arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 27, 2008 3:55:38 GMT -5
Hi I'm new here and need some help.
I have a combination of three pick ups and two potentiometers along with 5 way selector switcher.
Pick ups are 2 Jackson humbuckers along with one double ray OBL pickup ( I don't know the model, T45 or such)
Problem is that after I have wired all pick ups I noticed that OBL sounds a much more quiet than it should.
Jackson humbuckers have one ground and one hot wire while OBL has ground, white and black wire. I've wired black one together with a ground on a potentiometers ground together with a humbuckers ground.
What I'm doing wrong? Please help.
Alex
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Post by newey on Jul 27, 2008 9:41:14 GMT -5
Arsov- A Big Welcome!! But I don't know how much help I can be with this. First: It sounds like the Jackson wiring scheme was obvious, the OBL not so much so. White and black colored wires could be either/or, although convention would make the white wire the hot one. Do you have a wire color chart for this pickup? If not, you may have those wires bass-ackwards. More basically: How do you know how it should sound? Have you had it in another guitar? I would suspect those Jackson HBs are fairly well overwound, maybe the OBL can't compete. Did you put a meter to these pups before installing them? I know, more questions than answers for you . . .
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 27, 2008 12:48:59 GMT -5
Hi Newey, thanks I don't have a wire chart for OBL, but person who sold me ( owner of the guitar shop, 120 km away from my town ) this pickup told me that white wire is a hot one while black is ground. Everything was o.k until I have changed Old no name single coil for another Jackson pickup. Till than OBL as a middle and Jackson as a bridge pickup worked normally. I just wired anther Jackson as the old single coil was wired. ( I'm not so sure, coz I haven't used this single coil to much, but as far as I remember it could happened that this single coil was also a bit quiet back than. ) I haven't meter them before I installed them coz I had to record few guitar lines, so I just changed the pickup, tried few wiring combination, fell in despair and screwed the front plate back. Do I need to meter them? Cheers Alex
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Post by newey on Jul 27, 2008 22:52:55 GMT -5
Given what you say about it working until you added the 2nd Jackson HB, probably not an issue of just differing outputs of the pickups. Sounds more like a wiring issue. First thing I would try is a tap test with a screwdriver or other metallic object, to make sure you've got output from both coils on the OBL.
As far as more definite troubleshooting goes, others will be along to offer more advice.
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 28, 2008 2:41:49 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the strangest part of the story. I taped with screwdriver and every tings looks o.k., but after I putted all back in guitar and strained the strings it turned out that tone is far quieter and totally without sustain. - Sound immediately died away after second or two..
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Post by newey on Jul 28, 2008 5:40:41 GMT -5
Ok, the mystery deepens and I'm quickly running out of suggestions. First, an obvious point, but have you adjusted the height of the OBL? Also, we're to the point here where more info is needed about how you have this wired. A diagram and/or pictures might be helpful. Do you notice this problem only when using the OBL with one of the other pickups, or is the low output and lack of sustain evident when the OBL is used alone (assuming your wiring scheme allows for this)? Finally, as long as you have it all put together and strung up, try ChrisK's Brain Scan procedure and report your results.
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 28, 2008 7:11:11 GMT -5
Of Course Will open it later this day and will attached picture and wiring chart - but it is standard Stratocaster sort of wiring. When OBL is used alone. It is a standard 5-way Strat switcher, so all pickups can be used alone. Huh looks like the whole science. Will read more carefully at the evening ( when kidos will sleep. They have vacation, so me and my wife have a full time job with them. )
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 29, 2008 4:37:38 GMT -5
I opened axe and this is wiring diagram I use guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUSSS5L1101Middle one is OBL. Red wire (not white as I wrote) goes to 5 way switcher while ground and black wire I wired together to the ground of the volume potentiometer.
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Post by D2o on Jul 29, 2008 11:30:18 GMT -5
I opened axe and this is wiring diagram I use guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUSSS5L1101Middle one is OBL. Red wire (not white as I wrote) goes to 5 way switcher while ground and black wire I wired together to the ground of the volume potentiometer. Hi arsov, You have soldered the ground wires to the back of the volume pot shell, correct? (i.e. not to a terminal) Do you actually have two pots, or do you have three and you are just not using one? Here is a link to a SeymourDuncan schematic, so you can see how a guitar that really has one volume and one tone could be wired. Perhaps you can spot some difference by comparing the two: www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=3s_1v_1t_5wI have read one poor review of an OBL pickup, claiming low output - anything is possible I guess, but that does seem like just one guy's rare poor opinion amongst a bunch of glowing reviews ... What if you just pretended you only actually have one volume and one tone and wired it as seen in the link above? Good luck. DD
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 30, 2008 2:22:35 GMT -5
Thanks DD
Yes, the ground was wired to the back of the volume pot shell.
I have only two potentiometer. One Volume, one tone. It is an old Casio Midi guitar. I don't use midi functions for years, but the guitar is pretty good even without all this trumpery.
I study your scheme, but it is not so different from my current. As far as I remember how potentiometers works, it is pretty much identical.
Is there any possibility that phases could messed internally in a pickup? How can I measured the pickups?
