Wiring Help Needed!!!!

[clund]

Hey Everyone… Need some wiring help!

I just ordered 3 new pickups for my HSS Kramer American Stagemaster Custom guitar. This is what I got: (Bridge) Seymour Duncan JB (TB-4) Humbucker, (Mid) Seymour Duncan Classic Stack Plus (STK-S4), and (Neck) DiMarzio Fast Track 1 (DP181). I am really excited about this new setup (Replacing EMG’s installed in the mid 90’s) but want to do a custom wiring and have a few questions if there are any experts out there.
The Plan is to install the Neck and Bridge pickups in a dual humbucker setup like this one:

www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2hum_1vol_1tone_super5way

That way I can have these positions on my 5 way (Super 5 Way) switch:
1. Bridge Humbucker Full
2. Bridge Humbucker Split (inner coil)
3. Bridge and Neck Humbucker Full
4. Neck Humbucker split (inner coil)
5. Neck Humbucker full

The Middle pickup I plan on putting on a mini toggle (on-off-on). The Classic Stack has a hum canceling stack like a humbucker but can be split as well… So I would like to setup so it’s down position if full hum cancelling, middle is off, and up is single coil. See Diagram [Humbucker/OFF/Single Coil (South)]: Second one down on the left.

www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.1wiringdiagrams.humbuckerwiringmods/

First… I know the DiMarzio has a different color code on pickups than Seymour Duncan (red and black wire swap). Second, I need to know how to make sure I have the phase correct… The middle pickup (Classic Stack) will need to be wired opposite to make it hum cancel when it is in single coil and bridge or neck is selected with split… correct? I am a little confused by the fact the Classic Stack has 3 wires (Red Black White) instead of 4 (Green) like normal humbucker. I think I may have the Whit and Black wire opposite... So the white goes to ground. I may also put the DPDT connect to the Tip (Hot) of the Output jack so it is not in the volume controls, so I can turn off the Neck and Bridge and leave the mid on.

Any help and or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks,
Corey

[newey]

clund-

Welcome!

And if anyone would like to make me a diagram I Would be VERY VERY Thankful!!!!

You seem to already have a diagram. Whether it will work as you wish is another story.

The middle pickup (Classic Stack) will need to be wired opposite to make it hum cancel when it is in single coil and bridge or neck is selected with split… correct?

No. Reversing the wires only changes the phasing. To effect hum cancellation one of the 2 coils under consideration must be of opposite magnetic polarity and be reverse wound with respect to the other.

Which presents you with a dilemma. If you want your "bridge and neck SC"l split option to be humbucking, you have to split off coils of opposite polarity. Your mid stack pickup, when in SC mode, will then be opposite of one or the other, but not of both. If "bridge SC and mid SC" is humbucking, "neck SC and mid SC" will not be, and vice versa. Alternatively, you could choose to make the neck and bridge split coils the same polarity, with the mid opposite of the other 2, which would make both of the mid SC combos humbucking, but the neck SC and Bridge SC together would not be (this is, essentially, the Strat solution to the dilemma)

So you just can't have it all.

I am a little confused by the fact the Classic Stack has 3 wires (Red Black White) instead of 4 (Green) like normal humbucker.

HBs come in 2-, 3-, and 4- wire versions. While your stacked HB has 2 coils, only one is a string-sensing coil. The other coil is there, stacked below, for hum cancellation purposes only. Presumably, no one would want to split both coils off since only one is string-sensing. I suspect the Duncan website has the wiring color codes for this pickup?

As to whether your diagram is basically correct (except for needing to put the middle coil back in phase), I leave to more expert minds.

[ChrisK]

Based on this drawing, www.seymourduncan.com/images/products/electric/stratocaster/501015-135.pdf splitting (shorting the bottom coil) on the Classic Stack is accomplished by connecting the RED wire to ground. This infers that the RED wire is the tap connection between the two coils internally connected in SERIES.

Based on this description, www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/progressive/classic_stack_p/
and the fact that the middle pickup is RWRP for hum cancellation with other STK-S4's when multiples are split (by shorting the bottom coil), one might suspect that the top coil is actively sensing the strings and hum and the bottom coil is just sensing the hum.

So, this would indicate that the proper utilization of this pickup genre would be

WHITE is the top of the top coil connected to HOT/OUTPUT,

RED is the tap between the coils for a'shorting to the back of the volume pot,

and the BLACK is the bottom of the bottom coil connected to the back of the volume pot.

BARE of course, is the pickup shield, connected to the back of the volume pot.


Now, depending on WHICH flavor of STK-S4 you have, hum cancellation of the active coil therein with either the JB or Fast Track is for YOU to determine. Fortunately, both of these pickups have two active coils enabling you to choose the correct one.

There will not be much difference between the coils on the Fast Track, but there will be some since each is tuned (well, designed) differently to effect the desired response.

