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Post by newey on Apr 25, 2008 21:44:30 GMT -5
ChrisK, Sumgai and others have indicated they use an RF wireless setup so as to eliminate any potential for shock hazards.
I've never used one of these, don't really need one just for around the house. But, I'm curious, what about the sound of these systems? Is there a penalty to be paid as compared to a good cable?
And, are the cheaper ones ok, or do you have to spend a few hundred bucks to get one that sounds decent?
Obviously, touring pros have used these for years, but I guess I always assumed any sonic deficiencies would be unnoticeable once the signal was processed, miked through a PA, etc. How about if it's just you, axe and amp?
BTW, I did a search on this but came up empty, mostly because the search engine kicked out "RF" as being too short, less than 4 characters is apparently a no-no.
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 25, 2008 22:11:19 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Apr 25, 2008 22:37:50 GMT -5
Already searched MF and saw that Nady had a cheap one for $60, I was more wondering if it was decent in that price range, or would one need to go to a higher-priced unit for a decent sound- or is it more an issue of the expensive ones being more durable and road-worthy?
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Post by andy on Apr 26, 2008 4:59:33 GMT -5
Newey, I've owned a Shure wireless for a couple of years now. I've used it on and off, but had some reliability issues. Just occasionally the signal will drop out, so I'm always a little wary of it. I must get a new instrument-transmitter cable, as I think it could be the issue, but even so...
It does state that the unit should be mounted away from metal surfaces to- I looked for a plastic rack shelf everywhere, to no avail, but I suppose that I should mount it elsewhere. Unfortunately the only options would be on top of my amp or my tuner in the rack- both metal.
As for the sound, I have found that a cable is just 'bolder' sounding. The signal is stronger and the tone just seems a bit bigger- its a fairly subtle difference with the general character of the sound being pretty much the same, but there does seem to be a tiny touch less definition and punch. Not that the tone with the wireless is bad- just a little different.
I am also suffering from a bit of an output problem- as the pickups in my new bass (Neck-thru Ibanez SRX 705) have quite a high output, I need to bring the level down on the transmitter to avoid distortion- this means that the output to the amp needs really cranking- so much so that the volume output on the reciever is not enough- it was alway near the top of its range anyway, but now, at full whack, it is still shy of the 'cabled' volume, so needs a change in gain on the amp when switching back to a cable. Not handy when the flaming thing drops out halfway through a set.
I have tweaked everything I can to get it to optimium, and really should get that new lead and re-shuffle my rack, but there are certainly some irks with my wireless. The guitarist in the band where I would use it, however, has used one without fail for years, with just one venue in one town causing some slight interference problems, so I guess it just depends.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 26, 2008 11:49:10 GMT -5
newey, I'm using an older 'Guitar Bug', made by AKG, that I got used. It gives me no headache at all, either in reliability or in tone. The only thing I might caution you about is that the single AAA-sized cell lasts only about 7-8 hours - carry a spare in your pocket before going on stage, as you will forget when you last changed it!  (Even if you use rechargables, a spare is still mandatory!) In this arena, there are many cheapies doing the 'wannabe' act, and falling short. Signal dropouts, static, interference from other units, sometimes poor tone, all contribute to a bad experience. If I had to pick a price point, I'd probably say at least $200 (American) new, but that's just my experience, there may well be others on the market for less, and just as good as the big boys. It's also likely that the Law of Diminishing Returns applies here - after so much money, the benefits aren't noticibly greater than the, say, the $300 units. If I had to get a unit today, off the store wall, I'd likely pick an X2. The Guitar Bug has only one channel, but it supposedly comes from the factory set to use one of several possible channels. The battery cover is color coded to the receiver for different frequencies...... should you need more than one for a band, make sure they're different.  I see that Musician's Friend claims they are no longer selling these things. Too bad.... for them. Sam Ash and others are quite willing to take your money.  Or you can buy used - I just saw one on craigslist (in Detroit) go for only half of new.  And about those Tone Nazis......... A golden ear might be able to tell the difference in a pristine studio environment, but your surmisal is correct - on the stage, no one knows you're using an RF cable (unless they look closely). ;D A really, really cheap unit might not sound so good, but the odds are pretty high that you'll return it for lack of reliability first, before you even think of testing it for tone.  HTH sumgai |
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Post by newey on Apr 26, 2008 12:35:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the input, guys! I may decide to get one (Xmas list is a little early, but . . .).
