|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 11, 2008 15:49:08 GMT -5
Ok, so I've already got an extensively modified Strat - what's next? I want a kill switch. You know, for stutterin' and the like. I've got a little DPDT (I think) mini toggle switch lyin' aboot, and I know logically that it is possible, but I'd rather play it safe first - How would YOU do it? The guy at the guitar store said that I absolutely HAVE to divert the signal to ground, leaving it hanging is a disaster... I really didn't want to start an argument with the dude, he's weiiird... Basically, as I see it, following his advice we should get something like this: The little blue wire at the bottom effectively sends the signal straight to the closest ground point - right there on the other side of the switch. Will it work? EDIT: Please excuse my shocking diagram. It's late in my part of the world, and MS Paint is all I have the patience for. Hope the point gets across clearly enough.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 11, 2008 16:25:22 GMT -5
Warm- I don't have the mad skills of others around here, but it looks good to me FWIW. Although, if I was being picky, your paint diagram makes it look as if the pos wire to the output jack is to the sleeve, and ground to the tip. But I assume that's just a function of the "shocking" nature of your diagram.
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 11, 2008 17:29:01 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm guilty of oversimplification, but this should do the trick just fine: Basically this shorts out the guitar output jack (which is what I'm sure yours does). I just didn't want you to get confused by all those extra wires. It is an SPST switch but feel free to use a DPDT if you want to.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Sept 11, 2008 22:48:06 GMT -5
Actually, wolf's is prefered because it does short the jack. Leaving the jack open makes the wire connected to the tip of the jack into a big long antenna.
On your design, you could connect the wires you've got going to the commons to the terminals directly above them, and move the jumper up to the common. Or, you could use wolf's wiring, ignoring one whole side of the switch and one of the outside lugs on the other side.
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 12, 2008 7:49:53 GMT -5
Looking at this again, I can see either one of two options. Either I short out the jack, so my cable from guitar to amp isn't a huge antenna...
Or I short out the pups (send them to ground - same thing?) like GuitarShopDude told me to.
It doesn't look like I can do both - right?
|
|
|
Post by pete12345 on Sept 12, 2008 8:02:17 GMT -5
Sure you can, in fact, that's the easiest option. All you need to do is wire an SPST switch across the output jack. Disconnecting the pickups and shorting the jack would have the same effect, but be unneccessarily complex, while shorting the pickups and disconnecting the jack would turn the cable into an antenna and be noisy.
The essential part is to short the jack wires together. If you do this, there can be no signal or noise picked up by the amp.
Pete
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 12, 2008 8:13:08 GMT -5
Yes just short out the jack, like Pete and Wolf said, its the simplest and most noise-free option.
One thing I wondered about kill switches, is what would be the most useful type of switch? If it's just for musical effects, it might be slicker to have a small momentary push-button switch, rather than flicking a toggle back and forth It would short out the jack when you push it, and let the sound through when you release it.
John.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Sept 12, 2008 13:48:51 GMT -5
I told you how to modify your original drawing to accomplish both.
|
|
|
Post by pete12345 on Sept 12, 2008 14:46:07 GMT -5
One thing I wondered about kill switches, is what would be the most useful type of switch? If it's just for musical effects, it might be slicker to have a small momentary push-button switch, rather than flicking a toggle back and forth It would short out the jack when you push it, and let the sound through when you release it. I think if you have toggle switches anyway, it might look better to use a biased toggle switch, so it is sprung to one direction. You could then just push it down to kill the sound, and let go to bring it back. If it's intended as an on/off switch, you would want a regular non-biased toggle. whichever you use, the wiring is the same. Pete
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 12, 2008 15:26:21 GMT -5
Sorry - I'm stupid today. I'd like to be able to use the switch as an on/off as well, like for between songs during live performance and stuff... I think... hey, I dunno... I did read about the spring-loaded toggle switch, and it was tempting - but all in all I think I'd rather just go with what I've got. However, being a compulsive modifier, I want to add a level of functionality - Lights! ashcatlt's idea shorts out both pickups and cable... ...leaving me with a spare bit of switch, which can be used to switch on an LED/many LEDs/a floodlight, thus: I think I want an ultra-bight blue LED, does anyone know about these? How much power will I need? EDIT: I really must apologise to you all for my stupidity and time-wastingness of late... It's been a rough week, and somehow I'm really really struggling to think. Bleh. It's ok, though - y'all can do it for me!
