyke PA9. I'm having issues with my sound dying away and with my true bypass pedals not switching properly. Could this be anything to do with the power supply? I'm well under it's drain limit.

I'm considering a little Artec Power Brick, similar to one of the power bricks listed on that link but smaller and cheaper. I just don't have room on my board for a Voodoo Labs or the like, plus they're very expensive.

[ChrisK]

It may be that the bypass switches are failing or have oxidized contacts.

Most switches used in guitars/effects are not suitable for long-term reliability from a design engineering perspective.

For the low level of signal (certainly the guitar output) one should use only switches with gold plated contacts (no wetting current required - gold doesn't oxidize).

If anything, the enhanced reliability of a multi-effect unit may offset the weak links in any chain based on silver contacts (one DOES have to polish one's silver occasionally).

(And software rarely oxidizes.)