The JB will have two nearly identical coils, however, the magnetic sensing structure is different for each coil. One is via steel slugs (the slug coil) which sounds Strat-like and one is via the screws (the screw coil) which sounds brighter/weaker.

The easiest way to determine which coil is RP with the STK-S4 is to find the coil that is magnetically attracted to the slugs on the STK-S4. These will be of opposite (attracts) polarity. Now all you have to do is to select the correct coil wires. If there is a signal phase issue, just swap the two wires from the offending coil(s).

'Tis is a good read on phasing/splitting concepts. Scroll down to my post of 16May2008.


Regarding your phasing dilemma; since only ONE single coil is selected at a time (as you stipulate), the coil of the same polarity/phase from the bridge and neck pickups can be chosen to effect hum cancellation with the middle.


NOW, since the STK-S4 only has one string sensing coil, why do you want to split it?

[clund]

First off... Newey and Chris... thanks SOO much for your help.

May 20, 2008 19:28:14 GMT -5 newey said:

clund-

No. Reversing the wires only changes the phasing. To effect hum cancellation one of the 2 coils under consideration must be of opposite magnetic polarity and be reverse wound with respect to the other.

As to whether your diagram is basically correct (except for needing to put the middle coil back in phase), I leave to more expert minds.

Newey... I understand this and the STK-4 Mid pickup is RWRP. So I will be using it with the SLUG coil of the JB Bridge and the Neck side of the Fast Track - so it should have hum cancelling like possition 2 and 4 of a standard strat. - I will not have an option for Neck / Bridge split, but I am okay with that.

May 20, 2008 20:20:07 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

There will not be much difference between the coils on the Fast Track, but there will be some since each is tuned (well, designed) differently to effect the desired response.

'Tis is a good read on phasing/splitting concepts. Scroll down to my post of 16May2008.

Regarding your phasing dilemma; since only ONE single coil is selected at a time (as you stipulate), the coil of the same polarity/phase from the bridge and neck pickups can be chosen to effect hum cancellation with the middle.

NOW, since the STK-S4 only has one string sensing coil, why do you want to split it?

Chris... thanks for the link... and as for the STK-S4, I want to split it so it will act as a single coil in conjunction with the Neck or Bridge split coil and acheive hum cancelation. This should work correct? I know they are not matching pickups, is that a problem? I figure if I don't split the Mid and try to add a single from the neck or bridge it will induce hum.

Here is an updated Diagram I made... Sorry it's B&W, don't have a color scanner at the office. Look right?



Again... Thanks for ALL your help!!!!!!!!!!

- Corey

[newey]

clund-

I confess to having misread your first post, I thought you had a Bridge and neck SC option in there. So, with a RWRP middle, you will get humbucking with "standard" polarity neck and bridge coils like in a Strat.

But ChrisK is correct, you must first determine the polarities of the coils on the neck and bridge HBS to select the right ones for hum cancellation with the middle. When the Duncan folks say the middle STK-S4 is RWRP, this means it is so with respect to other STK-S4 pickups. Since you aren't using these, but different pickups (including one from a different manufacturer), you can't assume that one or the other coil on either the neck or bridge HB is the correct match.

It's easy enough to check, in the manner ChrisK suggested, since you haven't mounted them or wired them yet.

As far as your new diagram, I can't tell much, unfortunately, without the color.

[ChrisK]

I understand this and the STK-4 Mid pickup is RWRP. So I will be using it with the SLUG coil of the JB Bridge and the Neck side of the Fast Track - so it should have hum canceling like position 2 and 4 of a standard Strat.

Do the STK-S4 poles magnetically attract the JB slug coil poles?

If not, you cannot use these two coils for hum cancellation.


Do the STK-S4 poles magnetically attract the Fast Track neck coil blade?

If not, you cannot use these two coils for hum cancellation.


While flipping the magnet in the JB is not difficult (please flip it longitudinally), doing so in the Fast Track may not be as easy.

I don't recall the resistance and inductance values for the Fast Track (I have one as half of a DiMarzio out-of-print Multibucker 4 coil pickup), but I do recall that the coils are wound differently.

I know they are not matching pickups, is that a problem?

Not as much as one might think. A little cancellation goes a long way.

I figure if I don't split the Mid and try to add a single from the neck or bridge it will induce hum.

Again, not as much as one might think. A little cancellation goes a long way.

[clund]

Hey... Thanks again guys... I started the project last night. Ran out of time and didn't finish. I checked the polarity, of the mid with the other two pickups and I think I am good.

I have everything mounted, soldered the jumpers, grounds, Tone and such, just need to solder the pickups to the switches, and the Jack. Hope to finish up tonight. I had to do a little modifying to get a few pieces to fit (Sawed off a bit of the Super Switch board) The mounting holes are thru wood, not a pickgaurd. So it was a VERY tight fit, but I think I got it.

I also added a color diagram where the B&W one was on the previous post.

Thank you both... You really have helped quite a bit!!!!!!!!

- Corey