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 12, 2008 15:27:16 GMT -5
As far as what type of switch to use, I'd say a subminiature toggle like this would be the best. Being this small would give you the best "actiion" if you wanted to produce stacatto sounds and that sort of thing. A switch like this one would be out of the question don't you think? (I'd say slide switches aren't that good to use either).
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 12, 2008 15:53:13 GMT -5
Well, Warmstrat indicated he wanted to stick with the switch he already has, but if'n one wanted to get really fancy and have both a momentary "kill" as well as an "off" switch for between sets, there are a variety of "On-On-Momentary" toggles available: www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=KFo7JewZbUGH8CfnHk23fQ%3d%3dThis could be wired so the pups were On in the center position, off to the one side, and momentarily "killed" to the other side. However, the above DP3T version is a $17.00 switch. Mouser lists a SP version which is about half that price, but it's out of stock.
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 12, 2008 16:06:43 GMT -5
Yeah. One day when I'm a big rockstar just like daddy, and I design my custom guitar, which will retail for thousands and thousands...
I'll find me some of those on-on-momentary switches.
For now, I'll make do.
Thankee nevertheless - It's great to know that such a thing exists just in case I make it big/win the lottery and am feeling extravagant.
|
|
|
Post by pete12345 on Sept 12, 2008 16:13:01 GMT -5
The 'power on' light looks like a clever bit of wiring. You would need to find a place for a battery and remember to turn the guitar off when you were done playing, but it would add a nice visual effect.
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 12, 2008 16:15:26 GMT -5
Glad to know someone thinks I'm clever today...
*grumble grumble*
Thanks, though. It just seemed like the next most logical thing, once I'd drawn it on a bit of paper.
I reckon I'll have space for a battery in the tremolo spring cavity if I do some clever shuffling.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 12, 2008 16:17:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 12, 2008 17:00:46 GMT -5
Right where it said "frankenstein-lab", you had me hooked!
Or should I say, switched on.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Sept 12, 2008 21:31:29 GMT -5
I'm thinking that it might be a bad idea to let the Nutz around here do yer thinkin fer ye. Never know where you might end up! I'm also thinking your light is going to be on when the guitar is not. Was this your intention?
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 13, 2008 1:44:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I think ashcatlt has a good idea about making the LED light when the kill switch is activated. It would make it seem more amazing if it lit up only when the kill switch was on, particularly if you are going for the stacatto effect. And I thought I'd neaten up the diagram a bit so that you'd only need a Double Pole Single Throw switch. (I suppose that's not much of an advantage - they're probably just as expensive (or close to it) as a DPDT.) Incidentally warmstrat, if you don't want your graphics to have that "smudgy" look, save it as a "gif" instead of a "jpg".
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Sept 13, 2008 5:23:01 GMT -5
.gif? Will do. It was irritating me.
I thought I'd mentioned that I already have the DPDT switch, so I'm going with that.
My current design should leave the LED on when the signal is going through to the output, as I intended - when the switch connects the middle and upper set of contacts, the signal is shorted, and when it connects the lower two, current flows into the LED.
Not so?
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Sept 13, 2008 10:08:23 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry about that. Let's say I was tired, yeah, that's it...