Cheers Alex
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Post by D2o on Jul 30, 2008 8:32:48 GMT -5
Thanks DD Yes, the ground was wired to the back of the volume pot shell. I have only two potentiometer. One Volume, one tone. It is an old Casio Midi guitar. I don't use midi functions for years, but the guitar is pretty good even without all this trumpery. I study your scheme, but it is not so different from my current. As far as I remember how potentiometers works, it is pretty much identical. Is there any possibility that phases could messed internally in a pickup? How can I measured the pickups? Cheers Alex You are welcome, Alex, Yes, I think the schematics are about the same as well, but I thought with a different layout it may draw attention to something that may have been missed with only one. Those old Casio guitars are highly rated by Harmony-Central user reviewers. I see that you have already read ChrisK's tutorial: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index....read=1176413665I won't go into the meaning of the numbers here. This is a summary of the physical steps involved in getting the measurements of your pickups using a multimeter: - connect the probes to the “COM” and the “Volt/Ohms” or “Volt/Ohms/mA” inputs of your multimeter - set your multimeter to 20k ohms - touch the tips of the probes together and you should see a "0" on the display. - plug one end of your cord into your guitar. - connect either one of the probes to the tip of the loose end of the guitar cord, and connect the other probe to the sleeve of the guitar cord. - with the volume control at minimum, you should have a reading of "0". - next, with the volume at maximum, you should have a higher reading – it may be around 15000 ohms with a humbucker (in which case your display would say "15.00"). - then set the meter to 2000k ohms. - with the probes still attached, slowly rotate the volume knob from 0 to 10 and record the highest level of resistance (it should be 125 – 250, depending on your pot) – it should occur somewhere near the middle volume. Report your results back to us. DD
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Jul 31, 2008 1:54:18 GMT -5
Hi DD
Jackson Bridge 8.72 OBL 7.23 Jackson Neck 9.62
From 0 - 10 it goes soon to 1 (if I set to 20 k it goes till 12 - 19 and then 1 and just a second befor 10 it goes to the values reported at the top.
I don't now if this play any rule or not.. At the potentiometer for volume there is also one, I'm not sure if it is condensate or such.. it is wired from middle pin to the one of side pin.. It's write 47p on them and I presume it is for some midi function and it was there from the beginning.
Cheers and thanks for your time Alex
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Post by newey on Jul 31, 2008 5:59:22 GMT -5
How did you obtain these numbers? Did you use the brain scan procedure? If so, you need to report the intermediate switch position readings as well. Or did you simply measure each pickup? If so, the wires have to be disconnected to get a true reading. Assuming your numbers are correct, I would have expected higher values for HBs. The OBL is a bit less, but not enough so as to explain your low output problem. It would also be odd that your neck HB would be higher than the bridge. I am not understanding what you mean by this.
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Post by D2o on Jul 31, 2008 9:03:03 GMT -5
Hi Alex, The 47p sounds like it would be a tone capacitor ... except it wouldn't normally be on the volume pot ... You aren't mixing up any pots are you? (I doubt it, but I sure would like to see some pictures, or even a diagram that you can make using the Windows "Paint" tool (click "Start"menu, All Programs, Accessories, Paint). Otherwise, I am feeling somewhat in the dark (and I would imagine newey is also). With respect to your pickup values, I've seen lower. I was working on a cheap guitar with two humbuckers, each of which measured about 5.5 K ohms (about the same as a typical single coil). But that's a rare instance ... we typically see higher readings for humbuckers. When you do measure in positions 2 and 4, I would imagine you should be getting readings of somewhere between 4k ohms and 4.5k ohms, based on the readings you've already given us. As newey pointed out, your neck and bridge pups would normally be the opposite of what you have - the pickup with the higher ohms reading would be at the bridge, where the string vibration is not as great as in the neck position. As far as that goes, the OBL could be in the neck position, and the current bridge pup could be your middle pup. But that doesn't explain why your OBL is weak ... Those are weird things happening on the 20k setting ... it sounds like you are getting readings as high as 19k ohms (correct?) and a second before you get to 10 it gives the readings you've listed, but what happens when you actually get to 10?Can you clarify any of the questions that newey and I have asked? Bear with us, Alex ... it's hard to diagnose over the internet, especially without any visual aid. DD
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Post by ashcatlt on Jul 31, 2008 12:14:15 GMT -5
I've stayed out of this because I honestly don't have anything to add re: the low output. All of my suggestions have been covered above.
I'm pretty sure that capacitor across the volume is meant to be what we call a "treble bleed" capacitor, meant to keep the sound from muddying up as the volume is turned down. It should be wired from the wiper to the lug where the wire comes from the switch, rather than to the other lug, which goes to ground.
In case it helps any...
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Aug 1, 2008 8:02:58 GMT -5
Hey.. thanks for all your replies I'm working on some other things now, so I can't put my guitar back in pieces... later this day or tomorrow I'll open it again and will try some of your suggestions and also will make some photos of whole wiring along with sketch of my wiring. The values I wrote are end values ( at full volume ) I measured it through a chord settled the 5 way switcher to clean position for each pickup, rotating the volume knob. I will disconnected them when I'll open the guitar again ( it is my main recording guitar and I'm working on a project with one lady vocalist at the moment, so I need to make my guitar working for every recording ) Thanks again l8r Alex
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Aug 2, 2008 12:15:32 GMT -5
I spent a half of a day wiring everything. I Think that it could be something with my 5-way switcher. I'll go in a capitol next week, so I will buy a new one. Will let you know after that. Switcher is in a really bad shape, so it can't hurt if I change it anyway l8r Thanks again Alex
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arsov
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Post by arsov on Aug 8, 2008 14:49:28 GMT -5
Fellow who sell those switchers ( the only one here ) is on vacation. So, I'll be back.. l8r
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