ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 9, 2008 22:32:18 GMT -5
Hi,
I have two pickups, a three-way switch (Bridge-Combined-Neck), and one volume knob on my strat. I had some humming issues and too bright of a tone, so I randomly inserted a tone capacitor. The humming is now completely gone, but my bridge pickup now sounds like the neck. I like the tone of the new middle position a lot, but it's overall way too muddy. Can anybody guide me as to where to properly place the capacitor on this setup?
Thank you.
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Post by ashcatlt on Jun 9, 2008 23:23:18 GMT -5
Hi.
So, some questions.
First, and most important, exactly where did you insert this random capacitor?
2 - This "one volume knob," it is master volume, no?
C - Before random insertion it was too bright in every position?
You might get away with just reducing the value of that volume pot. Otherwise, to affect the whole guitar regardless of switch position you could put the cap between the wiper of the volume pot and the grounded lug. You could also solder it across the output jack itself. If the one you've got makes it too muddy, try a different value.
Not quite sure how this would help with hum, though...
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 10, 2008 13:24:29 GMT -5
1. I took it out, so I can't really remember. 2. Yes 3. It was bright especially in the bridge position
Thanks for the reply. Are there any other suggestions?
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Post by ashcatlt on Jun 10, 2008 15:57:47 GMT -5
You could try putting a capacitor across each of the pickups. That means between the two wires on each, before the switch. This way you could choose an appropriate value for each. They would interact some in the mid positon, but it could work.
Assuming you don't want to add any holes to the thing, you might try getting a couple mini trim pots and wiring them up with caps across each pickup like standard tone pots (see Les Paul, et al.). They'd be internal to the wiring cavity (somewhere) and basically "set and forget" type things. Or, you could just use a standard pot to dial it in, measure it where you like it, and insert the nearest value resistor.
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 10, 2008 16:50:11 GMT -5
Do you know the value of this "tone capacitor"?
Is this a specific Strat model (is it even a Fender), or is it a modified guitar?
Is the pickup selector switch a standard Fender one?
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Post by sumgai on Jun 10, 2008 17:50:52 GMT -5
r2g, If you want to keep the current appearance of your axe (you don't want to drill more holes in it), how about using a stacked control? That way you'd have both volume and tone controls, yet from a few feet away, no one would know that you've done any mods at all. The obvious benefit here is that you would then have total control over the tone setting for each pickup (or the combination of the two) - what's not to love about that? ;D HTH sumgai
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 10, 2008 18:19:08 GMT -5
Thank you for the suggestions. Do you know the value of this "tone capacitor"? Is this a specific Strat model (is it even a Fender), or is it a modified guitar? Is the pickup selector switch a standard Fender one? It's 0.022 MFD (250K pot). It is a genuine Fender Japan E-series Stratocaster ('84 - '87). Yes, I replaced the original one with a new Fender one. The pot is still original. I'm not sure how this can help, but thanks.
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 11, 2008 12:33:45 GMT -5
I was hoping for a specific model to know the exact pickup and wiring scheme.
This does not infer a standard model.
Are the pickups humbuckers or single coils?
The long and short of it is;
you stuck a cap somewhere in the guitar,
you don't know where,
we don't know what pickups are used and can guess about the switching
It seems like you need a tone control.
If we knew the model, and hence the wiring scheme, advice would be easy.
Can you take and post a digital picture of the guitar body (front) and of the underside of the pickguard?
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Post by lpf3 on Jun 11, 2008 18:03:56 GMT -5
Sounds like there's another Squier '51 in the Nutzhouse Cool . -lpf3 EDIT :oops ! ( takes me a minute )
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 12, 2008 1:10:31 GMT -5
I was hoping for a specific model to know the exact pickup and wiring scheme. this does not infer a standard model. Are the pickups humbuckers or single coils? The long and short of it is; you stuck a cap somewhere in the guitar, you don't know where, we don't know what pickups are used and can guess about the switching It seems like you need a tone control. If we knew the model, and hence the wiring scheme, advice would be easy. Can you take and post a digital picture of the guitar body (front) and of the underside of the pickguard? Oh, ok. I'll be more specific, then. All parts are genuine Fender parts, but I replaced the pickups; I have Tex-Mex on the neck and Lace Sensor Red on the bridge (nothing in the mid). I replaced the five-way with a three-way (Fender) It's wired like this: www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2singlecoils_1vol_1switchFor the Lace Sensor, I have one wire going to the switch, and the other two to the back of the pot. Here's an audio clip to give you an idea of what I mean by "muddy" (sorry if you don't dig Blackmore, but this is all I recorded): media.putfile.com/Burn-SoloThat's the bridge position (which sounds almost exactly like the neck now). The tone actually isn't that bad, but it doesn't sound like a strat anymore. Thanks again for the help.