|
|
|
Post by D2o on Sept 13, 2008 16:04:38 GMT -5
I'm surprised you don't hook it up so that it becomes a cigarette lighter when you kill the guitar. Not that I smoke or encourage smoking, but that would be very James Bond, don't you think? Oh! Maybe a remote car starter ... nah, better go with the lighter. Besides, with the kill switch on it's not like you'd be doing anything at that moment ... might as well make yourself useful and maybe impress the chicks while you're at it! You could even perform your own take on "Light My Fire" after you're done lighting their fires ... ... what do you think? (PLEASE don't answer that ... I have an excellent notion of what you think of it! ;D ) Have a looky here, warmstrat. It's not related to a kill switch, as much as it is related to the optical effect ... and the answer to whether the link will help you is "not likely" ... but, hey, you never know. Cheers, D2o
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 13, 2008 16:56:26 GMT -5
A slight risk - IMO, with this LED idea (unless someone has tried it and knows better):
Switching the LED causes some current to flow through wires, which could possibly (ie, I'm not sure) induce a click that can be picked up by the pickups or control wiring. You could test it before instaling by rigging up the LED circuit outside of the guitar, in the general vicinity of the pickguard and see if you hear clicks, particularly at high gain settings.
And wolf, I think there's a part missing from your last diagram!
John
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 13, 2008 20:07:54 GMT -5
John H It looks fine to me. Can I have more of a hint?
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 13, 2008 21:34:04 GMT -5
thinking of a resistor for the LED J
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 14, 2008 0:48:56 GMT -5
John H Okay, the resistor has been added. (see above).
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Jan 19, 2009 16:04:19 GMT -5
I've got the killswitch happily installed now. It works well, except for a pop/click noise on switching on. It's only really noticeable when the signal from the guitar is high - that is, when the strings are at their maximum vibrational amplitude.
Can anyone shed any light on this problem, or perhaps offer a solution? Does anyone have any experience with this?
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Jan 20, 2009 0:14:33 GMT -5
Not too long ago, 4real came through complaining of the same problem on his tele with sustainer and killswitch. I know you didn't do the sustainer yet, but it's still kinda funny. The issue has nothing to do with the sustainer anyway. This quote contains the most likely answer to why it's clicking. Does it click when the sound is first shorted to ground or when it is first turned back on? If the former, the AC waveform output will have some DC ending point (a function of the instantaneous clamping of the signal from instantaneous value of the AC waveform at the moment of switch opening to the ground potential). This fast voltage change will have some possibly significant high frequency content. If the latter, the AC waveform output will have some DC starting point (a function of the instantaneous elevation of the signal from ground potential to the instantaneous value of the AC waveform at the moment of switch opening). This fast voltage change will have some possibly significant high frequency content. And 5ifth ( ;D ;D), mechanical switch contacts bounce! Na-na-na-na-na, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta.......oh-no-no-no-no-no.... So you'll get several "instantaneous elevations and shortings" for free. Some folk might characterize this effect as a "clicking" sound? You can solve this by limiting the high frequencies passed by the use of a low pass filter. Unfortunately, since filters are fairly stupid, they tend to limit ALL high frequencies, including those that we want to keep. I think we got around to a possible solution in that thread as well.
|
|
|
Post by warmstrat on Jan 21, 2009 10:15:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't fancy limiting any high frequencies all the time. I would have a no-load "Delta Tone" pot were it not for the fact that my tone pot is also a push/pull knob, somewhat more complex to modify than a simple variable resistor.
*applies some logical thought*
The problem only occurs when the strings are at or near their maximum possible vibration, that is to say, the signal from the pups is at its highest.
Couldn't one use a capacitor / arrangement of capacitors and other components to smooth out the surge of current? I can't think of exactly how to do it at the moment (I'm on holiday, ok?) but I do remember that capacitors can be used to absorb current surges.
That way, the signal would only be affected if and when the switch was switched "on" during a particularly high amplitude signal from the pups - my precious tone remains unaffected if the switch is simply left on, as it will be, 98% of the time.
Any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Jan 21, 2009 14:48:26 GMT -5
You could probably put the cap between the switch and ground, which would then only connect it when the switch is flipped. In this case that means the guitar is off, right.
2 problems with this:
1) It will only "kill" the frequencies passed by the capacitor, so it'll have to be very small to get anywhere near silence.
2) The capacitor will store energy, which may cause a pop the next time you hit the kill. This can be alleviated with a large parallel resistor, which allows it to bleed off when not connected.
Okay, actually 3 problems:
3) The capacitor will only be connected when in kill position. It probably won't help any pops happening when switching back on.
|
|