Can you run one of these transmitters out the end of a pedal chain? Or do you need to have an effects loop-equipped amp?
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Post by pete12345 on Apr 26, 2008 13:51:24 GMT -5
I suppose if normally you run guitar-> cable -> effects -> amp, you could easily do guitar-> transmitter -> receiver -> effects -> amp. i.e, you would just connect the receiver to the first pedal in the chain.
Pete
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Post by andy on Apr 26, 2008 19:56:36 GMT -5
I'll second pete12345 on that.
The only thing to consider is that most recievers are half-rack units, or similarly sized stand alone units, with an external power supply. On a big, well protected pedal board it could be OK, but a long cable from the unit in a rack/on top of the amp to the first pedal might be wise, with plenty of gaffa tape holding it to the stage, as once you're wirless you'll be running all over the place!
I've never seen anyone use floor based effects and a wireless though, so I'd be keen to hear how anyone else does it, if they have.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 27, 2008 11:46:15 GMT -5
Akshully............ I do that! Most of you will recall that I play both bass and "normal" guitar (depending on how you define normal  ). For the bass, it's the usual and customary routine. However, being as how the Strat has been heavily breathed upon, the order goes more like this: Guitar -> 13-pin cable -> floor unit -> transmitter -> magic airwaves -> receiver -> amp The floor unit in most cases is my GR-33, but for all practical purposes, it doesn't make any difference, the Bug will fit anything I've ever tried it with. The benefit here is that I can go back and forth between bass and guitar simply by switching the Bug between the bass and the floor unit, no problem. (I do have to tweak the amp's treble a bit each time, big deal.) Now............... Some (most) of you were thinking in the other direction, putting the RF cable between your axe and your pedals. Fine, I like that idea too. (In my 13-pin world, I'd need at least 7 transmitters/receivers, plus a ginormous on-board power-pack.) What I did for the receiver was go down to Radidio Shack and pick up a battery holder (actually, a multiple cell holder, thus creating a battery), one that holds 8 AA cells. The output terminals are built like a standard 9vDC battery's connector. That means, you buy a pack of those connectors, and one or two mini-plugs that will fit your receiver's power jack. (I happen to have about a dozen extra wall-warts laying around, and "asked" for a volunteer for this mission. ) Mate them all up with a short cord (and with head-shrink tubing), and Presto! you now have an independent power supply that's almost as small as most wall-warts, doesn't trip you on a semi-dark stage, and just as important, doesn't cause any hum! ;D Get in the habit of swapping the rechargable cells about every 10 hours of playing time, and you should be all set. .................. Ooh, I just realized - that's for a 12vDC supply. If you only need 9vDC, one of those little tinker-toy batteries will last at least 6 hours, and probably much more. Same jury-rigged cord as above, but you won't need the multi-cell holder. HTH sumgai |
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Post by gumbo on Apr 28, 2008 8:50:42 GMT -5
Hmmm...Thanks again SG...more ideas! ..Since you know I do exactly the same bass-to-guitar tap dance..what amp are you currently favo(u)ring for all that? I'm just sticking to the good ol' 59 Bassman RI... |
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Post by sumgai on Apr 28, 2008 9:32:02 GMT -5
gumbo, Errr, if you really have to know........ it's an Ampeg 410HLF mated up with a Gallien-Krueger RB400-IV. Enough power to fluff the pillows - in your neighbor's house! When pulling straight guitar duty, I just tweak the treble, insert the FRU, and it makes any Dual Showman turn green with envy! ;D I tell you, if I took this cabinet outdoors with my 800watt PA amp, and pointed it straight up, I could probably knock small aircraft out of the sky!  For the practice room, I've got a 7 or 8 year old Fender Bassman 200. Almost as good a tone, but weighs less than half the above. Way less. (Ouch! ) HTH sumgai |
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Post by andy on Apr 28, 2008 17:13:34 GMT -5
I'm just sticking to the good ol' 59 Bassman RI... Off topic, but how is the Bassman for bass, in a modern context? I've always liked the idea of using 'the original' rig, but assumed it would be a bit limited, especially at 45 watts.  |
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Post by newey on Apr 28, 2008 22:36:38 GMT -5
MEMO
TOP SECRET-EYES ONLY!