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Post by newey on Jun 12, 2008 5:44:23 GMT -5
Well, it's really more like a Tele in a Strat body now, since you modded it. That doesn't explain your "muddy" bridge tone, however.
You stated that it was "too bright" in all positions before. Was this before you replaced the pickups or after?
Lace Sensor's website cautions against mixing Lace Sensors with regular pickups in combinations, I don't know if that's your problem or not, but it may play a role here.
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 12, 2008 11:59:01 GMT -5
I'm having some difficulty with spatial disruptions in the time-space continuum. These are primatily centered around the apparently variable meaning of the word "now". One might assume that this occurred after the insertion of the capacitor. One might assume that this occurred after the insertion of the capacitor. A most valid and important query. Sooooooo, you had some humming issues and too bright of a tone, you stuck a capacitor somewhere in the guitar, the humming is now completely gone, but the bridge pickup now sounds like the neck, you like the tone of the new middle position a lot, but it's overall way too muddy, you removed the cap and can't remember where it was inserted, You need help in determining where to insert the capacitor, you posted an audio clip to give an idea of what you mean by "muddy"... you posted a clip indicating that it's of the bridge position I can't tell when "when" was or when "now" isn't. It appears to me that the insertion of the capacitor permanently altered the tone of the guitar, even after it was removed. We need a stake in the ground (or at least in the continuum) as a reference point. (There's a reason why I didn't go into dentistry....) So, do you still like the sound of the middle position? ;D
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 12, 2008 12:22:30 GMT -5
You stated that it was "too bright" in all positions before. Was this before you replaced the pickups or after? Lace Sensor's website cautions against mixing Lace Sensors with regular pickups in combinations, I don't know if that's your problem or not, but it may play a role here. Originally, it wasn't too bright. I replaced them because I didn't like the tone. Mixing pickups doesn't seem to be the issue. I'm having some difficulty with spatial disruptions in the time-space continuum. These are primatily centered around the apparently variable meaning of the word "now". One might assume that this occurred after the insertion of the capacitor. One might assume that this occurred after the insertion of the capacitor. A most valid and important query. Sooooooo, you had some humming issues and too bright of a tone, you stuck a capacitor somewhere in the guitar, the humming is now completely gone, but the bridge pickup now sounds like the neck, you like the tone of the new middle position a lot, but it's overall way too muddy, you removed the cap and can't remember where it was inserted, You need help in determining where to insert the capacitor, you posted an audio clip to give an idea of what you mean by "muddy"... you posted a clip indicating that it's of the bridge position I can't tell when "when" was or when "now" isn't. It appears to me that the insertion of the capacitor permanently altered the tone of the guitar, even after it was removed. We need a stake in the ground (or at least in the continuum) as a reference point. (There's a reason why I didn't go into dentistry....) So, do you still like the sound of the middle position? ;D "Before" means before inserting the capacitor. "Now" means after and not necessarily "right now." "Right now," the strat is not even in playable condition because it's "in operation" with its pickguard flipped over. Thanks for reminding me to clarify.
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Post by D2o on Jun 12, 2008 13:36:30 GMT -5
R2G, Since you've only posted a dozen or so times so far - are all of your posts are about the same guitar, by chance? If so, maybe this will shed some light: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wiring&thread=1768&page=1In which you wrote Has that changed? ... and this, in which you never revealed if the polarities were as desired: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=pup&thread=2439&page=1You would have a weak and tinny sound if that was the problem, but you never said ... so ... might as well leave no stone unturned. ... and this, which I assume is the same guitar: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wiring&thread=1779&page=1In which Chris said Has that changed? Seeing as your pickguard is off, it sure seems like an opportune time to just start all over, with your original pickups (if you still have them) and see what happens, and then start randomly inserting capacitors, vegetables, dairy products, whatever it takes to replicate your previous result/condition. Then put your new/desired pickups back in and mess about with that. Heck, maybe you just had a poorly soldered wire before, which you inadvertantly fixed and which would account for the reduction of buzzing. Or maybe you didn't run the ground directly to the output jack before, or ... ? ... But first, go over your previous posts and see if maybe now you have set something up differently than you had before. I am shooting in the dark here, but I hope that helps you to spot the difference somehow.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 12, 2008 14:07:39 GMT -5
(There's a reason why I didn't go into dentistry....) Would that be because they don't yet license dentists to operate by remote-telemetry in another city ;D ;D
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 12, 2008 16:14:44 GMT -5
R2G, Seeing as your pickguard is off, it sure seems like an opportune time to just start all over, with your original pickups (if you still have them) and see what happens, and then start randomly inserting capacitors, vegetables, dairy products, whatever it takes to replicate your previous result/condition. Then put your new/desired pickups back in and mess about with that. Heck, maybe you just had a poorly soldered wire before, which you inadvertantly fixed and which would account for the reduction of buzzing. Or maybe you didn't run the ground directly to the output jack before, or ... ? ... But first, go over your previous posts and see if maybe now you have set something up differently than you had before. I am shooting in the dark here, but I hope that helps you to spot the difference somehow. The capacitor is definitely the one cutting the hum (I tested it with the pickguard off). Is it not supposed to? www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2singlecoils_1vol_1switchBased on this wiring, can anyone think of a good place to place the capacitor?
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Post by sumgai on Jun 12, 2008 18:37:26 GMT -5
arteegee, Your problem here is, capacitors can't distinguish between good and bad audio - to a capacitor, hum is the exact same thing as a plucked string. IOW, if you reduce the hum, you're also reducing some/nearly all of the tonality. The tone control (in a normally wired guitar) demonstrates this quite amply. If you turn it down, you lose some of the highs in your signal, but also lose some of the humming. At some point in the control's rotation, you will notice that nearly all of the hum disappears rather suddenly. Not surprisingly, that's also usually the point where your tone is so "bassy" that it's nearly unusable. (Well, with an extreme amount of distortion, it does give you a very "LP-ish/Marshally" effect. Worth trying, just to say you experimented with it. ) The bottom line here is quite simple, and equally quite harsh - if you want less hum, and you use a capacitor to achieve that goal, then you're gonna lose some tone too, there ain't no way 'round that one. Instead, use the "Quieting the Beast" method of shielding your axe, and you'll have much better results with both the reduction in hum, and the ability to control your tone from "too bright" down to "just right". HTH sumgai
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 12, 2008 19:05:23 GMT -5
arteegee, The bottom line here is quite simple, and equally quite harsh - if you want less hum, and you use a capacitor to achieve that goal, then you're gonna lose some tone too, there ain't no way 'round that one. sumgai I do know that, but I thought it was odd that the bridge sounded like the neck. I thought by placing the capacitor somewhere else, I might have been able to bring some of the tone back (even if it meant gaining back some of the hum as well). I guess I was wrong. Thanks for the help.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 12, 2008 20:17:06 GMT -5
r2g, Wait, did you mean to say that the Bridge lost only a little bit of its "brightness", and that it was sort of mellow, like the neck might be? If that's the case, then the capacitor value was too small. But you did say that the thing was "overall way to muddy". We Nutz usually take that to mean that there's no real "life" in the tone. But only a little muddy, that's something up for definition according to the listener, and for all we know, you may have hit on a good "middle of the road" choice in your capacitor value. So, in the interests of not having to open and re-close your guitar about a gazillion times, you can do the following simple experiment. 1) Cut a cheap guitar cord in half; 2) Strip back the shield, and twist the exposed strands together so that they form a lead you can use, as if you had just created a thick wire from many little ones; 3) Strip back the inner conductor, and twist the strands together like above; 4) Do this again with the other half of that same cut-off cable; 5) Twist the two shield leads together, and the two inner conductors together; 6) Plug one end into the amp, and the other into your guitar. Don't let the inner conductor(s) short against the shield(s)! You can now hook a capacitor directly across the two exposed wires. Play with the values until you find one that gives the desired results. The stock value for most Strats is 0.02µfd (or 0.022µfd), but that's with the control rotated all the way down. You may want to start out with 0.005µfd, and move up or down from there. Once you've found the ideal value, simply solder it between the two outer lugs of the volume control, and you're all set! Nope, no one is ever "wrong", only uninformed. Once one has been dragged into the NutzDungeon, it is very difficult indeed to stay uninformed. ;D No problem, that's why we're here! Good Luck! HTH sumgai
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ready2go
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Post by ready2go on Jun 12, 2008 22:58:45 GMT -5
Thanks Sumgai. That's the kind of response I was looking for.
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