To: Joint Chiefs of Staff, c/o The Pentagon
Re: Air Force Budget, Fiscal Year 2008
Gentlemen:
Why have we allocated 4.5 billion USD for FY 2008 to the production and deployment of Predator drone aircraft for tactical air defense, when I am reliably informed that a Gallien-Krueger RB 400IV, coupled with an 800-Watt PA amplifier, can do the job at a considerable cost savings? Please evaluate this option and prepare a summary for my consideration.
Sincerely,
George W. Bush
Commander-in-Chief
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by sumgai on Apr 29, 2008 2:12:02 GMT -5
*chortle*
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Post by gumbo on Apr 29, 2008 9:30:42 GMT -5
Hi Andy...continuing the OT....(SG permitting!) Yes, the 59 B-M RI is limited - I just happen to love the tone ...although I have found it surprising at times how far I've been able to push it over the last ten years Since this is all happening in a six-piece Cajun-Creole-Zydeco band where there is normally so much going on all the time (even the rub-board player has a wireless setup!) I also feed to a slot of our 20-something channel PA system.. ;D Most members swap and change to anything up to three or four different instruments each during the course of a gig, so the whole place is full of electric knitting anyway... Latest revision (February) to the band's lineup will probably cause the bass to go through another member's 300w Eden, and the Bassman will then be relegated to just guitar - we'll see what happens when we hit the live stage again at the end of May...keep you posted! We have a suitcase full of DI units which get spread out to connect all sorts of stuff (including two mini-mixers) to a Queen Mary style old Yamaha 16-channel desk, what we lack in talent we make up for in ballast ...I still love the Bassman.... ;D |
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Post by D2o on Apr 29, 2008 9:58:57 GMT -5
"Off-Topic"
I notice how most of us apologize for feeling as if we have hi-jacked a thread and taken it "off-topic".
I welcome off-topic.
Off-topic is often entertaining, insightful - if not delusional - and revealing ...
... and off-topic encourages more activity among our little community.
... just my 8 ohms worth
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Post by 1953sbaalto on May 8, 2008 11:28:19 GMT -5
a little off-topic, a little back on-topic...
I use the samson concert 77 wireless with my saxes. Makes life a lot better on stage, or out in the crowd if i so feel.
As long as i point the mic right, there is no significant difference in the sound between using a hardwired and the wireless mic. Probably will buy a cable to go from the belt pack to the guitar at some point also...
~Jon
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rosspix
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by rosspix on May 15, 2008 7:40:49 GMT -5
A bit after the event, but hey... :-) I've never seen anyone use floor based effects and a wireless though, so I'd be keen to hear how anyone else does it, if they have. Andy, I'm using an AKG Guitar Bug with a pedalboard, just fine... I've used a 4-core cable loom from JohnnyShredFreak to route the received wireless signal (and DC power) to the 'board, and both return signals - my amp (customised Carlsbro 50 Top) has two separate inputs and no channel switching, so a dual A/B switch does everything I need; switches the inputs and outputs:  Not sure if JohnnyShredFreak can still get hold of the looms; they're not currently listed... Cheers, Ross. |
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blank
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by blank on Jul 2, 2008 12:52:44 GMT -5
I've had an X2 Digital for over a year now. I got one right when it came out in Feb. 2007. I had tried analog wireless in the past and couldn't live with the added hiss, compression, loss of low end. This X2 system does add a bit of hiss - really only noticable if you use a lot of distortion - but has none of the other problems. It's pretty cheap considering it's a digital unit. $300 vs. something like $1200 for the Lectrosonics model. It isn't perfect but all in all I like it.
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(Even if you use rechargables, a spare is still mandatory!) 
Or you can buy used - I just saw one on craigslist (in Detroit) go for only half of new. 
). For the bass, it's the usual and customary routine. However, being as how the Strat has been heavily breathed upon, the order goes more like this:
